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Off Topic Posting and the Art of Deflection

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posted on Jul, 19 2008 @ 08:40 PM
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Off Topic Posting and the Art of Deflection(Decision 2008)

We on ATS are here because we have something in common. We don't think that everything is on the level. We want answers and we want to know that we aren't the only ones who think this way.

And for the most part, we can collaborate well, as evidenced by the treasure trove of information that we have strung together to paint a picture of our world that is not only true...but not reported by mainstream media.

But for some reason, all of that goes out the window when politics is brought up.

The main problem that I see in these political forums is not the lack of a desire to communicate, but the lack of effective communication.

So Let's Get Back To Basics

What is the election for?

The election is for the American people to decide on a leader who will represent us on an international level and as well consider our opinions and desires when creating policy; economic, social and foriegn.

So what is important when looking at a candidate?

The issues are what's important.

But that is not exactly what we are discussing here in these forums. I won't bring up specific examples, but suffice to say that we have a lot of threads designed to be political commentary that essentially mean nothing more than social gossip.

And social gossip is not important to us. Social gossip is for My Space and CNN Comment threads.

We are here because we know something is not right.

We have been lied to.

The greatest political conspiracy of them all is Bi-Partisanship. Many of us here have fallen hook, line and sinker for the old "divide and conquer" trick.

We bicker back and forth regarding the qualifications of a candidate based on the latest bit of news that was just reported/discovered...which very likely was dropped by a savvy politician/campaign worker specifically to get the ire of the voters.

Seriously. We are a conspiracy site. The politicians are making the laws that further constrict the freedom of thought and movement of the people and we are actually arguing which one of them is better at it?!?...or should be allowed to do it?!?

Are we really going to continue commenting on the fact that people who make, at the least, hundreds of thousands of dollars every few years have our best interests in mind and should represent the will of us...we the working class(es)?

If so, fine. But do so knowing that there are strategies designed to keep you from actually interacting with the reality of the issues and keep you centered on inane details.

Personal Attacks

On the poster or the candidate is a sure fire way to get a response out of someone that will completely divert attention from anything relevant and allow the thread to derail into a non productive discussion of each other. Don't fall for it.

Remember that this is an internet forum and that there is little chance that you will encounter these humans in real life. So, they should have no lasting effect on you. Let the Ad Homs go if you are subjected to them and above all else...do not return them.

There is no such thing as bad publicity

If you support your candidate and come across a thread defaming him/her...don't immediately think that this is a bad thing. There is no need to jump into the middle of the thread as a hero to the cause because the likely occurrence will be a resultant flame war where nothing productive emerges.

And if Brittany Spears can go Platinum in her first week after the shaved head debacle of a few years she had...I am sure that your candidate will be be fine.

Cross Association

You will find in many cases that a poster will interject a comment about another political figure, most commonly the opponent, but in this day and age the reigning POTUS as well.

It is important to stay on topic. When discussing anything regarding the past of a candidate there is zero to little relevance that another candidate, or even Bush has to the topic. It is misleading, it is fallacious reasoning and typically sends the political discussion into yet another series of Ad Hominem attacks that results in yet another non-productive session.

Please Stay On Topic!!!

If there is a differing opinion that is inclusive of discussing emphatically McCain's preference of Can Openers in an Obama thread attempting to determine his Favorite Soup...start a new thread!!!

If you encounter an off topic post of the above described nature...Ignore it!!!

By implicitly allowing these posts through responses and an entertaining of their queries, the discussion suffers as it invariably devolves into another personal jab fest.

Press reported statements from the Candidates

They are almost as worthless as the Ad Hom attacks. Don't place any stock in what is reported and said....because actions speak louder than words.

An analysis of the voting history of the candidate is far and away more valid than what (s)he said in response to a baiting reporter.

The voting logs of our senators, congressmen, governors and more every where. There are bills that were signed which benefited corporate entities (Wire Tap Retroactive Immunity Bill) and do any of us think that is going to change because the names are different?

Let's do what we do best...talk about the relevant issues...the stone cold facts and let's not give weight to the posters who toss Ad Hominems as if they were confetti. Let's not commit the same nonproductive acts.

Remember that regardless of our respective social, religious, political and professional views, we are all here to engage in productive discussion.

Let's not argue personal slights perceived against either McCain or Obama...let them defend themselves for crying out loud. Let's rather analyze their professional history and determine their respective qualifications based on their records.

[edit on 19-7-2008 by MemoryShock]




posted on Jul, 19 2008 @ 10:51 PM
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reply to post by MemoryShock
 


While I appreciate and agree with your point of view, not all people within the ATS community as well as the rest of society do. Some people seem to enjoy being antagonistic, a drama Queen, and or just plain unintelligent in expressing their opinions.

I'm not specifying anyone in particular, as this is not an attack in the least.

The particular topic of politics is of course troubling as well as disturbing in that our politicians lie, cheat, and steal from us the very things they are supposed to be protecting us to have and keep safe. Put anything into that contextual statement there, if you wish, it fits either political party in some way, shape, or form.

Off topic posting, and the Art of Deflection is just what ATS needs in this time of political strife, so I salute you MemoryShock for opening this area to discuss here.



posted on Jul, 19 2008 @ 10:56 PM
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reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


The antagonistic is what is being highlighted here.

Don't fall for it. Do not let silly and inane responses sway you from your analysis of the issues. I do not doubt that the posts that are being dissuaded here are going to stop.

But we do need a resource by which we cite a recognition of such.

The rules of logic are important.

Just because our candidates have a ton of money and the mainstream media's ear does not mean that we should follow suit.

Examine why 'you' are reacting to a particular post. And then respond with substantial fact...not emotional reaction.

That is all that this thread is requesting...



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 12:35 AM
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I've had several people point out this thread to me. I'm glad to see this discussion. It takes a thick hide to thrive on politics. Too many people suffer from the mistaken impression that they've just gotta be "right." Some times you just gotta agree to disagree, and THAT is no conspiracy.



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 12:41 AM
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reply to post by MemoryShock
 


MemoryShock, I think we need one of these types of threads, for all Forum's, not just the Decision 2008 one.

I've recently had troubles in someone going so far off topic, so as to almost totally de-rail it, and I set all the parameters on purpose, so it should never have happened. That person was an agitator, plain and simple.

Politics is not the only thing, especially the current upcoming 2008 election, that gets people bent out of shape.

Again, I love this thread on the Decision 2008 topic, it works.

Why anyone would want to sway someone to their point of view for any other reason than pure and simple selfishness, stupidity, and hi-jacking of someone's beliefs, is beyond Me.



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 02:00 AM
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Originally posted by MemoryShock
The greatest political conspiracy of them all is Bi-Partisanship. Many of us here have fallen hook, line and sinker for the old "divide and conquer" trick.

With much respect and God knows I need a Memory Shock every now and then, but I don't buy into this bit where politics is two sides of the same coin. This election is nothing short than the direction that we will take moving forward as a country.

If the republicans win, then we will fall toward a fascist state.

if the democrats win then we will gravitate toward a more humane society.

If the motive of your comment were due to anything I have said in a number of many threads, you can be assured that they are genuine and without the cause of distraction or derailment.

I know that there are members here to create the distraction that you describe, but they are easily seen for what they are.

Let's give our membership a little more credit to determine the truth. It has worked pretty well for some time now. No need to worry.



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 02:29 AM
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Originally posted by Hal9000
This election is nothing short than the direction that we will take moving forward as a country.


I disagree. It has already been decided. Why else would the mainstream media not report prolifically the impeachment process brought against the current administration.



If the republicans win, then we will fall toward a fascist state.

if the democrats win then we will gravitate toward a more humane society.


Wrong. See the initial post in this thread. Bi-Partisanship is the tool. What about classism?



If the motive of your comment were due to anything I have said in a number of many threads, you can be assured that they are genuine and without the cause of distraction or derailment


You were not the impetus for this thread...




Let's give our membership a little more credit to determine the truth.

This thread is a reminder for the credit that I give the people who post here...let's determine the truth...



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 08:18 AM
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But that is not exactly what we are discussing here in these forums. I won't bring up specific examples, but suffice to say that we have a lot of threads designed to be political commentary that essentially mean nothing more than social gossip.


Who decides what is an issue and what is "social gossip"? In my experience, even that tends to fall along party lines.



If the republicans win, then we will fall toward a fascist state.

if the democrats win then we will gravitate toward a more humane society.




[edit on 20-7-2008 by Dronetek]



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 08:31 AM
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I was the first one to star and flag this thread. Honestly, there was just nothing else to add. You said it all so completely.

Just wanted to lend my support to the *Bump* theory.



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 08:39 AM
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reply to post by MemoryShock
 


Can I add a few to your post MemoryShock?

"Drama"

"I'm right and everyone else is wrong"

"I have nothing to say, but I have to say something"

And YES... I am as guilty as anyone, but my friend MemoryShock is completely correct.

Off topic posting, Deflection and Derailing Threads serves no real purpose except to create drama. While a little drama is fun at times, politically it only exemplifies our inability to agree on anything; even agreeing to disagree.

We are not going to change everyone's minds. That is a FACT... We are not supposed to be able to. That is also a FACT.

We can only give our opinions, make factual comments and as MemoryShock stated...

Stay on Topic

Good reminder, Great Thread

Semper



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 08:41 AM
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There is no republican or democrats there is just the powers that be, everything else is just a illusion, the primaries are to get you excited about the ones they have chosen to win.

The PTB own the media and the media tells you the choices you have based on coverage. The ones the PTB consider a threat get very little air time or votes for that matter.

It's just as fake as the freedoms we enjoy.

*edit to add* I'm not voting because the winners have already been decided.

[edit on 20-7-2008 by LDragonFire]

[edit on 20-7-2008 by LDragonFire]

Gosh I hope this was on topic!!!!

[edit on 20-7-2008 by LDragonFire]



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 11:06 AM
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People, what MemoryShock is asking is to cut bickering and backbiting. This just adds noise that the thread analyzers have to filter out. Data from here are used to determine social, political and economic patterns that provide data on trends. Corporations love this data to determine where to spend their ad dollars and research monies. It's all part of the same game that's being played everywhere but these kind of conspiracies are what makes ATS/BTS/PTS great places to share the fun!



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 11:14 AM
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I really appreciate this thread. Thank you so much.


Originally posted by LDragonFire
I'm not voting because the winners have already been decided.


I have some questions about this position and have posted in the "Politics of Self-Responsibility" thread because I don't want to take this one off topic.
I would appreciate any input from people who feel and know that the above quote from LDragonFire is 100% true. Thanks.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 06:42 PM
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Originally posted by Dronetek
Who decides what is an issue and what is "social gossip"? In my experience, even that tends to fall along party lines.


Social gossip is anything that can be qualified as opinion.

The whole, McCain said this, Obama said this in personal interviews does not necessitate the future action of wither individual, or anyone for that matter.

So I disagree that social gossip tends to be a party line issue at all. It is a universal trait. And that is the trap. Instead of focusing on the very real immunity given to criminal activity recently, there is more attention being given to rumours of George W. Bush and Laura getting a divorce.

Off hand comments about any political figure is irrelevant. Their actions should be the only thing we are concerned with. How they voted and what they support through experienced proof.

antar...thanks...


semper...good additions...


Benevolent Heretic...
...In my opinion, it's been planned.



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 08:11 PM
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Personally - im split in two directions on this:

and my "splitness" only applies to the political boards

I agree with memoryshock in this OP. I agree with what semper said (and i too am guilty of these infractions)



The other side of me says:

Sometimes a thread gets to be rather boring, dull, and or redundant, and a little side-track (not derail) seems to be in order.

Of course this is JUST how i personally feel about it.

For some people (and im sure im included in this category) when you see someone being blatantly stupid (beyond ignorant) in a particular thread, its like an addiction to be the first person to make this person seem REALLY stupid.

Only when in retrospect can we see that everyone already saw what we saw, and we ourselves looked dumb for falling into the troll's trap.

Its a tough decision to make
, because yo'ure never sure how your post will be viewed, so if you choose to never post, how will you ever know


Im sure i sound stupid now...so allow me to run off and sulk
]



edit to add:

I guess what im trying to say is, as it pertains to political boards only:

Most every disagreeance found in these political threads could be misconstrued as a derailment (in my opinion)

If you post "Obama smokes CRACK" and someone replies "yeah, well McCain shoots heroine" --- then isnt that technically a derailment post


Im not trying to fight with the mods on this, i swear im not...its just how i view things, so my confusion lies with

other than BLATANT trolling (IE
Hey - you are racist if you dont vote for Barack Obama you KKK loving son of a *snip*

how do you draw the line for political 'derailment'
as most of political discussion entails "well yeah, my candidate did that, but your candidate did this! SO! HE STARTED IT! MOM!"


[edit on 7/20/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 08:49 PM
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reply to post by MemoryShock
 



Off hand comments about any political figure is irrelevant. Their actions should be the only thing we are concerned with. How they voted and what they support through experienced proof.


Whoa there.... I think that's taking it a little too far. I like hearing people's biased opinions! I've been known to express my own bias, too, on occasion
. And I think that non-'factual' statements can be a valuable contribution to an objective discussion.

Why? Because, in order to achieve wider understanding, it's necessary to listen, even when you don't agree. How else can we have opportunity to increase open-mindedness? I like to think I try and listen to all points of view, even those I don't agree with. Sometimes, especially those I don't agree with. If I can re-cast my own opinions into the terms of those I presumed I 'disagreed' with, then I feel that's a much more valuable achievement that simply agreeing on 'facts', with 'proof'. You know, sort of building bridges across false chasms of polarized opinion.

What's not useful is when opinions become absolute and entrenched. Then, discussion turns into battle, and nothing is achieved. We all need to recognize and acknowledge when that is happening, both with ourselves, and with others, regardless of idealogical agreement. And no blame -- we're all guilty of such from time to time.

So, IMHO, yes we should keep focused on factual agreement -- that's always a necessary basis. But limit expression of opinions, right from the get-go, for fear of diversion? Please, no.



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 08:55 PM
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Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
If you post "Obama smokes CRACK" and someone replies "yeah, well McCain shoots heroine" --- then isnt that technically a derailment post


*snip*

how do you draw the line for political 'derailment'
as most of political discussion entails "well yeah, my candidate did that, but your candidate did this! SO! HE STARTED IT! MOM!"


You've got it. THAT is the problem. Logical debate goes out the window. The thread suffers, the board suffers and the mudslinging that rational people detest continues. It's a blight. Childish.



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 08:56 PM
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reply to post by Ian McLean
 


An excellent addendum, Ian...


My intent was to give attention to reactionary posts; my expression did not allow for reasoned opinion.

A great reminder.



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 09:32 PM
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Thanks.

The razzle dazzle 2 step seems to be the norm for the more succinct posters.

The subhuman cretins resort primarily to vitriolic attacks intended to incite and subvert logic into the realm of visceral reaction instead of reasoned responses.

And yes I too have sometimes fed into this tactic.

But I am taking meds now.



posted on Jul, 20 2008 @ 09:42 PM
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reply to post by MemoryShock
 

You lost me with your comment on how it is already decided and MSM is not covering the impeachment, but being off topic, I guess we can cover that some other time.

All of what you said is your own opinion and if it were true, which I don't believe, then not only is it pointless to argue about the election, but we really wouldn't have any reason to talk about the election at all.

I do understand one of the points you are making and agree that derailing posts are better left ignored.



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