You have to just take away the ability to get anything if your not legal, no house, no job, no medical , no school, nothing without legal status plain and simple. This is the only answer. Then you can open up programs that basically lets them leave on their own with the option to go ahead and fill out the forms to become legal as they leave will put them on a streamlined list to become legal is fine with me. But if caught over here after this point you are deported and can never apply for legal status again. Do these steps and it wont be perfect but its about the best you can do

Take away all incentives to come here for the free ride and they will not come its as simple as that.

Anyone that tries to mix in legal immigrants with illegal or throws the racist label are very desperate and unintelligent to begin with. All legal immigrants that come here wanting to really be an american and live the american dream are welcome, its what america is all about.

Bringing up the fact that people just came to america hundreds of years ago before these laws existed is asinine as well. We have these laws for a reason and its one of the reasons USA is regardless what some bashers might say, the best country in the world. If your first step in coming to america is breaking the law, we dont need you here.

There are plenty of americans to do the jobs needed to be done, dont worry about that as its a non issue. The country would be back to great again if we got rid of the freeloaders right now, all the money they spend here is nothing compared to what we pay to take care of them out of our pockets. Not even close.

For your infomation CandyFloss, I'm not in my fifties Nor from the fifties, But I know there will be spongers , What offends me the most is that there wil always be lazy Bastards who think it's right and Ok to be claiming dole money. I work my arse off trying to provide for me family , I know jobs are hard to come by but it shouldn't stop people from looking should it?
And the reason a lot of illegals take the lower paid jobs is because companies want to maximise profits with spending as little as possible. I should know as the companies I have worked for in the past have done just that, They employ illegals so they don't have to pay taxes and don't have to give the 'employees' proper benefits..
Its common place this day and age to do this. Everyones trying to make a quick buck, I for one want people to provide an honest days work for an honest days pay? IS that too much to ask, as for TC sensationalism, I do know someone who has (ok maybe not 20) 3 kids and she feels it's her right not to work but to bring in the money via dole handouts. What kind of upbringing is that for kids these days?
Its the wrong kind of impression to give out , as the kids will in the future do the same because its easier than working? Its like Footballers or 'Glamour' models, No intelligence is needed and its 'easy money' according to the media....
So if any generalisation was mistakenly taken on your part then thats ok, everyones entitled to an opinion and thats all this is for me, AN OPINION. So please stop slating me if you got the wrong end of the stick, and just understand what I'm trying to say, Illegals are ok if they're providing quality services instead of nicking taxpayers money.And as for the tax avoiders , they're in the same boat, but unfortunalty the saying goes those who know how to make money, know how to keep money.
So they should pay their dues, but today it seems theres no honour or pride in doing things right , just what you can get away with..... And thats what Im annoyed about, but theres no way anyone can change the way of the world, so I'll just keep my head down and do what I think is right and honourable.

Originally posted by hinky
To throw every illegal out looks good on paper and makes great speech material for politicians. It will not happen on a large scale. You'd raise issues of millions of Mexicans going back to their faltering economy not to mention millions of Asians here for a variety of reasons other than economic. This action would destabilize current governments with an influx of unemployed people who have seen America and would still want that lifestyle in their homeland.

And this should matter to us in what way? You can basically remove the entire food service sector from the equation here. Min. wage in Washington state is like $8 an hour, and they've got plenty of applications of people wanting to work for them there on file. The agriculture industry would suffer, but if we implemented an immediate change in the way we handle nonviolent prisoners that would be a thing of the past as well. IMO, anybody behind bars should be repaying their debt to society via sweat and hard labor. Ta-da! Field worker problem mitigated.

The real reason nothing will be done hasn't got a damn thing to do with greed, corporate pressure for cheap labor, or Reaganomics. It's all about kissing the ass of the soon to be majority minority voting block in this country... the Mexican. No politician in their right mind would do anything to risk drawing the collective ire of the lantino voting demographic. The perception is any real assault on illegal immigrants is an assault on the latino in general and as such the backlash would be significant. Until we convince American hispanics that they or their ancestors went through the proper channels and did things the right way, becoming legal citizens, and these illegals are interlopers who are bypassing the right way to do things, we won't see any real changes to the problems of illegal aliens.

We actualy do not need any government regulation to stop the illegal problem. If the populace is realy agaist the problems involved, then every time you see or find out that a service is using illegals, don't patronize that service provider. Make sure you let that owner know why and move on to another provider. Its sounds elemental and easy but its not. Its going to take boycotting these businesses by more and more people to get the message accross!

Zindo

Originally posted by ZindoDoone
every time you see or find out that a service is using illegals, don't patronize that service provider.

That's freaking briliant! As we all know, the illegals all wear large badges with the word ILLEGAL printed in them in fluorescent color. You are a genius.

Originally posted by ZindoDoone
We actualy do not need any government regulation to stop the illegal problem. If the populace is realy agaist the problems involved, then every time you see or find out that a service is using illegals, don't patronize that service provider. Make sure you let that owner know why and move on to another provider. Its sounds elemental and easy but its not. Its going to take boycotting these businesses by more and more people to get the message accross!

Zindo

While I appreciate the sentiment behind your idea, in some parts of the country this is absolutely impossible. Southern New Mexico, for example. It would require boycotting virtually all produce, you couldn't shop at any stores because all of them I can think of have at least a handfull of wets working nights stocking shelves, you couldn't eat at any restaurant whatsoever, and every non-government business in the service sector has some on payroll.

I think the problem with the whole ILLEGAL immigrants is that people always say it's because they live off welfare and our taxes.

Why don't they show on TV that it isn't cool to be on welfare and that it sucks to be a dumb(donkey) and be an illiterate idiot and not have a college diploma? How about we don't condition the people to WANT to be smart and to WANT to work that mass in there skull?

Maybe just maybe, we will have change. The low end jobs wouldn't exist because we have some machine do it. Heck if I made an incompetent human loose his use and job with an automated script, what can't a bunch of THINKING and CREATIVE individuals do?

just my 2 cents

and sorry to sound like this but I do believe people should evolve mentally. I'm no judge but actions and consequences speak for themselves.

Originally posted by kozmo
More fatalist nonsense! Nothing would rot in fields

BULL!!! I had to start using Mexicans because I couldn't get Americans to do the jobs. If this country didn't have Mexicans to work in the fields, this country would go hungry.

God forbid we did anything right in this country and actually threw out the people who don't belong in this country.. Sheeeesh.. What would happen?: Well Americans might start getting honest pay for honest work.. we may stimulate the economy... Americans don't take jobs they don't want - Americans don't take jobs that don't pay... I'm sick and tired of paying for illegals health care, food stamps, WIC, low-income-housing, when my own fellow Americans who are born here don't "qualify", while these illegals are driving $40k SUVs.. Get real - build a fence.. and get them all the F* outa here.

Originally posted by Chilled1
God forbid we did anything right in this country and actually threw out the people who don't belong in this country.. Sheeeesh.. What would happen?: Well Americans might start getting honest pay for honest work.. we may stimulate the economy... Americans don't take jobs they don't want - Americans don't take jobs that don't pay... I'm sick and tired of paying for illegals health care, food stamps, WIC, low-income-housing, when my own fellow Americans who are born here don't "qualify", while these illegals are driving $40k SUVs.. Get real - build a fence.. and get them all the F* outa here.

If the Americans would get off their lazy aZZes and get a job, the Mexicans would not be here in the first place. I know for a fact that it is impossible to get Americans to work in the fields and from what I hear the construction industry too. The problem with the Americans is that they have learned how to get a government check coming so they don't have to work. Don't tell me that it's not true because I live by three that are at least as able as I am to work and they will not because they came up with some "problem" to get a disability check. If I see a Mexican driving a $40K SUV that he worked hard in the fields or on a construction job to earn the money, THEN MORE POWER TO HIM!!!

The Illigal Alien problem is just that, a big problem...


That Article is terrible, a peice of nothing but a little fear-mongering... that should be easy enough to see...


Heres what i think will happen... ill break it down into a couple Catagories:


Negative Short Term(0-12 months):
A readjustment in produce, that slightly raises the Prices of Food.


Positive Short Term:
HS and College students all of a sudden would have millions of jobs, putting Money into the Hands of hard working Americans
Less outbreaks of deadly 3rd world desiaeses
Less time waiting at the hospital
IMIDEATE drop in ALL Crime
Public Schools will have MUCH less students, haveing a higher teacher:Student Ratio


Negative Long Term Effects(1-20 years):
Decrease in population
Big Corps lose money as some 15-40 million consumers are gone.

Positive Long Term:
An increase in money, as free-loading illigals are off the free-ride
The Restablishment of the USDA as the premir drugs and food in the world
Revitilized American Nationalism
Increase in Goverment Programs for American Citizens
More Money STAYING in America


But then again, i dont have a degree form a Prestigiuos University, and i didnt major in journalism...


The article is so bad... epicly bad... top of the line Propaganda...

If this article fools you, you are a moron, im sorry... read this line...

... argues that studies show that immigrants in general are less likely to commit crimes or to end up behind bars than native-born Americans

First, we are talking ILLIGAL immigrants, not Legal Imigrants, its just plain Dumb to puut Legal Immigrants from Germany or Sweeden in with the same Group as the Illigal Mexicans who run across the boarder...

Now, since we are talking about ILLIGAL immigrants, and not all immigrants, lets just LOGICALY think about thier crime Rates...

Each person who breaks into this country ILLIGALY, is a FEDERAL Criminal! That Means, that 100% of ALL Illigal Aliens are Criminals. That is just a fact, you may not like it, but you have to deal with it.

I am not a Criminal, therefore, less then 100% of American Citizens are Criminals... That, also is a fact...


Therefore, by a VERY simple procces using logic, it VERY clear that Iligals Aliens COMMIT more Crime. But, such simple logic is lost on the minds who are in control of the media... its sick, but that too is also a fact...

So Basicly... the People that would be worst off, Big Buisness Owners, who measure profits in BILLIONS... and Custemers in Millions...

The Removal of ALL illigals would Benifit 99.9 % of Americans. MABYE, MABYE would hurt the Uber-Corperate leaders... like the Bill Gates, and the Walmart guy... so realy, dont shed a tear for the biullionaires, support your American Brothers and Sisters...


And Lets work together to REMOVE ALL ILLIGALS... do everything you can, report your landlord if they rent to illigals, report resturants that employe illigals, report Lawn Servcies that Hire illigals, report, report, report... AND JUST HOPE THAT you dont live in a Sancuary City Like Los Angles, or San Fransicko...

All immigration does is decrease salaries and jack up the cost of housing. At one time, countries need immigration to build the nation, that time has now passed.

If local citizens won't fill some jobs (such as picking crops in the field and washing dishes), the solution is not unrestrained immigration (legal or illegal). The solution is a guest worker program. For example, you have the right to work in the country for four months as an agricultural worker and then you have to go home. No one would object to that.

In Canada, there is a major fruit and vegetable area around Leamington, Ontario. They had a problem getting someone to pick their crops. The federal government had people from the Carribean come to do that job on a temporary basis. They soon found that they never went home, they just skipped off to Toronto and Montreal when their working contract expired.

Today there are thousands of temporary workers from Mexico doing that job. Here are the rules:

The Mexican worker must be at least 35 years old, married, with kids back home in Mexico (which basically stops them from staying in the country when the work contract ends).

The Mexican worker must not have a criminal record and pass a medical test (the Canadian government soon learned to send their own doctors to Mexico because the local doctor could be bribed if the applicant failed the medical test).

The farmer is responsible for flying the worker to Canada and flying him home to Mexico. The farmer is also responsible for finding accomodation for the Mexican worker.

The Mexican worker shows up (as per his contract). If for some reason the weather doesn't permit planting or harvesting the Mexican worker gets to sit on his ass and watch TV and gets paid to do so (not his fault that the fields are too wet to plant, he is only allowed in as an agricultural worker, he is not allowed to work on anything else).

The system works for both parties. The farmer gets his workers and the Mexican worker gets paid. If both sides get along, they work again year after year. The Mexican worker makes enough in those four months to not have to work for the rest of the year in Mexico.

No one gets ripped off, the system is managed and controlled. That is how it should be. Anyone permitting illegals in the country has their own agenda (such as slimey politicians looking for ethnic votes, greedy businessmen looking for cheap workers).

Originally posted by MischeviousElf
When should the cutoff point in heritage to stay in country?

I mean if you were born there its ok? but your parents not?

How about if your grandfather came to your country should we still send back these "immigrants"

This problem, though thankfully for once not being supported here is just illogical.

If I have the best genealogical history in my country (and I have gone back a long way, hundreds of years, total Celt Mix of Welsh, Irish Scottish no English at all in me!) as I may postulate lol, eventually I will find those Celts from the Gypsies and Indians who walked over the foothills of Russia into Europe a long time ago.

Should I therefor not be allowed here and sent back to India even though I'm White and Caucasian and appear to a have a different race to the Indian/Asian Culture? but look I must of come from there originally.

Now when we all do this we will all get to the same point, that our Heritage leads back to somewhere near the rift Valley in Africa.

Lets deport everyone now back home, just don't think 6 billion people will live in one country.

Maybe just maybe we should have worked it out by now, hey whoever you are reading this,
my great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great,

Grandfather was making out with YOUR

great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great great

Grandmother somewhere in Africa long long long time ago!

Hey Brother sister how are you? welcome and enjoy, is my view! cos we cant all fit in that one place where we all come from!

Kind Regards,

Elf

[edit on 9-7-2008 by MischeviousElf]

well one must have a sense of perspective, let us just start by deporting all illegals, starting with any who have broken the law.

Originally posted by MBF

Originally posted by Chilled1
God forbid we did anything right in this country and actually threw out the people who don't belong in this country.. Sheeeesh.. What would happen?: Well Americans might start getting honest pay for honest work.. we may stimulate the economy... Americans don't take jobs they don't want - Americans don't take jobs that don't pay... I'm sick and tired of paying for illegals health care, food stamps, WIC, low-income-housing, when my own fellow Americans who are born here don't "qualify", while these illegals are driving $40k SUVs.. Get real - build a fence.. and get them all the F* outa here.

If the Americans would get off their lazy aZZes and get a job, the Mexicans would not be here in the first place. I know for a fact that it is impossible to get Americans to work in the fields and from what I hear the construction industry too. The problem with the Americans is that they have learned how to get a government check coming so they don't have to work. Don't tell me that it's not true because I live by three that are at least as able as I am to work and they will not because they came up with some "problem" to get a disability check. If I see a Mexican driving a $40K SUV that he worked hard in the fields or on a construction job to earn the money, THEN MORE POWER TO HIM!!!

ok...let's open the borders to everybody then...but of course, ONLY IF YOUR JOB IS SAFE, right? i worked in the computer field and in 1997 i was making 48k a year, now that job is being done by an H1B worker from india for 26k a year. and the H1B worker doesn't complain about having to work off the clock, no vacation, no benefits because if he does he is immediately sent back to india. a race to the bottom for the middle class and a lower class of american workers never getting the chance to get ahead, because there is always someone from another country ready and willing to come do his job, if he ask for a cost of living raise or even a raise because he has experience. the employer just "hints" that he can get someone else that would be more appreciative of the job opportunity. there is alot of money being thrown at this, from all the big business and small business associations to keep saying how there are all these lazy americans. if your not in a professional field and just a common worker...kiss away any chance of getting ahead...the cost of living will go up higher then your wages will, and you'll slowly be moving downward. so...keep fighting among yourselves and trashing each other, because you know why?....IT'S GREAT FOR BUSINESS!!!!!!!!!

oh and by the way...look up why the the labor unions were formed. it was exactly because of these conditions and sentiments.

[edit on 10-7-2008 by jimmyx]