McCain Lies About being POW reciting Steelers Defensive Line

McCain Lies About being POW reciting Steelers Defensive Line

www.thepittsburghchannel.com

McCain recently told a local television reporter that as a prisoner of war in Viet Nam he recited the Steelers defensive line when pressured to name the men in his squadron.

McCain was captured after his plane was shot down in the fall of 1967.

In his autobiography "Faith of My Fathers," the Arizona Senator claimed he gave the names of the Green Bay Packers' offensive line.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Well this is one of your candidates. he lied about while being a POW in Vietnam he recited to the VC the Pittsburgh Steelers defensive line, which in fact he stated in a book he recited the Greenbay Packers line.

I wonder however, if he lied about something stupidly simple like this. What else has he lied about?

(A bit of background on the steelers. They sucked when he was a POW. Nobody knew anything about them unless they were from pgh or betting. They didn't get good untill the 70s when the Steel Curtain was made.)

www.thepittsburghchannel.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Whilst i'm not a fan of McCain's, i have to think that this could just be a simple case of forgetting the details of something that happened many years ago. Not a major crime or conspiracy.

He is recalling something that happened in 1967, thats over 40 years ago.

Not long ago i was telling someone about an incident i was involved in where a friend of mine was shot dead during active service. Later that day i realised that i'd some of the details wrong, i guess over the years the memories are'nt as fresh and you forget certain points.

That does'nt mean i lied.

That was 15 years ago. Not sure how i'd be recalling an event 40 years ago. (If i was old enough to have 40 years of life to recall that is ).

CX.

Or it can be that he is trying to appeal to a paticular type of voter..

I would pick what I said..

Then again if i wanted I could probably find a million and 1 things he has lied about...

I am not going to cause I really don't care.. I added this for the people who do plan to vote for him..

Maybe McCain had remembered a couple of teams defensive line? Since he was in Pittsburgh he just happened to mention the Steelers.

This is nothing but an overzealous reporter thinking he discovered a "gotcha" moment. You know how reporters are.

I doubt that McCain recited the Steeler line. The Pittsburgh Steelers were not 'winners' until after McCain returned from Vietnam. The Steelers only started to get 'good' in 1970, while McCain was held captive. The Green Bay Packers however were 'winners' before he left. I think it is more plausible that McCain either told his captors the names of the Packers, or actually told his captors the actual names of his comrades. I think it it is a case of McCain 'sculpting' his own truth to try to stay as modern and portray the image of winner. But unless McCain was a Steeler Superfan (If he was, why mention the Packers in his book?) he probably would not have even known the names of the line for the Steelers.

Unless of course his captors let him watch football on TV as a reward for helping them with their propaganda.
DocMoreau

During the Vietnam War, he nearly lost his life in the 1967 USS Forrestal fire. Later that year while on a bombing mission over North Vietnam, he was shot down, badly injured, and captured as a prisoner of war by the North Vietnamese. He was held from 1967 to 1973, experiencing episodes of torture and refusing an out-of-sequence early repatriation offer; his war wounds would leave him with lifelong physical limitations.

en.wikipedia.org...

From 1974 to 1979 the franchise became the first NFL franchise to win four Super Bowl titles in six seasons, a feat which is yet to be matched.

The Steelers' history of bad luck changed with the hiring of coach Chuck Noll for the 1969 season. Noll's most remarkable talent was in his draft selections, taking Hall of Famers "Mean" Joe Greene in 1969, Terry Bradshaw and Mel Blount in 1970, Jack Ham in 1971, Franco Harris in 1972,[11] and finally, in 1974, pulled off the incredible feat of selecting four Hall of Famers in one draft year, Mike Webster, Lynn Swann, John Stallworth, and Jack Lambert.[12] The Pittsburgh Steelers' 1974 draft has gone down in NFL history as the best ever, considering no other team has ever drafted four future Hall of Famers in one year. The players drafted in the early '70s formed the base of one of the greatest dynasties in NFL history, making the playoffs in eight seasons and becoming the only team in NFL history to win four Super Bowls in six years, as well as the first to win more than two.

en.wikipedia.org...

As a kid in the late 70's I could name the starting lineups for every Major League Baseball team (that was before free agency). So for McCain to remember a few Football teams defensive lines is not a stretch.

The only person stretching here is the reporter. GOTCHA! I'm sure they live for trivial moments like that. I'm sure he is getting a lot of pats on the back from his liberal peers.

[edit on 12-7-2008 by RRconservative]

He's in his 70's, so cut the man some slack! I can hardly remember what I did last week, and I'm only 45.

I think it is more of a case of a politician telling a story he thinks his audience wants to hear.
If he was in Chicago, he would have named the Bears. Detroit, the Lions, well, maybe not

More attention getting when you mention the home team. Find a common ground to get more votes and all.

It is a lie, not quite up to the standard of inventing the internet, though.

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
I think it is more of a case of a politician telling a story he thinks his audience wants to hear.
If he was in Chicago, he would have named the Bears. Detroit, the Lions, well, maybe not

More attention getting when you mention the home team. Find a common ground to get more votes and all.

It is a lie, not quite up to the standard of inventing the internet, though.

AL Gore NEVER SAID HE INVENTED THE INTERNET! THIS IS A LIE MADE UP BY THE GOP! What Gore said was he helped invent the internet by funding programs that led to it. He never said he invented it.

Anyways, Packer Steelers, Tampa Bay, heck he could have said he named off the Carolina Panthers starting line does it really matter?(The thing is the Panthers weren't around then)

when you tell 100's of lies it's hard to keep them all straight and going----that's all it is

he's a liar and fraud!!!!!!!!!
insance McCain
mcQuack


vote ron paul or libertarian,,, obama-mcCain the lesser of two evils----in my opinion at least

[edit on 12-7-2008 by shortywarn]

Originally posted by RRconservative
As a kid in the late 70's I could name the starting lineups for every Major League Baseball team (that was before free agency). So for McCain to remember a few Football teams defensive lines is not a stretch.
[edit on 12-7-2008 by RRconservative]

Yeah, but there is a certain irony in telling a lie about something that is so dear to certain people's hearts (like you said in regard to yourself and baseball). I am not a Steeler Superfan, or a Pennsylvanian, nor was I even alive during McCain's interment. But to me it is quite a stretch that he named players to the guards that didn't play in the NFL until after he returned home. Unless he is psychic.

It is not a 'GOTCHA!' except that John McCain either lied in his book, lied to the people he was speaking to, or lied about the whole thing.

And Lloyd's excuse that he is 70 sure makes me feel good about it. That his memory is shot in regard to who sadi what, when or where?

Sorry, to me, that is not very Presidential.

Go ahead and excuse the lies, the senility if you want, but I think you must have your head in the sand, or possibly somewhere else entirely.

To each his own I guess....
DocMoreau

Well at least someone see's why I posted this.

Really, one would rather exuse this as being absent minded but he sure the hell aint absent minded on who is giving him a bank roll, or sending people to die, or some other stupid crap like that.

[edit on 7/13/2008 by ThichHeaded]

This is going to go down as the most pathetic and idiotic discussion I've ever seen on ATS.

McCain "lies" about reciting the Steelers defensive line when he was a POW?

First, unless you were in the prison camp with McCain you have no way to know he DIDN'T recite the Steelers defensive line. He was in a prison camp for 5 years.

Did it ever occur to you geniuses that maybe he recited the Packers line AND the Steelers line during the five years, and that both statements could be true?

He started his prison camp time in 1968 when the Packers were on top. He didn't get out until December 1973, the year after the Steelers won their first division title.

More importantly, we're talking about what he said WHILE HE WAS IN A PRISON CAMP. Serving our country.

In August of 1968, a program of severe torture began on McCain. McCain was subjected to repeated beatings and rope bindings, at the same time as he was suffering from dysentery

Isn't it a bit sick and twisted to be harping on which pro football team a guy referred to while he was getting his arms broken and the #$#! beat out of him everyday?

By the way, isn't the terms for breaking news stories that you're supposed to use the actual headline from the news source for the title of the thread?

Here's the actual headline from the source:

"McCain Makes Contradiction About Black & Gold"

Or did the rules change? Can we now start posting whatever headlines we want for news stories?

Originally posted by jamie83
This is going to go down as the most pathetic and idiotic discussion I've ever seen on ATS.

Really, more Pathetic than your countless, rehashed, Obama bashing threads polluting the board with less than ten posts in response? I guess beauty truly is in the eye of the beholder.

Originally posted by jamie83
McCain "lies" about reciting the Steelers defensive line when he was a POW?

Yes Jamie, McCain lied about something. He either lied about reciting the Steelers line during a recent campaign stop, or he lied in his book when he said that he recited the Green Bay Packers line. He might have been lying about the whole thing, or he might not. But it is highly unlikely that he named a defensive line that he could know nothing about while held in captivity unless his captors gave him special priviledges so that he could follow the NFL. Its not like he had ESPN in his Bamboo Cage.

Originally posted by jamie83
First, unless you were in the prison camp with McCain you have no way to know he DIDN'T recite the Steelers defensive line. He was in a prison camp for 5 years.

Did it ever occur to you geniuses that maybe he recited the Packers line AND the Steelers line during the five years, and that both statements could be true?

He started his prison camp time in 1968 when the Packers were on top. He didn't get out until December 1973, the year after the Steelers won their first division title.

More importantly, we're talking about what he said WHILE HE WAS IN A PRISON CAMP. Serving our country.

In August of 1968, a program of severe torture began on McCain. McCain was subjected to repeated beatings and rope bindings, at the same time as he was suffering from dysentery

Isn't it a bit sick and twisted to be harping on which pro football team a guy referred to while he was getting his arms broken and the #$#! beat out of him everyday?

You can't have it both ways Jaime. Unless you are saying that his captors where providing McCain with some precursor to ESPN on satellite while they were beating the crap out of him and making him endure dysentery. Sorry man. It is doubtful that McCain had any idea what was going on with the Green Bay Packers or Pittsburg Steelers from 1967-1973. The Vietnamese wouldn't have been printing who got drafted in the NFL while he was captive, sorry. Doesn't hold water.

There is something sick happening, but unfortunately its a sickness in the brains of members like yourself who seem to be losing common sense and any rational thought.

McCain lied somewhere here, most likely it was to the people of Pittsburg while trying to earn their votes. It is highly likely that McCain recited the Packers, if he recited any names besides his those of his fellow servicemen. We can't know, can we? Unless McCain decides to actually tell the truth about this.

The Packers were the hot team before McCain got abducted, and didn't do much else until the Reggie White/Brett Farve era. The Steelers were never a hot team until after McCain got back from Vietnam. You are correct about 1972 being the first success the Steelers had. For those who still can't see what the big hullabaloo is about:

For about a quarter century after Lombardi left the Packers, they had comparatively little success compared to the 1960s. In the 24 seasons from 1968 to 1991, the Packers had only five seasons with a winning record (above .500), one being the shortened 1982 strike season.

NFL Championships (9)
1929, 1930, 1931, 1936, 1939, 1944, 1961, 1962, 1965
Super Bowl Championships (3)
1967 (I), 1968 (II), 1997 (XXXI)

en.wikipedia.org...

The Steelers made the playoffs for the first time in 1947, tying for first place in the division at 8-4 with the Philadelphia Eagles. This forced a tie-breaking playoff game at Forbes Field, which the Steelers lost 21-0.[9] That would be Pittsburgh's only playoff game for 25 years, though the Steelers did qualify for a "Playoff Bowl" in 1963 as the second best team in their conference, though not considered an official playoff.[10]

The Steelers' history of bad luck changed with the hiring of coach Chuck Noll for the 1969 season. Noll's most remarkable talent was in his draft selections, taking Hall of Famers "Mean" Joe Greene in 1969, Terry Bradshaw and Mel Blount in 1970, Jack Ham in 1971, Franco Harris in 1972,[11] and finally, in 1974, pulled off the incredible feat of selecting four Hall of Famers in one draft year, Mike Webster, Lynn Swann, John Stallworth, and Jack Lambert.[12] The Pittsburgh Steelers' 1974 draft has gone down in NFL history as the best ever, considering no other team has ever drafted four future Hall of Famers in one year. The players drafted in the early '70s formed the base of one of the greatest dynasties in NFL history, making the playoffs in eight seasons and becoming the only team in NFL history to win four Super Bowls in six years, as well as the first to win more than two.

Super Bowl Championships (5)
1974 (IX), 1975 (X), 1978 (XIII), 1979 (XIV), 2005 (XL)

en.wikipedia.org...

McCain must have been allowed the use of a Vietnamese Crystal Ball in order to tell his Handlers the names of the Steelers, right? They also kept in contact with the NFL on his behalf to keep him up to date on what players got drafted while he was in their care. They also did not pay attention to this information before they gave it to him

Pathetic is your attempt this time... You need to stick with the Obama bashes, when you come out in support of McCain you are out of your element. Oh by the way, congrats on finally coming off the fence

I am surprised that McCain chose the team for his book from before his captivity, and the team for his speech from after his captivity. I wonder why he didn't choose the team from 'during' his captivity? At least he didn't name the Seattle Seahawks, right? Then there would be no question...
DocMoreau

P.S. Being a Navy Brat, did John McCain have a football team that he supported, or is his naming of the lines of the Green Bay Packers and Pittsburgh Steelers betray his loyalty to the Straight Talk Bandwagon?

Dual Post

[edit on 13/7/2008 by DocMoreau]

Jamie, do you have a link for the external source you quoted here:

In August of 1968, a program of severe torture began on McCain. McCain was subjected to repeated beatings and rope bindings, at the same time as he was suffering from dysentery

DocMoreau

[edit on 13/7/2008 by DocMoreau]

Originally posted by DocMoreau
Yes Jamie, McCain lied about something. He either lied about reciting the Steelers line during a recent campaign stop, or he lied in his book when he said that he recited the Green Bay Packers line.

Follow this. I'll type slowly for you.

Have you ever heard of the term "mutually exclusive"? This refers to events that if one event is true, then the other must be false.

For example, say you flip a coin. It's either heads or tails. It can't be both. These are mutually exclusive events.

Now say a person goes to school from 8th grade to 12th grade. During this time the person recites the "Pledge of Allegiance."

He then is asked about his time in school and says he sang "The Star Spangled Banner."

OMF-inG God! That must mean the person LIED!!!!!

Not...

See, these events are NOT mutually exclusive, so by stating one it does NOT mean the other didn't happen.

McCain was a POW for 5 1/2 years. The Pittsburgh Steelers and Green Bay Packers BOTH had defensive lines before McCain went to Vietnam.

One day he could have recited the names of the Packers line. The next, the Steelers line. Only an intellect the size of a naked mole rat's pea brain would lead to a conclusion that these statements would be mutually exclusive. I.e., stating one does not exclude the possibility of stating the other as well.

Therefore, to conclude that he is lying is idiotic logic.

To make a campaign issue out of something a guy said while a POW 30 years ago while he was being tortured is idiotic logic combined with pathetic desperation brought on by being jilted by a formerly messianic candidate who looks more and more like a used car salesman everyday.


By the way, I'm still wondering why the mods are permitting the title of this thread to stay as is. It's not the title of the article, and never was the title of the article.

Is this the I'm-in-love-with-Obama double standard coming into play again?

[edit on 13-7-2008 by jamie83]

Originally posted by jamie83

Originally posted by DocMoreau
Yes Jamie, McCain lied about something. He either lied about reciting the Steelers line during a recent campaign stop, or he lied in his book when he said that he recited the Green Bay Packers line.

Follow this. I'll type slowly for you.

Have you ever heard of the term "mutually exclusive"? This refers to events that if one event is true, then the other must be false.

For example, say you flip a coin. It's either heads or tails. It can't be both. These are mutually exclusive events.

I have heard the term 'mutual exclusive'. I also understand what it means. I understand that McCain could have 'Rainman' like abilities to remember the names of all the Defensive Lineman in the NFL and AFL from the late 1960s. (There is no way he knew the names of the players drafted while he was abducted, you have to admit that) He could have named the names of all the NBA players he knew as well. We will never know, we were not there. He could have also made up the whole story to cover the names he actually named... A man is only as good as his word, right?

What is an issue is why he named the Packers in his book, but made no mention of the Steelers, the rest of the NFL, the AFL, the NBA or any other 'logically idiotic' names he could think up. He named the Packers, which makes sense since they were World Champs at the time. What doesn't make sense is the recent disclosure about naming the Steelers while at a campaign stop in Pennsylvania.

Can you not admit that the recent disclosure of naming the Steelers is a bit odd? Or is the memory of a 70 year old suddenly remembering it now, where a younger McCain neglected to include it in print? One second his 70 year old memory can't be blamed, and the next his mind is as sharp as a whip. Very Odd. Or does the term 'mutually exclusive' not apply to the mental state of John McCain? How about the word senile, is that word mutually exclusive. Logically, McCain is qualified to be President, right?

Originally posted by jamie83
McCain was a POW for 5 1/2 years. The Pittsburgh Steelers and Green Bay Packers BOTH had defensive lines before McCain went to Vietnam.

One day he could have recited the names of the Packers line. The next, the Steelers line. Only an intellect the size of a naked mole rat's pea brain would lead to a conclusion that these statements would be mutually exclusive. I.e., stating one does not exclude the possibility of stating the other as well.

Therefore, to conclude that he is lying is idiotic logic.

To make a campaign issue out of something a guy said while a POW 30 years ago while he was being tortured is idiotic logic combined with pathetic desperation brought on by being jilted by a formerly messianic candidate who looks more and more like a used car salesman everyday.


By the way, I'm still wondering why the mods are permitting the title of this thread to stay as is. It's not the title of the article, and never was the title of the article.

Is this the I'm-in-love-with-Obama double standard coming into play again?

The 5 1/2 years McCain was captive, just happens to mutually exclude the two teams from the National Stage. Perhaps it is just coincidental that McCain mentioned one team that saw its fortunes wane while he was away, and another whose fortunes rose upon his return. Maybe you are right, maybe it is the memory of a tortured, senile 70 year old man just making a mistake, or maybe you are right and that McCain knew the names of all the defensive lines in the NFL, and is able to change his anecdotal story to fit his campaign stop, and not be a liar in the process.

Jaime, this argument is not about what McCain said 30 years ago while he was tortured. This has to do with what the guy wrote in his book, and then what he said at a campaign stop that implies contradiction to what he wrote in his book. Neither you or I were in the Bamboo cage with McCain 30 years ago, so we have no idea what he actually told his captors, do we? So we have to take him on his word, right? Which word do you want to take him on? Steelers, because you hail from Pennsylvania? Packers, because they were the dominant team before his incarceration? Or both of them because today they are both perceived as winners today? (Without regard to the fact that the Steelers hardly warranted national attention until after 1972, while McCain was in captivity)

You are the only one who has ever said that I am in love with Obama.

You also seem to have a stick up where the sun doesn't shine in regard to the thread title. Have you contacted a mod, or are do expect them to just bow to your every request? Since about an hour has passed since you first mentioned it in the middle of the night, I think you can give the mods at this free board a bit of a break... I am sure that they will sort everything out to your liking.

DocMoreau

P.S. I guess I have an intellect the size of a naked mole rat's pea brain (sweet ad hominem attack there!), because this example of John McCain's memory makes me think he lied about the Steelers in order to try to get votes in the State of Pennsylvania. Funny how worked up you are about the scrutiny John McCain has gotten because he suddenly remembering while he was in Pennsylvania that he was a Steeler fan 30 years after the fact, and before they had ever won a championship. He must have been a diehard Steeler fan to know the names of the linemen during that era, the Steelers were not all that good.

1960 NFL Eastern 5th 5 6 1
1961 NFL Eastern 5th 6 8 0
1962 NFL Eastern 2nd 9 5 0
1963 NFL Eastern 4th 7 4 3
1964 NFL Eastern 6th 5 9 0
1965 NFL Eastern 7th 2 12 0
1966 NFL Eastern 6th 5 8 1
1967 NFL Eastern 4th 4 9 1
1968 NFL Eastern 4th 2 11 1
1969 NFL Eastern 4th 1 13 0
1970 NFL AFC Central 3rd 5 9 0
1971 NFL AFC Central 2nd 6 8 0

en.wikipedia.org...

Lucky for us, this event is not 'mutually exclusive' from the 'event' of his involvement in the Keating 5 scandal or the 'event' of his wife escaping prosecution for illegally using Vicodin and stealing said Vicodin from her own non-profit organization. I wonder how you would react if I said that I thought that I think McCain is on Vicodin himself, right now.

[edit on 13/7/2008 by DocMoreau]

Again he could have said he gave off the list for the XFL league that Vince McMahon tried to start. Does it matter? Fox News will never report it and the republicans refuse to watch CNN or MSNBC or CSPAN or any real news orginization because they don't get memos from the White House telling them what to report like Fox News does.