JSO

what memoryshock is saying is that


"McCains third cousins roommate from his second year in College just told me ____________________________ (insert juicy gossip story here) is found in the MSM every year, ad nauseum. And then people come here and post it, taking it to be 100% true, creating bitter "rivalries" amongst members who blindly believe it and people who openly oppose it.


Something that someone said to someone else that has no factual proof to back it up is called gossip. Not issues.

And ISSUE is McCains open opposition to the MLK holiday for the last 25 years.

and GOSSIP is Obama's brother's comments getting edited to make the world believe he is Muslim.



Big difference there

Great thread, MS. Although I try to understand where the 'deflectors' are coming from and that sometimes it is necessary to compare/contrast a view currently under fire with its opposing view, it can be very frustrating.

It would be nice if we could extend the scope, though. It seems you cannot discuss anything political or religious without someone saying, 'But what about the other guys!?' Not trying to be a whiner and I won't mention it again but it is a very frustrating and frequent occurrence in the forums dealing with religion. It is very rare as it stands that a religion other than Christianity is being discussed. However, in just about every thread it all comes back to Christianity and the thread is derailed. Instead of learning about the religion in question as was my original interest, we end up getting sucked into discussing Christianity off topic and the thread turns into a Bible lesson.

Not warn-worthy or anything but deflection is a pain. And I am only using the above as an example because that is what I notice the most. I've seen the same thing happen with liberalism/conservatism, democrat/republican, Christianity/Islam/Atheism, Creationism/Evolution, Pro-government/Anti-government, Domestic/Foreign, America/Europe/Middle East, etc. to infinity. Again, if it discussion religion or politics, it always seems to go back to 'the other guys.' lol

I'm just saying. Is it possible to extend the scope or is this put in place strictly due to the heat dealing with 2008 elections? If so, that's fine. I just wanted to add my two cents.

Originally posted by jsobecky
The most obvious examples are the deflection of any country's bad behavior back onto the US, in my eyes.

Yes, I see that happen all the time as well. You talk about the atrocities occurring in other countries and it always comes back to all the wrongs America has done. Good point.

Perhaps we can make it a guideline across the board for ATS/BTS. On top of the example you mention, here are some more I frequently see (and have also been guilty of myself at times):

Atheist: Let's discuss all the atrocities religion has caused.
Theist: Oh but let's not forget the atrocities of secular states!
Vice Versa

Creationist: Let's discuss the flaws of evolution.
Evolutionist: But what about the holes in creationism?
Vice Versa

Religion A follower: [Some other religion] has such and such conspiracy.
Religion B follower: What about YOUR religion!

Conservative: The liberals did this and it is stupid.
Liberal: What about what the conservatives do!
Vice Versa

Democrat: The republicans did this and it is stupid.
Republican: What about what the democrats do!
Vice Versa

Obama Follower: McCain did this.
McCain follower: Oh ya well Obama did this!
Vice Versa



The two most frustrating examples for me personally are the religious and origins deflections. Especially creationism. I know so little about it and would really like to read about the evidence but it seems like the creationists, and bless their hearts I am one myself and have done the same thing, will turn the tables to attack evolution instead. Or I know so little about Eastern religions and minor religions and would love to read about them but it all comes back to the Abrahamic faiths. It is very frustrating. lol

I'm trying to be very fair here and can admit to both sides doing it, myself included. I'm not trying to just say Conservative Christian Republican American Creationists are the innocent victims. We're all guilty of doing this. Me, my friends, my opponents, newbies and old timers.

The question is, how can we work together to solve the problem?

[edit on 7/21/2008 by AshleyD]

Originally posted by AshleyD
The question is, how can we work together to solve the problem?

If "solving the problem" means keeping every thread on topic 100% of the time, then that's not going to happen. However, the very best tool in your toolbox is the power of ignore. And I don't necessarily mean the ignore button. I mean the will-power to read a post that is just so ignorant you want to scream - or post a rebuttal to set them straight, but instead, you just move on without responding to them at all.

If we all did that, even 80% of the time, then threads could keep on topic for the most part. You can still discuss the side of the issue that you want to. If only one other person in the thread is willing to talk with you and stay on topic, they you can have your discussion while the "baiters" swirl around you trying to get attention.

It's really very powerful.

What this thread is about is "We need to be nice and civil."

What happened to state your opinion and let the chips fall where they may?"

Why is everyone so darned sensitive? Talk. Talk never hurt.

State your thought and let the others respond. If they don't like your thought they will ignore you or "shoot back." So what?

Originally posted by crmanager
What this thread is about is "We need to be nice and civil."

What happened to state your opinion and let the chips fall where they may?"

Why is everyone so darned sensitive? Talk. Talk never hurt.

State your thought and let the others respond. If they don't like your thought they will ignore you or "shoot back." So what?

Actually, what this thread is about is

"Before you post, stop, think (if possible), does what I am about to send to the ATS actually contribute, or is it more of what has already been said. Is it just an emotional reaction to post, or will I be able to bring any clarity to an issue"

It is also about

"Stop with the schoolyard antics which have NOTHING to do with any issue"

Another thing is opening a negative press thread on a specific Candidate with "See, I told you this guy is a moron"


Every method of communication requires protocols, which if not observed cause the communication to fail. Memoryshock is attempting to remind us of those protocols, for our own benefit, while at the same time raising the IQ level of the discussions in this forum.


For example, one of these protocols would be "Can I understand where the poster is coming from who I wish to correct in some way? If I can, start from that perspective. If I can't understand where they are coming from and feel as if they are complete morons... refrain from posting altogether."



[edit on 22-7-2008 by Quazga]

No, most of the people here are paranoid; people that string together a lot of unrelated things to make it into a conspiracy; refuse to believe anything but their own weird theories; and generally can't get along in the real world.

You see alien spaceships hidden behind every haystack; conspiracy in every cloud; and of course the government is always out to get YOU.

It would never occur to most of the people here that they are just sick. They seek to explain away THEIR FAILURES IN LIFE, but seeing conspiracy all around them.

After all, that is the only explanation why they aren't millionaires, right? Or that their faster-than-light spaceship hasn't been put into all of the worlds airlines. Why we don't all have a nuclear reactor in our basement; a car that get 700 miles per gallon with 800 horsepower; and why our sons/daughters are not always the most successful. It's because the government, or some particular group, has thwarted their every effort in life.

The oil companies suppress every invention that would save energy. After all, some guy said he invented this device that gave perpetual energy, but Shell oil bought the rights and held it off the market it, didn't they?

Of course the fact that no such patent was ever issued means nothing.

The fact that there is absolutely not one shred of physical evidence that any alien spaceship ever visited earth means nothing. Only the conspiracy means something.

Yep. everyone that habituates this web site is perfectly normal, right?

here's another question i have


Should the author of the OP be allowed to dictate the flow of the thread?

In other words, should the OP be allowed to ... alter the course that he or she desires?

IE: If its about obama, and suddenly shifts to mccain, is that considered "off topic posting" if the OP initiated the shift?

The Original Poster should have control of his or her thread. That is, they should have posted the thread and decided that it was a topic that he or she felt strongly enough about...and as well was knowledgeable enough about...that the course of conversation would not stray, that the course of discussion would remain.

That requires an even mind and a dedication to the thread.

The Original Poster should not police their thread...he or she must want their thread.

Perfect worlds and all that....

I have some questions for the Mods here:

1. Is it legit to post Official Campaign Ads in the Decision 2008 Forum?

2. Is it legit to post videos from Mainstream News Sources (ie, C-Span) of Campaign supporters (such as U.S. Representatives) speaking about their Candidates?

3. It is legit to post videos of Candidates from their Campaign Rallies?


If yes to any of the above, what are the guidelines for the context in which they must be posted?