I have been a Christian all my life...

Originally posted by SilentGem
Sigh, perhaps I worded my self poorly but quantum mechanics is a fundamental branch of physics. It’s the study of the world on a very small scale. It’s not something you apply to particles, perhaps you were confused by my use of the word ‘assistance’?

no, i was not confused, your use of the word assistance was spot on. you are talking about the spontaneous creation of particles using what? PRE existing energy. and thats my point. the only way something happens is if SOMETHING happens to SOMETHING. whether you know what that something is or not.

Science is not built on the fundamental concept of cause and effect. Science is built upon observations and experimentation. Your point here is a non-sequitur. I’ll quote Wikipedia:

Scientific method refers to the body of techniques for investigating phenomena, acquiring new knowledge, or correcting and integrating previous knowledge. It is based on gathering observable, empirical and measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning.[1] A scientific method consists of the collection of data through observation and experimentation, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses.

you know alot about science and yet you dont know what causality is?

en.wikipedia.org...

I’ve already demonstrated to you that something can in fact come from nothing. Saying it is impossible does not make it so.

what you have is a phenomenon that happens involving pre-existing energy. take away the energy, the phenomenon disappears.

It is not. But we have evidence in nature of particles popping into existence from nothing. Alas absolutely no evidence has been collected to support the existence of any Gods(s).

what counts as evidence for you? complexity of the universe? obvious design of the first life? dna? chariot parts in the red sea? perhaps precambrian shells that cover the entire face of the earth (evidence of a global flood)? maybe prophecies that have come true? none of these count as evidence? i can see you saying they dont count as definitive proof of god, but not even to count it as evidence?

Without empirical evidence I would say the probability for either possibility is equally low. How would you go about calculating such probability anyway? The answer is you cannot, it’s just based upon human intuition, which has been proven to be extremely poor with numbers and probability in general.

im going to take the book "war and peace", im going to take the binding off and then throw the pages in the air. i bet you 500,000 euros that they will land in page order in the first 100 tries. would you take that bet? youd be stupid not to.

the probability of a god is at least existent. probability of a universe coming from absolute nothing = 0 to 0. impossible. nothing there, nothing to cause. no cause, no effect. simple

The irony here is that theists cannot see the contradiction they are making by such a claim; If God is something then God can not come from nothing. So to summarize it is a non-answer.

By making use of the scientific method we are increasing the knowledge and information available to humankind and as such more and more secrets of the universe will be unlocked as time passes. This is a far more reasonable alternative than putting all your faith in a 2000 year old book written by men for men.

anyone who suggests that god came into existence from nothing is an idiot. any logical reasonable thinking human being would be forced to admit that something has to have always existed. whether that something is god or the universe.

Originally posted by TheB1ueSoldier
Please watch this video then. Its narrated by a pretty goofy guy, but he's really an astrophysicist from NASA. Very interesting and thought provoking.
uk.youtube.com...

lol not really that thought provoking.

i think the first point he brings is how alot of the universe would instantly kill us, but then that raises the question of why the oasis?

he brings up natural disasters, but the bible says that thats something god corrects for perfect man.

he brings up ailments, again, consequence for adam's sin.

if you take th bible out of the equation, yes these are poor "designs" but the bible does touch on these things

reply to post by shug7272

Deuteronomy 24:7
If a man is caught kidnapping one of his brother Israelites and treats him as a slave or sells him, the kidnapper must die. You must purge the evil from among you.

I do not know if this answers your question.
I think it has been an accepted practice in almost all historical coutures to take slaves from their defeated enemies.
This may be preferable than pure genocide.
Now, there are different ways to treat your slaves but I think the Israelites could be considered to have been as ethical in that respect as could be expected, given the circumstances.

[edit on 27-7-2008 by jmdewey60]

reply to post by shug7272


SHUG 272

Perhaps you should ask yourself this -

Is there anything in the bible that god asks me to think or do, that should I comply I would feel ashamed or embarresed of.

If the answer is yes then clearly this cannot have been written, commanded or inspired by a creator of complete love.


If the answer is no then you dont have a problem until other people let you konw you are hurting or offfending them.

Perhaps you should have a long think about why you started believing what the bibles says to begin with. Who actually told you this was the word of the creator in the first place etc etc.

Perhaps the most important thing for you right now is under no circumstances feel guilty about quetioning your belief system, if you were'nt designed to question you simple would,t question.

On a positive note - here's potentially welcoming you to the real world.