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Would you consider rising oil prices an Act of War?

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posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 02:34 AM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 



Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by jsobecky
Cell phones are practically free these days. Electronics, medicine, etc., all benefit.

Why is oil different?


The supply of cell phones, etc is HUGE! Practically unlimited. If there were a limited amount of cell phones being produced, the prices would not be what they are.


Cell phones and many other goods are dependent upon a secure source of energy, not only for the polymers in their makeup but for all other aspects of their existence.

Food prices are rising because the cost of growing and transporting them is rising.

There is no shortage of oil. Just a shortage of reasonably priced oil.



Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Who is raising these prices? Who specifically?


Do you mean, who benefits? Speculators to a great degree. They should be legislated or regulated out of existence. Oil cannot be treated as a commodity; it has national security implications.

Exxon, etc., don't really benefit. As a matter of fact, Exxon is getting out of the retail (gas station) business.

Dos OPEC benefit? Here's a dated but very interesting article:

OPEC's Struggle to Keep Oil Prices High



Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
If you can buy all the gas you want, then what's the problem?


The rapid rise in price, with no end in sight. And as I mentioned, everything else is affected, such as food.


Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Do you know where we get our oil?


Yep. I'm aware that Canada and Mexico are two major suppliers.

What does that tell you?

What do Canada, Mexico, and the US have in common?


That's right - we're all part of NORTH AMERICA

And if we were drilling where we should be drilling, we'd very likely be getting 90% of our oil from our own country!

Sorry if it sounded like I'm yelling. But you just made a point that is very important: we should be exploring in ANWR, off all coasts, in the Rockies, and everywhere else. That is in addition to building new refineries. As much as I hate gov't involvement, I would go along with gov't ownership of new refinereries if that's what it took to get them financed and built.


Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Are you talking about stealing oil from Canada and Mexico?


I didn't advocate stealing. I'd be willing to pay a fair price for it.




posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 02:40 AM
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One of NWO's objectives is to shrink and/or eliminate the middle class.

The best way to do that is by raising the price on a resource that everyone uses daily (at least most).

Mostly affected are NWO developed continents like Europe and North America.



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 02:49 AM
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reply to post by jetxnet
 


Europe is not as affected as the US, due to the relatively strong Euro.



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 02:53 AM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
The economy is on wobbly legs right now. Whether or not it is technically a recession is irrelevant. The main reason is the cost of oil keeps rising. Theretically, the cost could be at or over $200/barrel by the end of the year.

This is definitely a clear and present danger to our nation's security. I don't think you can argue that point. Even though bullets aren't being fired, the act of aggression is obvious.

Given that, what action do you think we as a nation should to solve this problem? Are we justified in securing what oil we need if prices do not fall to reasonable levels?

The amount of wealth leaving our country every day because of these high prices is astronomical. It is bleeding us dry; we cannot afford to let it continue.


Ya JSOBECKY this whole thing is sick.

Are the aggressors: the free market? The speculators ? The oil companies themselves? S.A, Kuwait, Iraq, Venezuela...?

What logic would guide a declaration of war?

We are in Iraq and there is enough oil to offset pump costs-- But then the free market
and the speculation would give us a same result.

Lets say we invaded another oil rich country with our tax dollars - the oil companies would need a large cut-- even though they did not pay for the invasion. The only other option would be "socializing" to keep profits down. Probably not a good idea in your eyes...

I think this is an act of WAR flat out --- I remember the "energy crisis of California"
where they would turn off routing stations and then cite decreased supply - increased demand as the cause of outrages prices. Technically true, but what laws were broken...???



Once you smell the stench of such a stinking pile you will never forget it!
Therein rests my opinion!





[edit on 12-7-2008 by mental modulator]



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 02:59 AM
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Originally posted by jetxnet
One of NWO's objectives is to shrink and/or eliminate the middle class.

The best way to do that is by raising the price on a resource that everyone uses daily (at least most).

Mostly affected are NWO developed continents like Europe and North America.



I think your right... Maybe the NWO plays both sides of the fence.

We keep busy arguing our ideologies and they are busy dumping the coins out of both of our pockets?

If both sides are wrong and both sides are right - maybe NWO needs to be represented by both sides?



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 03:05 AM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
The economy is on wobbly legs right now. Whether or not it is technically a recession is irrelevant. The main reason is the cost of oil keeps rising. Theretically, the cost could be at or over $200/barrel by the end of the year.

This is definitely a clear and present danger to our nation's security. I don't think you can argue that point. Even though bullets aren't being fired, the act of aggression is obvious....


I think short headed people want to solve even price of oil through guns and bullets. That is called thieving, Becky. Civilized people don´t do that.



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 03:09 AM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
reply to post by jetxnet
 


Europe is not as affected as the US, due to the relatively strong Euro.



Following your ¨reasoning¨ the US Dollar is the problem. Let´s declare war on it by diversing our currencies. Let´s drop the dollar and buy gold and silver.

I agree, Becky.



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 03:09 AM
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reply to post by mental modulator
 


As another member noted, the top two countries we import oil from are Canada and Mexico.

We are sandwiched between them.

We allow the Chinese to drill off our coasts yet prohibit our own corporations from doing so.

The oil in Canada and Mexico does not magically stop at the borders. We should be drilling in ANWR, off all coasts, in the Rockies, and anywhere else where there is oil.

The Feds should invest in the new refineries. Screw the oilcos if they won't invest.

We have enough to keep us going while we develop hydrogen as the next auto fuel.



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 03:11 AM
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I smell riots and civil unrest in the near future, Becky.

Who would you declare war on, it that happens, Becky?


Perhaps the American public?


[edit on 12/7/2008 by ignaciobeltran]



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 03:14 AM
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The rise in gas prices is due to the federal reserve and the major banks, its that simple.

I'm not giving the oil companies a free pass, they have been guilty of major crimes in the past few decades and have definitely conspired to strangle the supply for profit. But nothing has really changed in that regard in over a decade.

The problem for the massive recent hikes is inflation (which is a hidden tax, a way to loot the economy ) by the federal reserve.

Watch this 4 minute vid for details




posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 03:15 AM
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Sorry if it sounded like I'm yelling. But you just made a point that is very important: we should be exploring in ANWR, off all coasts, in the Rockies, and everywhere else. That is in addition to building new refineries. As much as I hate gov't involvement, I would go along with gov't ownership of new refineries if that's what it took to get them financed and built.


Hey JSOBECKY - I took a natural resources geology class last year and I remember a formulation for determining oil deposits thats accurate to about 10% if I recall.

I also remember that the US has an estimated 3-5% of the worlds oil within its "jurisdiction" -- if you couple that with the fact that the US consumes 25% of the worlds oil... Unless technology advances quickly a domestic approach would only slightly dent the issue.

Anyways I agree with you that oil is a national security concern and I think speculation should be out tomorrow!

Theres always IRAQ...



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 03:18 AM
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[edit on 12-7-2008 by mental modulator]



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 03:19 AM
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reply to post by RevolutionNow
 


Great video.

Good reasoning.

Let´s pray Becky is educated by this video, and the millions of Americans who want WAR as a solution to colds, poor grades in school,a bad sex life, and idiocies like these...



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 03:23 AM
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reply to post by mental modulator
 


Nice to see you. That´s correct.



We all should be looking for water. That´s the next level of emergency that´s coming in about 2 or 3 years.

Let´s forget about wars, and learn to share and cooperate.



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 03:29 AM
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And what exactly is "securing what oil we need" supposed to mean?

Pay for it fair and square on the open market (forgot about capitalism?) and buy it from the people who it belongs to or do without.

Freakin' Americans with this kind of sense of entitlement piss me off.

.

[edit on 7/11/2008 by Gools]

I feel the same.


Otherwise I might go and kill people if I have no money for a hamburger and go to Carl´s Jr. and order a free hmburger or kill the cashier.



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 03:31 AM
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Originally posted by ignaciobeltran
reply to post by mental modulator
 


Nice to see you. That´s correct.



We all should be looking for water. That´s the next level of emergency that´s coming in about 2 or 3 years.

Let´s forget about wars, and learn to share and cooperate.


Water--- Oh that will be fun when they speculate on that




I agree...



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 03:35 AM
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reply to post by jsobecky
 


JSOBECKY --WHERE DID YOU GO???

just when it was getting good in here...



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 03:35 AM
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reply to post by mental modulator
 



Originally posted by mental modulator

Hey JSOBECKY - I took a natural resources geology class last year and I remember a formulation for determining oil deposits thats accurate to about 10% if I recall.

I also remember that the US has an estimated 3-5% of the worlds oil within its "jurisdiction" -- if you couple that with the fact that the US consumes 25% of the worlds oil... Unless technology advances quickly a domestic approach would only slightly dent the issue.

Anyways I agree with you that oil is a national security concern and I think speculation should be out tomorrow!

Theres always IRAQ...



I'd have to differ with your figures. The shale oil reserves in the Rockies are enormous, and the exploration off coast should have big yields, as well as ANWR.

Also, natural gas is a largely unexploited resource, esp. in AK.

PS - Why do you post and then delete? Cold feet?

[edit on 12-7-2008 by jsobecky]



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 03:41 AM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
reply to post by mental modulator
 



Originally posted by mental modulator

Hey JSOBECKY - I took a natural resources geology class last year and I remember a formulation for determining oil deposits thats accurate to about 10% if I recall.

I also remember that the US has an estimated 3-5% of the worlds oil within its "jurisdiction" -- if you couple that with the fact that the US consumes 25% of the worlds oil... Unless technology advances quickly a domestic approach would only slightly dent the issue.

Anyways I agree with you that oil is a national security concern and I think speculation should be out tomorrow!

Theres always IRAQ...



I'd have to differ with your figures. The shale oil reserves in the Rockies are enormous, and the exploration off coast should have big yields, as well as ANWR.

Also, natural gas is a largely unexploited resource, esp. in AK.


There you are ---

Hey I'm just going off what I learned in school -- I even googled it before hand (stay flame free you know) and found the number to be between 3% by some estimates --to 5% other (highest) estimate.

The formulation I cited is tried and true since the 50's...

But I do agree if opening up new drilling will help then I am not against it.
Well,,, we still have the problem of free market and speculation.



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 03:43 AM
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reply to post by RevolutionNow
 



Originally posted by RevolutionNow
The problem for the massive recent hikes is inflation (which is a hidden tax, a way to loot the economy ) by the federal reserve.

Watch this 4 minute vid for details


You have no idea what inflation is. You can get a mortgage for 5%. When I bought my first home, Interest rates were at 18%.

Now that's inflation.

All the FED has done is to LOWER interest rates for the past few years.



[edit on 12-7-2008 by jsobecky]



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