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Would you consider rising oil prices an Act of War?

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posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 06:53 PM
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Big oil, big car (suv/hummers) have made it affordable to present times.
4.32 a gallon. All of a sudden everyone is in a panic. As well they should.
Bought, sold, greased, and ready for the oven. My suv makes my tail safe! Until you can't afford the gas for it anymore. Yada yada.




posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 06:57 PM
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reply to post by Dubyakadubla
 


You've got it! The speculators and oil companies are the "enemy" here. We can thank them and our own current government for the price we're paying for oil.

And still, the way to independence is conservation and alternative fuel and power sources.



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 06:59 PM
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I definitely wouldn't and don't call it an act of war. I call it supply and demand, depleting resources, and capitalism.

[edit to add: greed to the list]

[edit on 11-7-2008 by rivos]



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 07:07 PM
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A lot of people say that the devalued dollar is the major reason oil prices have risen so much. If thats the case, the who is our enemy? I guess it would be the privately owned federal reserve.

Also, has it occurred to anyone that with China's consumption going through the roof, that maybe there is not enough (or soon won't be) oil to meet everyones demands? Making the claim that oil prices soaring is an act of war is very dangerous, because there are many factors involved.

Do you really think that a country like Iran is more to blame than the federal reserve, or speculators, or oil companies like Haliburton? How are people so quick to want to attack a country when things get tough, but they don't want to challenge the elite that continue to make untold fortunes despite everyone elses suffering?

Lastly, as far as many people saying they don't care whats right, if the US needs it, we should take it, you are the reason the world is as in bad of shape as it is. This mentality is sick. First off, the US uses way more oil than the rest of the world, so saying we should attack people for getting inconvenienced is asinine.

The propensity for people to be willing to kill others and steal there possessions is why the world is as bad as it is. Especially because you won't try to steal from people with the real money and power, no instead you will prey on the weakest possible people. The funny thing is that I bet most of you saying this are Christians. I'm sure your God would be very proud of you.

I just want to ask everyone to realize that this isn't the thinking process of all Americans. I view myself as American in name only. I am a human being, and I will not condone the death of any other human being for greed. Things like this misguided patriotism is what allows the world elite to stay in power, and ensures that things like genocide and starvation will never end.



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 07:11 PM
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Here's my rant on what I'd like to see done to lower the price of gas at the pump.

First I'd make a law to nationalize all oil and natural gas within the United States and within the 200 mile fishing limit boundaries.

Next I'd send in the National Guard to take control over all privately held refineries. I seize the bank accounts next ... sliding the profits into the National Budget before bombing the crap out of the middle east.

Here's the latest stats on drilling rigs
www.chron.com...

[edit on 11-7-2008 by Skydancer]

[edit on 11-7-2008 by Skydancer]



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 07:22 PM
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To respond to the OP's question,

The question that would precede the answer in my mind is; "Who is raising the price?"

An economic war, if one can be said to be possible, is already underway. Unfortunately for us, we seem to be losing. The winners of this 'war' get what? It can't be about oil can it? I think it's about control of wealth, which we tacitly empower with our own, dare I say it, 'selfish' programming. But that is neither here nor there, we DO need oil.

Wouldn't it be safer, and easier, and cost less to simply declare eminent domain on all the existing oil sources within US territory? Nationalize the lot and let the politician's play their stupid games on how best to operate the system, sans profit?

Or is that blasphemy? MUST the bankers have their hands in everything? Or can the American people have at least that much security? Why is it such an offensive proposition to many? Ideology? Seems to me that you can't fill your desperate need for fuel with ideology. But that's just me.



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 07:32 PM
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I can certainly understand the direction you are coming from with the question you pose. The issue here is far more complex than just oil being expensive. We in this country have deserve plenty of blame for the situation; absolute over-indulgence and dependence on the oil is #1. We have, and continue to enable a government that bastardizes our dollar and drives it further down. We allow ourselves to believe that "supply and demand" is absolute, and never question it (read the news, consumption is going down in almost all oil dependent countries due to the costs, yet the price rises?). Frankly, I could go on all day on this one; in answer to your question, no it is not an act of war, it is an act of carlessness on the part of every person on this planet.

[edit on 11-7-2008 by BennyHill]



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 07:42 PM
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reply to post by Gools
 

Freaking Americans with this type of attitude piss off other AMERICANS too... Myself first in line. Yea we should be able to kill and invade anyone/anywhere we want because we are AMERICA.. THE GREATEST OF THE GREATEST.

How can people NOT link this mentality to what took place nearly 100 years ago in world history by another maniacal country... IDIOTS!!!!





posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 07:44 PM
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I forgot to mention how I'd handle how all global oil is traded in US Funds.

Simple after reading this from OPEC
www.iht.com...

Bomb the crap out of the entire middle east turning OPEC into a tar pit for messing with my currency.

[edit on 11-7-2008 by Skydancer]



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 07:46 PM
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Yes it is an act of war. There is a military strategy known as assymetric warfare. It is attacking the enemy on all possible vectors with an emphasis on non-conventional methods to destabilze an enemy before military forces are deployed; to ensure a complete and total victory. It is usually employed by one of the parties in a war that percieves itself as having a distinct disadvantage to its adversary.

In their book: "Unrestricted Warfare" by Colonel Qiao Liang & Colonel Wang Xiangsui (People’s Liberation Army); they make note of how attacks in New York could spark the US into war, run it's resources dry and weaken it. It also notes that our dependence on oil is a suitable target for attack by NGO shifting policies, hackers manipulating markets, and enemies of enemies purchasing US based oil companies and a host of non-military actions that appear to be something that they are not - it is straight out of the "Art of War" by Sun Tzu; "attack your enemy by making it appear you are not attacking, when your forces are close to your enemy make it appear they are far away".

So yes, OPEC nations and China are waging an assymetric war against the US to weaken it. OPEC nations are buying our financial institutions for pennies on the dollar, Chinese PLA controlled companies control our sea-ports and purchase US companies as well.

We as a nation should do something about it.... but we won't because I've already seen a number of posts by people who are US citizens that are the typical emasculated responses to such an idea of actually "doing" something to protect our "American Interests"; it doesn't have to be nuclear warfare - it could be raising the tax on imports or using hackers to destabilze their economy and a host of other options that encompass the the strategy of assymetric warfare.

-Euclid

[edit on 11-7-2008 by euclid]



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 07:47 PM
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Originally posted by Desert Dawg
Open ANWR and the coasts to drilling.


Oil must be refined to become gas. All our open refineries are operating at maximum because the oil companies don't want to pay the cost to operate more.

EVEN IF drilling in ANWR and the coasts were begun today and produced oil in 5 years, barrels of more oil wouldn't do us any good unless we opened the refineries to process it. How willing do you think the oil companies are going to be to spend money so we can have our $2 per gallon gasoline?



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 08:43 PM
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reply to post by jsobecky
 


YES!



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 09:35 PM
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This whole oil thing smells like low tide at the docks!
The seemingly indifferent attitude that has been demonstrated by the U.S. leadership in regards to finding an alternitave PISSES ME OFF!


It is behavior like that that hangs shame on the U.S.'s reputation among many other things.
The cost of finding another way not only far outwieghs the cost of being unable to adapt to a changing world, but is also FAR cheaper than starting yet another war for oil.

To many of my buddies died in Iraq for this GD nonsensical behavior and quite frankly Im tired of it to an extremist level.
I am not sure why people are bitching about the price of oil.
Is it in general because nearly everything we have requires oil in one form or another to produce?

Or does the whinning come from the reality that Americans are overly decadent in nearly all aspects of thier lives and to damn proud to stop driving thier one of 3 cars? I know not everyone has that, but one has to be honest, the biggest complaint I hear from Americans isnt the price of oil by the barrel but rather the cost of gas at the pump.

I think I do declare rising oil prices an act of war toward my government for being inept in matters of civility.
The United States of America is at long last showing it's true colors to the rest of the world, not as a peace loving country open in harmony to all those who seek freedom from oppression but on the contrary a country that insights war for profit and kills gratuitously for the most pretentious of reasons.
No nation is safe from what is America is becoming.
A nation out to get everyone under the guise of peace and prosperity.

The United States of America;...Officially the most hated country on Earth.



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 10:05 PM
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Why would a capitalistic government consider a rise in price in anything a reason for war? The U.S. of all people should understand this. You got people that need it and you can set your price, what the hell do you think anyone in America would do?



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 10:21 PM
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I consider rising oil prices to be malicious intent on the part of the Federal Reserve and other central banks of the world who are making war upon the average Joe and Jane Shmoe through inflation. When the economic collapse happens, and it will here in the States regretfully, it will be due to none other than the Federal Reserve for their criminal economic policies and ourselves for living beyond our means without thinking of the consequences.

Rising oil prices are not due to the fact that supply is dwindling or OPEC jacking up prices, but only to the fact that we have allowed the FED to print money out of thin air and without oversight from Congress or the People of this country. The sooner we get rid of the Federal Reserve system and re-implement the Constitutional money system, the better.

When the crash comes, the Government will offer us two choices, go with the new system, or be considered an enemy of the state. And people will fall to their knees and accept it. Anything to get back their previous lifestyles. Just remember that the new system will come with a price; yours and all of ours Freedom.



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 10:43 PM
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I know oil prices are high and it sucks but come on when you think about it how big a deal is it really. I used to fill my tank once a week and it cost about 30 then, now it is 60. So instead of spending 1500 a year on gas I spend 3000. Yes it is alot and I cring at the pump, but I am also more aware of how I drive. I fill up my tires to the correct pressure, get my oil changed regularly and do not drive like an idiot. So right there I am shaving money off that 3000$. maybe saving as much as 10-20%. I am also more conscious of where I am driving and doing all my errands at once. Or all in one day. Instead of leaving of the house coming home leaving again. This again saves me more money. Now I can get 1 1/2 out of a full tank of gas. Now I understand some are effected more than others, like those who have to commute long distances and especially truckers. Well you could also car pool. As for truckers, there is nothing to do. And for the people living in poverty it also is real tough. But it is easy to make that back by cutting back on other things. It is not the end of the world. After all many other countries have way higher prices then the USA. Look at turkey, they pay over 11% a gallon. As for food, buy store brand products, cut back on junk if you cant afford it. And as technologies advance more and more people will be using less and less gas, causing inventories to go up and prices to come down. Think of how many people have stopped driving SUV's. A year from now we will have an abundance of this gas on the market and it will get cheaper and cheaper. I am guess in 3-5 years we will see gas back in the 2.50 cent range. Maybe even 1 in 10 years. (I can make a prediction, probably will come true like all the other predictions on this site) This is probably a good thing this is happening now. It is a wake up call. Things will stabalize. Things will get better. All you people and all your doom and gloom doesn't do anyone any good. Since when has complaining about something gotten you anywhere. To those people who are real poor, I am sorry. It sucks. Get another job if possible, start an internet site. I started a credit card affiliate site (all it cost is the cost to of webhosting and domain name) a domain name is 9.00 and hoting is 6$/month. I am making an extra 500$/month on this which more than offsets the rise in gas prices and food. The strong will survive. There are actually opportunities to really make some money in this market for everyone. So to answer your question, no it isnt a reason to go to war.



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 11:27 PM
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Reliance on a finite resource, regardless of the debate on how much is actually left.. must run out at some stage. By hiking prices you prolong the 'run out' and make more profit by selling less for more before eventual collapse due to people relying on it.

New tech needs to be released (seems like mostly withheld for now..).

We also have finite construction resources for the new tech.. so we're screwed either way eventually unless we invent new recycling strategies
I'm beginning to lean towards world population cut and lifestyle changes probably needed to take place to sustain life on this planet.

I wonder how it will all pan out..

There's not enough resources for everyone in the world to be driving cars under the usual western lifestyle... as with many other amenities.

[edit on 11/7/08 by GhostR1der]



posted on Jul, 11 2008 @ 11:41 PM
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No, it's not an act of war.

I haven't had time to read all the posts here but BennyHill and some others make cogent points. The thing is, reliance on fossil fuels is something we should be looking beyond without this toe-stub. Maybe these price-rises are a good thing if it shakes us out of our complacency. Time will tell...

[edit on 11-7-2008 by SHJ 17]

[edit on 11-7-2008 by SHJ 17]



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 01:50 AM
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Originally posted by budski


We also have to face the fact that the west has become slightly spoilt and is used to the the ridiculous notion of conspicuous consumption - it's about time we started to tighten our belts and face the reality that the free ride is over.

To take the resources of another country by force is an act of war - to charge a price that the market dictates is not.



He has a point. If we didn't use as much oil, only what is necessary, then we wouldn't be facing this problem until many many years to come. But because of our greedy intake of it all, using it on luxury items as if we could afford it, we are suffering our own reward.

Listening to this sooner, rather than now, instead of ignoring the predictions of intelligent people, might have prevented some of these problems.

But is it an act of war? ^_^ I guess you have to look at who is selling the oil, who is in on it for their own devices, and who is in control over all. Not all oil companies have risen as much as others. We just tend to look at that way.

psht... we shall see. Hopefully if it is tied to a slice of war, it will eventually come out.



posted on Jul, 12 2008 @ 02:01 AM
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If I am not mistaken,China,and other eastern countries buy more of their oil from more localised countries,such as IRAN!...So I don't believe that is driving up costs in the US so much as we are being led to believe.
China has the sense to build their own refineries,something the US has not done in over 20 years ,Refining capacity is a real issue in the US.
The american lifestyle is partially to blame for the price of oil.
If you are not a professional mechanic,why would you need a $15,000 set of snap on tools,when a cheap set of craftsmen tools from sears would serve you just as well?...The same logic applies to transportation,aside from the fact most american's rely on others to do that which they can do for themselves......but that is another topic.
The problem with prices of petroleum products in the US is not about demand so much as it is about the devaluation of the US currency.
If you want to attack someone,first you need to attack those who taught you to believe that you need all of those things that you do not need,starting with Edwin Bernays,or really the consumer mentality he created to serve corporate profiteering,he basically created the consumer mentality you all suffer from....
Another problem with the price of petroleum in the US is the futures trading market,which after the first depression was reigned in by legislation,I believe it was the Glass/Stiegal act,which by the way was basically nullified by the bush administration.
Globalisation is the other problem,but of course most would not consider it to be a factor,since they have been led to believe glabalisation is a good thing...The US was founded to get away from precisely the thing the globalists are trying to accomplish,Precisely.
I was completely shocked by the opening post on this thread,I could not believe the level to which this country has sank,that anyone would be so ignorant as to attack another country to reduce the price of petroleum,since the military is by far the least efficient and most wasteful user of petroleum there is.And since the amount of money used in miltitary activities would require the printing of more worthless paper to devalue your currency that is already out there,and would drive prices farther up,and will....
I am trying to reply to the opening post of the thread in a civil manner,but I find it difficult to discuss something so un-civil as warfare in a civil fashion,especially when the root of the problem,the most basic issue,is that most people in the US are just so incredibly ignorant,so incredibly lazy and ineffective,weak......just let someone else bleed and cry out in pain and die so you can keep driving around and get fatter...
There is no place left in this world to escape to,thanks to globalism.
Enjoy the ride,just wake up enough to realise you are being taken for one.




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