Schutzstaffel! Do you think they are still around?

I am curious to know if anyone believes the Schutzstaffel (SS) still exist in any capacity. They were a very powerful organization at the height of their power and it would shock me if they died out completely in the years following WWII. I know there were small bands of ex-SS men that helped each other escape but, did the organization survive? I believe that if they did they would have to be one of the most secret societies in existance today. Share your thoughts.

reply to post by THE-LURKER


It has been suggested that a fair number of SS officers and their ilk fled to South America in the wake of WWII. I think the organization itself would have died out fairly quickly (if not immediately) for a number of reasons:

• Recruiting would be difficult or near impossible, particularly in the years immediately following the war.
  
• They lost both their purpose above (the ones giving the orders who shaped them into what they were) and their purpose below (any power they had over the people).
  

Without direction, without new blood, and without power, I can't see the organization lasting terribly long. A few of the old men could have tried to revive something more recently with a younger generation of followers, but such a movement wouldn't have nearly the power it did in its heyday.


[edit on 7/20/2008 by JoshNorton]

Well, you bring up an interesting point.
I've often wondered if the Nazi party is still in power in some dark corner of a basement somewhere........
There are many people who believed many of the foundations of the Nazis, as Hitler's message was one that was meant to revolutionize Germany.

Originally posted by ThreeDeuce
Well, you bring up an interesting point.
I've often wondered if the Nazi party is still in power in some dark corner of a basement somewhere........

I think the terms "in power" and "in some dark corner of a basement somewhere" are inherently at odds with each other. EXIST? Possibly. POWER? If they're still hiding in the basement, I can't see that they could be in control of much.

Just my 2¢.

reply to post by JoshNorton


You make some extremely valid points. The power and the influence that organization had leads me to believe that in some way the remnants of the SS still function. For it to survive it would have to be carried on through blood I would think and not through the recruitment of new members. It may have just developed into a good ole boys club.

Originally posted by THE-LURKER
For it to survive it would have to be carried on through blood I would think and not through the recruitment of new members.

Care to explore that idea more? Personally, I've never been one for bloodlines conspiracies. Most seem to suggest that privilege always equals power. I'll concede that privilege is inheritable, and even opens more opportunities to one with privilege than to one without. And to bring it around to the ideas of a new generation of SS, I'll even agree that racism and other strongly instilled hatreds (or fears) can, through example and nurture, be passed from one generation to the next.

So saying I'm willing to accept that

1. the SS had wealth
   
2. hatred can be passed from old to young
   

can you suggest to me how being rich, young and angry would facilitate "power"? (No right answer here... just asking you to brainstorm, if you'd like. I'm not seeing a direct causal line from one to the other, but I admit it's not a topic I've given a whole lot of time deliberating, so I'm open to well-formed speculation.)

It's a scary thought the OP has come up with. I think most people think of the SS as not more than an elite, albeit fanatical military organization. Something like a Nazi Green Beret. But this is not entirely accurate.

They were the "chosen ones" of the Nazi vision. There was much more to it than fighting and militance. They were the knights of a new order, that encompassed all aspects of life. They were the warrior-priests of a new and terrible religion.

I say it would be carried on through blood for a couple of reasons.

Jackinthebox kind of hit on it by saying they were the "chosen ones". In the beginning racial purity was one of the demanding requirements to even be considered for the SS. Not all people would or could be considered pure. Ancestry played a huge role in who could join and who could not.

"Meine Ehre heißt Treue " was their motto. I have seen different translations but in a nutshell it translates to Loyalty is my Honor. Who are people most loyal too? We as humans are most loyal to our families. Those of our own kind and our own blood.

The SS became despised the world over even in their homeland. In the early years after the war who could or would provide them support. I believe they would almost have been forced to look out for one another further planting seeds that they may still exist "in some dark corner of a basement somewhere".

I would have to say if they do survive it is a very small and very tight knit group.





[edit on 21-7-2008 by THE-LURKER]

Originally posted by jackinthebox
They were the "chosen ones" of the Nazi vision. There was much more to it than fighting and militance. They were the knights of a new order, that encompassed all aspects of life. They were the warrior-priests of a new and terrible religion.

That is pure MSM myth...the front line death toll alone meant that Himmler had to relax his idealism. They were highly unequipped for combat and fanatical too...dropped like flies. By the end, they were largely old men and boys, not the elite that history has led us to believe them to be.

Kilgore I would only partially agree with your assesment. Towards the end of the war due in large part to their fanatacism, successes on the battlefield, and tyheir ability to do less with more, they became better equipped than the wermacht. They received priority for new equipment. Yes standards were relaxed. Hell there was even a SS unit made up of muslims. I don't believe that the "old men and boys" were any less dedicated to the cause. To be a part of the SS was to be part of something greater than yourself. I believe it's human nature to want to belong and to want to matter. To be part of the bigger picture.
Either way I want to point out that I don't support any type of Nazi cause. I love history and believe that so much of what happened all those years ago still effects us today in untold ways.

reply to post by KilgoreTrout

I was referring more to their height of power and influence. It is true that in the end, the SS was a bastardization of what it once had been.

This does not mean that the "true religion" was lost however. Of course, at this point you would have to delve deep into the more occult aspects of the Nazi ideology and the SS itself.

Originally posted by THE-LURKER
I believe it's human nature to want to belong and to want to matter. To be part of the bigger picture.

I agree with your assessment entirely. Especially with the above. Many of those in the SS at the end of the war, had been through the Hitler youth and were completely indoctrinated to those ideals. It is easy to judge, but 'there but for the grace of god go I'.

The SS were not entirely made up of Germans, many thousands from many different countries actually volunteered to form SS units.
From the attached link you can see the scale of participation from citizens of other countries. I bet a few of them still manage to meet up somewhere.
link:militaryhistory.suite101.com...

Originally posted by jackinthebox
This does not mean that the "true religion" was lost however. Of course, at this point you would have to delve deep into the more occult aspects of the Nazi ideology and the SS itself.

Again a bit of a myth...the average SS man had been 'brainwashed' via exposure to brutality. The Occult and mysticism was of far less importance to the 'average' SS man, the cult of Hitler though was central...but it wears off. The anti-jewishness though still prevails, most when interviewed even today feel that their actions against Jews were justified. This is because the propaganda was based upon existing cultural values and then 'justified' by intensive propaganda.

At Nuremberg, the SS were found guilty of being an 'illegal organisation', and de-nazification was carried out, effectively counter-brainwashing, on those who were interred. Those that 'escaped' this process were largely absorbed into mercenary units, they had little other use, they were permanently damaged, they couldn't return to a normal life. Much like ex-SAS men, trained killers cannot be untrained, unless their minds are wiped of that training.

I have found no evidence of an organised preservation of the ideology, not at SS level at least, but admittedly this is not to say it didn't exist.

I appreciate the replies and the discussion. I think if they are still out there they probably have a longterm plan to return to power. For now I would imagine they are in hiding, just waiting for the right time to make a move. I don't think they(nazi's) would have a rapid rise to power like they did in the past. Not that it really happened overnight. I would imagine it would take a great cataclysm for people to openly give them creedance and to listen to what they present idealisticly. It may not necessarily have to happen at home in Germany for something to happen. I think it would take a great economic depression the likes of which we have never seen and war once again on a global scale. At that point they would once again step up and offer the people a way out from the dark times. They would rise as guardians of the people. Probably against the other various groups that make up the supposed NWO. That is scary thought as if we as people are caught in the middle of two heinous groups.

operation paper clip says it all

reply to post by jay303


I don't think operation paperclip does say it all. That dealt primarily with scientist and what technology we could glean from them for our benefit and use against the soviets. Yes they were members of the Nazi party but , I don't feel they were the most hardcore of the bunch. They were motivated by more academic pursuits. As the SS were motivated by the ideaology and myth of being greater than those around them and being part of something greater than themselves.

reply to post by KilgoreTrout

The Occult and mysticism was of far less importance to the 'average' SS man, the cult of Hitler though was central...but it wears off.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. You can't really say anything "average" about the SS. Most people tend to think of the Waffen-SS, when you say "SS" but the fighting arm was not the only section. Take the Einsatzgruppen or the Ahnenerbe-SS as examples. And let's not forget about the activities at and the plnas for Wewelsburg Castle.

I suppose I could draw a comparison here, with Hitler being the antithesis of Christ. What is more important, Jesus or the Gospel? Hitler or the Doctrine?

The anti-jewishness though still prevails, most when interviewed even today feel that their actions against Jews were justified. This is because the propaganda was based upon existing cultural values and then 'justified' by intensive propaganda.

As was the entire ideology. The anti-Jewish sentiment does not make one a Nazi, but it sure helps. The question is, does the overall Nazi ideology still exist today, in the specific form of a group that directly identifies itself as "SS?" Or has the overall ideology gone on, as a whole, to morph into some new identity? Or has the ideology truly been shattered, so that we only see remnants spring up here and there incorporated in a variety of different groups. Anything from Satanists, to Skinheads, to Christian fundamentalists, to Atheists, to Eugenicists, to Imperialists, etc.

Has the order survived intact? I dare say probably so. But the real question then becomes, to what extent? How far does their power reach? Do they really retain any power at all?

I think the threat, and the truth of the matter, may be far more serious than a bunch of pissed of white kids with nothing better to do than blow # up in their backyard and carve swastikas on park benches.

In the closing stages of WWII, SS members scattered to the corners of the Earth via many different routes.

South America, the MiddleEast, North America, Asia, you get the drift. Mostly it seems they just disappeared into the mists never to be seen again. Or did they? That sort of fanaticism just doesn't decide to sit out the rest of their lives...it's all too likely, in my not so humble opinion, that much of their ideology lives on elsewhere...and will eventually be seen again, if it hasn't already been...

reply to post by seagull


Indeed. Even during the war, the ideology was not exclusive to territory conquered by Hitler's war machine. To what extent the ideology was exported intact may never be known.

What is known, is that Secret Societies such as the Skull and Bones have their roots in Germany. Not to mention the aid rendered to the Nazis by the likes of none other than the Bush family. Their family fortune is rooted in "trading with the enemy" during the war, but they were certainly not alone.