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ATS promotes hate not just alternative thought

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posted on Jul, 15 2008 @ 12:50 PM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
The gravedancer's tactics were supported and encouraged, under the guise of "free speech". Any opposing opinions were squashed and ridiculed.


Opposing opinions were NOT squashed and ridiculed. People who were saddened at Snow's death were allowed to express it fully. They just weren't allowed to squash the opinions of the "gravedancers".




posted on Jul, 15 2008 @ 01:15 PM
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Yes I agree that the people who are saying that they are glad that Tony Snow is dead should be allowed to express that opinion. I also don't think that them saying that encourages hate because we should all be old enough to know better and to form our own opinions and reasoning when we see something like that.

But all in all, MY opinion is that if you wish someone dead because you disagree with them, you are just making yourself look like a very sad and petty person.



posted on Jul, 15 2008 @ 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Exactly! Even if those other opinions are based on hatred. I totally agree with your post. But it can be read 2 ways. People who are glad about Snows death only have a different opinion than others. Even that opinion deserves to be expressed.


Dissenting opinions have the right to be expressed. They have no inherent right to be respected when they are hateful. We are not robots, after all. We are human beings.



posted on Jul, 15 2008 @ 02:03 PM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
They have no inherent right to be respected when they are hateful.


Even if those hateful feelings are about someone who everyone hates? Example Charles Manson?
Or Zarkawi? When Zarkawi died, people danced on his grave, but that appears to be ok.

I don't personally think ANY opinions have the right to be respected. I respect people, not opinions.



posted on Jul, 15 2008 @ 08:56 PM
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Originally posted by snowflake_obsidian
MY opinion is that if you wish someone dead because you disagree with them, you are just making yourself look like a very sad and petty person.


I agree. That is my opinion as well.

I did not wish Tony Snow death, nor was I happy that he died because I disagree with him. I happen to believe that he was associated with some bad people who have done some bad things, and he participated and helped cover up those actions. Therefore, I believe he himself is a bad person.

I don't think he's bad for his politics. I think he's bad for his actions. It seems some people in this thread would like to twist the words of us gravedancers and misrepresent our opinion.

It wasn't his politics. It was his actions. Much like how people hate serial killers or terrorists. They don't hate them because they disagree with them. They hate them for their actions.

Somehow its alright to gravedance on them when they die, but it is not alright to gravedance on Americans or public figures, even if they themselves have done bad things to good people in their lives.

If others respect him, thats fine. I have no problem with that. But me, personally, I feel he didn't deserve my respect, and I showed that.



posted on Jul, 16 2008 @ 07:08 AM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 



Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by jsobecky
They have no inherent right to be respected when they are hateful.


Even if those hateful feelings are about someone who everyone hates? Example Charles Manson?
Or Zarkawi? When Zarkawi died, people danced on his grave, but that appears to be ok.


You're just mincing words. Zarqawi was a murderer. He slit throats for fun. He bombed weddings. Yet there are those misguided people who have equated him with Tony Snow.

You and others are just trying to make the case for kumbaya, we're all the same, just a matter of degree, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, love and peace.

That's not the world we live in. At some point we have to grow up and make judgments. Judgments like, drugs are bad for you. Bullying is wrong. Etc. Because the next generation looks to us to sort things out.

The reason there is so much confusion, so much disrespect, from the younger generation is that their elders have abdicated their responsibilities, out of weakness. Afraid to be unpopular. Afraid to say "I am right on this one".


As for Tony Snow, to disrespect him because he worked as Bush's Press Secretary is absurd and stupid. That doesn't mean he is a war criminal, as some would apply. Stupid, stupid guilt by association, the very same stuff you personally have railed about when it comes to Obama.



posted on Jul, 16 2008 @ 08:14 AM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
You and others are just trying to make the case for kumbaya, we're all the same, just a matter of degree, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, love and peace.


Well, to a degree, I am. You're right. I don't know about the kumbaya part, but I do think one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. And our government has been participating in terrorist activities. And I DO believe in love and peace. Sorry if that offends you.


If a group of people commit a crime and in the process, they kill a bunch of people, they are ALL guilty, even if one of them didn't have a gun. If he just drove the car or lied in court, he's still part of the gang and he is guilty. Not just by association, but because he helped and participated in the crime.



The reason there is so much confusion, so much disrespect, from the younger generation is that their elders have abdicated their responsibilities, out of weakness.


What younger generation? I'm 50 years old!
It's not a matter of age or maturity, jsobecky, it's a matter of opinion. You can look for a reason that makes you more mature or on more solid ground so your opinion can be the "right" one, but the truth is that people of all ages and maturity levels have different opinions and those opinions are valid. Just like yours.


And I'm abdicating no responsibility. In fact, I am standing up and taking responsibility for calling out corruption when I see it. I'm setting a good example for the young people. Speak your mind! Your Truth. Don't be afraid to go against the groupthink.

[quote
As for Tony Snow, to disrespect him because he worked as Bush's Press Secretary is absurd and stupid.

But it's NOT because he was Bush's Press Secretary. You've been told this but you apparently don't believe it. I can't change that. It's not guilt by association. It's because of who Tony Snow WAS. It's because of the actions HE took, the lies HE told, the cover-ups HE participated in, the people who died because HE was an informed member of the criminal group and participated in the crimes.

Scott McClellen, he was NOT.

As I have said, we're not going to agree on this, but when you say my feelings about Snow are because of Bush, and that I'm weak and irresponsible or part of the younger generation (while I'm flattered), I must set the record straight.



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