Atheist soldier sues Army for 'unconstitutional' discrimination, page 1

posted on Jul, 8 2008 @ 10:25 PM

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Atheist soldier sues Army for \

www.cnn.com

Army Spc. Jeremy Hall was raised Baptist.

Like many Christians, he said grace before dinner and read the Bible before bed. Four years ago when he was deployed to Iraq, he packed his Bible so he would feel closer to God.

(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 8-7-2008 by Bunch]

Bunch

posted on Jul, 8 2008 @ 10:25 PM

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I dont know why this guy even waste his time with this lawsuit. Granted that he has all the right as a citizens but I dont think this is going to have much impact on the military because the military is a group that is predominantely made of christians.

www.cnn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

BlasteR

posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 11:28 PM

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This story should be getting more attention.. I saw the video of this soldier on CNN today and I must say the story was mind boggling. One of the better CNN Videos I have ever seen. This guy has a pretty remarkable case and it just goes to show how insane religious idealism can make people.. Screw these bastards. I don't give 2 scoops what religion you are.. If you are in the military, keep it to yourself on sundays. Noone's religious baggage should decide who gets promoted, who doesn't, who people think would be a good leader, who thinks who is a good soldier, etc.. This guy was given death threats for being an atheist! How wonderful religion is....

-ChriS

Karlhungis

posted on Jul, 14 2008 @ 11:38 PM

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I served in the military and I never saw a single case of religious discrimination, ever. I think this guy has people wanting to hurt him for other reasons and he is using his religious beliefs as an excuse to get attention, and it is working.

There are plenty of Muslims who serve in the military and if anyone would get discriminated against, you would think it would be them, but they don't either. Even during Ramadan when they have to fast all day, no one ever cared. As long as everyone pulls their own weight, no one cares what religion you are.

I have discussed this with other military members and former military members and everyone I have talked to thinks this is BS.

Bunch

posted on Jul, 15 2008 @ 12:13 AM

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As a current member serving I will tell you that in the military who eve dont practice any form of religion is looed at in a bad way, not meaning that someone would like to kill another member for been atheist but they are really look in a bad way.

Karlhungis

posted on Jul, 15 2008 @ 12:17 AM

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reply to post by Bunch

If they aren't shoving it in your face, how do you even know what religion someone is? If they are shoving it in your face, then obviously it is a personality problem not a religious problem, since that just isn't something you do.

That is just a completely different experience than I had. I had Roman Catholic on my dog tags, but the only time I ever even went to church was in boot camp. No one ever made a comment to me about my religion in the 4 years I was in.

Bunch

posted on Jul, 15 2008 @ 12:23 AM

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reply to post by Karlhungis

Well you might have a point, many of the guys I have met that are atheist like to make fun and ridicule those who like to exercise their right to practice faith, it has happen to me in numerous occasions they put themselves out there so everyone can spot them not knowing that maybe the guy that you are making fun of might sit on your promotion or award board next week.

[edit on 15-7-2008 by Bunch]

Karlhungis

posted on Jul, 15 2008 @ 12:29 AM

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reply to post by Bunch

See, that makes more sense. It isn't about religion, it is about being socially retarded. Anyone who thinks they are superior to everyone else in their unit is going to have a hard time. The more vocal they are about their superiority, the harder their time will be.

It is a band of brothers and you simply don't treat people that way. Especially in this day and age when you are at war, a persons religion is a lot more important to them. So to have someone running around calling you an idiot for what you believe in, it would make sense that people would try to "sort him out".

It is unfortunate that this has made CNN.

BlasteR

posted on Jul, 15 2008 @ 03:16 AM

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I honestly understand what both of you are saying.. I myself was in the Air Force for 6 years and religious discussion was never taken lightly and NEVER discussed except in basic training. It was always frowned upon.. But hear this..

There are organisations out there which are pro-christian organisations that are pushing to get more and more military membership. Organisations like the "Officer's Christian Fellowship" which, as the cnn video states, is to create:

"A spiritually transformed military, with ambassadors for Christ in uniform, empowered by the holy spirit..."

Or the "Christian Embassy" which actually took videos of officers in the pentagon praying together and talking about their faith in conference rooms. These officers were quickly reprimanded for their actions, but make no mistake about it.. If the claims of this troop hold any water whatsoever, it is clear proof that the military discriminates against people who are atheists. Death threats, denied promotions due to not being a christian leader and refusing to pray with his fellow troops, etc..etc..etc..

A federal lawsuit like this would not be moving forward unless it had some kind of substance. I mean.. The military was so concerned for his safety after getting death threats that they actually assigned him a full-time bodyguard.. They even sent him home early from Iraq!

This organisation called the "Military Religoius Freedom Foundation" has recieved around 8,000 complaints from military members regarding similar circumstances of troops being pressured to join evangelical christianity..

In the cnn video, deputy undersecretary Bill Carr sais that complaints of evangelizing are relatively rare, and that "If an atheist chose to follow their convictions, absolutely that's acceptable".. If this kind of thing happened all the time, you would think we would have heard about it. How many troops has this kind of thing happened to that we never heard about? Most troops would probably decide NOT to take on the government like this for obvious reasons, therefore, IMO it is likely that there are MANY troops that have experienced similar situations but never decided to come public.

Check this out...
Military Evangelism Deeper, Wider Than First Thought
by Jason Leopold
www.globalresearch.ca...

Military Ministry says its staffers are responsible for "working with Chaplains and Military personnel to bring lost soldiers closer to Christ, build them in their faith and send them out into the world as Government paid missionaries" - which appears to be a clear-cut violation of federal law governing the separation of church and state.

"Young recruits are under great pressure as they enter the military at their initial training gateways," the group has stated on its web site. "The demands of drill instructors push recruits and new cadets to the edge. This is why they are most open to the 'good news.' We target specific locations, like Lackland AFB [Air Force base] and Fort Jackson, where large numbers of military members transition early in their career. These sites are excellent locations to pursue our strategic goals."

Mikey Weinstein, the founder and president of the government watchdog organization the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, whose group has been closely tracking Military Ministry's activities at Fort Jackson and other military bases around the country, said in an interview that using "the machinery of the state" to promote any form of religion is "not only unconstitutional and un-American but it also creates a national security threat of the first order."

A six-month investigation by MRFF has found Military Ministry's staff has successfully targeted US soldiers entering basic training at Lackland Air Force Base and Fort Sam Houston, with the approval of the Army base's top commanders.

"I've said it before and I will say it again," Weinstein said. "We are in the process of creating a fundamentalist Christian Taliban and somebody has to do something to stop it now."

And ,Currently, the ACLU is threatening lawsuits from members of westpoint whom are required to pray at mealtime.. It seems clear that there is a real problem here but to what degree is, of coarse, unknown. Especially, as I said before, most troops probably don't want to take on the government.

-ChriS

Conspiriology

posted on Jul, 15 2008 @ 08:48 AM

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Originally posted by Karlhungis
I served in the military and I never saw a single case of religious discrimination, ever. I think this guy has people wanting to hurt him for other reasons and he is using his religious beliefs as an excuse to get attention, and it is working.

There are plenty of Muslims who serve in the military and if anyone would get discriminated against, you would think it would be them, but they don't either. Even during Ramadan when they have to fast all day, no one ever cared. As long as everyone pulls their own weight, no one cares what religion you are.

I have discussed this with other military members and former military members and everyone I have talked to thinks this is BS.

I completely agree, this is just another mouthy atheist who like most atheidt here on ATS that have to preach the tenets of the religion they say isn't a religion but call it religious discrimination when it suits them that their non belief is somehow a belief after all. I spent 6 years in the military myself and never once did I see anyone start prayers where if you didn't comply you were the target for more discrimination.

I get so damn tired of this BS and it is Bullcrap furthermore he doesn't HAVE any damn constitutional rights like a civilian has. The part about this that makes it sound so phony is it is almost identical to another story 6 mos ago almost identical mis treatment. No body knows who is an atheist just by looking at them and I know he was preaching that crap and it pissed people off just as much as when Christians do it. Otherwise I don't see what all the fuss was about if he had kept his damn mouth shut.

When you are in an environment where ones right to excercise their religious freedom has to take a back seat to the ONE atheist who has no religion to excercise, no prayer to pray no God than he has the right to NOT be religious BUT THAT'S IT! If it offends him when others are,, TOO BAD! He'll live and he'll get over it too.

Many of those guys over there are going to die and they know it and many of them who believe they are going to meet their maker, want to be prepared for it. Whether he believes in that or not, the fact is he just might meet his maker regardless of his being offended by same.

If that happens,, I sure as hell wouldn't want to be

in his shoes

- Con

[edit on 15-7-2008 by Conspiriology]

BlasteR

posted on Jul, 15 2008 @ 08:02 PM

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You make it sound like this guy is a whiner and doing this for attention. But this is a federal court case... This isn't just some attention-seeking troop coming public with his experiences. It is well documented that christian organisations use specific military bases to push forward with their own religious objectives. And this isn't someone coming forward whining about other religions and why one belief system has to follow the traditions and customs of another. That isn't what this case is about.

This case isn't just about whether or not someone felt offended by another religion in some way. This guy was given death threats to the point where the military actually gave him a full time bodyguard and sent him home early from Iraq. If this guy really was discriminated against in any way (regardless of what anyone thinks), and there is some kind of evidence to support that, (which they probably wouldn't fully disclose anyway at this point) this guy has one hell of a federal court case..

-ChriS

[edit on 15-7-2008 by BlasteR]

Conspiriology

posted on Jul, 15 2008 @ 08:26 PM

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Originally posted by BlasteR
This case isn't just about whether or not someone felt offended by another religion in some way. This guy was given death threats to the point where the military actually gave him a full time bodyguard and sent him home early from Iraq. If this guy really was discriminated against in any way (regardless of what anyone thinks), and there is some kind of evidence to support that, (which they probably wouldn't fully disclose anyway at this point) this guy has one hell of a federal court case..

-ChriS

Yeah and I'm saying I don't believe a damn word of it moreover I don't have a problem with those Christian groups in the military spreading the gospel. They don't put a damn gun to your head. As soon as i saw the ACLU was involved then that is all I had to see. The story, the way someone asked him if he still didn't believe in Jesus after his humvee was attacked, Gimme a break guy, their are lots and lots of atheists in the military and This one just happened to be so strong an atheist or for some reason his Atheism was so damn hard to accept he started getting DEATH THREATS! He was soooooo unacceptably atheist he had to be led by BODY GUARDS! Get REAL!

I know what this guy is doing and he will lose his case ipso facto and yes he is an instigating whining wussy mouthy arrogant bitch who most likely didn't know when to shut his bootcamp noob mouth when he started makinhg fun of Jesus and calling him the flying spaghetti monster, disrupting fellowship with his latest googled contradictions of the Bible and pissed em off so much they wanted to kill em

That I can believe because I have seen it happen that way. All this merely because he is an atheist?

Nope.

Too far fetched but it makes a good case among many the ACLU will use to rid the Military of every symbol, sign, cross, bible, prayer time, moment of silence, chaplain they can possibly effect. That is why this guys case got so much damn attention and why his case sounds so much like the last ones because to prove a case like this you have a protocol where such violations have to be worded just right and a list of events have to have happened to prove the case on the grounds his civil rights are being violated.

As for an atheist not whining?
GuFAW!! That will be the day

- Con

BlasteR

posted on Jul, 15 2008 @ 10:49 PM

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Originally posted by Conspiriology[/i
Yeah and I'm saying I don't believe a damn word of it moreover I don't have a problem with those Christian groups in the military spreading the gospel. They don't put a damn gun to your head. As soon as i saw the ACLU was involved then that is all I had to see. The story, the way someone asked him if he still didn't believe in Jesus after his humvee was attacked, Gimme a break guy, their are lots and lots of atheists in the military and This one just happened to be so strong an atheist or for some reason his Atheism was so damn hard to accept he started getting DEATH THREATS! He was soooooo unacceptably atheist he had to be led by BODY GUARDS! Get REAL!

I know what this guy is doing and he will lose his case ipso facto and yes he is an instigating whining wussy mouthy arrogant bitch who most likely didn't know when to shut his bootcamp noob mouth when he started makinhg fun of Jesus and calling him the flying spaghetti monster, disrupting fellowship with his latest googled contradictions of the Bible and pissed em off so much they wanted to kill em

That I can believe because I have seen it happen that way. All this merely because he is an atheist?

Nope.

Too far fetched but it makes a good case among many the ACLU will use to rid the Military of every symbol, sign, cross, bible, prayer time, moment of silence, chaplain they can possibly effect. That is why this guys case got so much damn attention and why his case sounds so much like the last ones because to prove a case like this you have a protocol where such violations have to be worded just right and a list of events have to have happened to prove the case on the grounds his civil rights are being violated.

As for an atheist not whining?
GuFAW!! That will be the day

- Con

That's like saying who cares about islamic extremists because they won't put a gun to your head. There may have been a time when that was true.. But it sure as hell isn't today. You may not see evangelical Christians killing people right now but the situation in the Western world is nowhere near as grim as it is in the middle east right now. But humans have ALWAYS killed other human beings over religion and spiritual differences and today is no different. Any human being will kill another human being if pushed to their limits. And within a religious sect or ideaology that is pushing it's own agenda and willing to blur the line between church and state, human killing could easily be justified in the name of God if they are pushed far enough.

That is because all the religions, all the religious sects and offshoots, they are all man-made creations that all ideaologically conflict with one another. Religion is a man-made fallacy and the entire Christian religion was designed by the Romans to control the population. It was based upon astrological and dogmatic principles that were basically stolen from other religions and other spiritual beliefs.

I honestly don't care what religion you are or anyone else is. It is all ridiculous bunk based on whatever "God" you ascribe to and whatever ridiuclous beliefs you are then willing to subscribe to as a result of being affilitated with that religion. It doesn't make sense.. Refuse to submit to God and you will burn in hell? What about the 99.9 percent of other religious and spiritual views out there? Are they wrong? The odds would say you are wrong if anything! But I guess that's where faith comes in..

The reason this troop was treated like this was not because of the degree of his atheism. He was not "so atheist he had to be led around by bodyguards". You are completely missing the entire point... This was probably a unique situation with unique circumstances. He was, therefore by legal terminology, discriminated against because of what events transpired.. And if, by your post, you are trying to justify a death threat in the name of god then so be it. That just proves my point!

This video should enlighten anyone into understanding why religion is a man-made myth.

-ChriS

[edit on 15-7-2008 by BlasteR]

BlasteR

posted on Jul, 15 2008 @ 11:14 PM
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-ChriS

Karlhungis

posted on Jul, 15 2008 @ 11:15 PM
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reply to post by BlasteR

These troops are being attacked every day by radical muslims, yet for some reason they don't mind serving with muslims. Now for some reason, they want to kill a guy for a lack of belief???? Somehow I doubt it.

This has nothing to do with religion.

Conspiriology

posted on Jul, 16 2008 @ 12:37 AM
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Originally posted by BlasteR

That's like saying who cares about islamic extremists because they won't put a gun to your head.

No! It isn't anything LIKE Islamic extremists because Islamic extremists WILL put a gun to your head!

There may have been a time when that was true.. But it sure as hell isn't today. You may not see evangelical Christians killing people right now but the situation in the Western world is nowhere near as grim as it is in the middle east right now. But humans have ALWAYS killed other human beings over religion and spiritual differences and today is no different. Any human being will kill another human being if pushed to their limits. And within a religious sect or ideology that is pushing it's own agenda and willing to blur the line between church and state, human killing could easily be justified in the name of God if they are pushed far enough.

Guy just LOOK at what you are saying here,, I mean for God sakes you are proving my point. Yeah yeah yeah,, whaaaa the Salem witch trials where a dozen woman were killed by a fringe of nutcases. Atheists would have us believe a hundred thousand were killed. Then lets not forget the crusades! where underneath the spoils of war was a geo political impasse that was started by Muslims and Christians fought and yeah it was bloody but if you want to find common denominators among tyrants and people that have killed more than any other ideological worldview in world history, it is Atheist materialist humanists. Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, the Khamir rouge to name a few.

So yeah we can play tit for tat like that and you can give your Atheist revisionist history lesson of the roman Catholic Church and bitch about it like it happened yesterday never ever letting it go. Ya know what pal YOU are proving my point again, yeah I get it you swallowed one of Dickie Dawkins silly books saying your cousin and ancestor was MaGilla Gorilla, I get it you think you are part of the so called "science" Clique of in your face angry atheists, but I am part of a new Christian movement that is sick and tired of hearing atheists whine bitch and moan. We get tired of hearing about evolution and it offends our religion so we are deciding to sue public schools for church and state the same way Atheists did to us because the word "God" offends them.

The reason this troop was treated like this was not because of the degree of his atheism. He was not "so atheist he had to be led around by bodyguards". You are completely missing the entire point... This was probably a unique situation with unique circumstances. He was, therefore by legal terminology, discriminated against because of what events transpired.. And if, by your post, you are trying to justify a death threat in the name of god then so be it. That just proves my point!

You aren't a Federal Judge and as far as I am aware NO decision was adjudicated. So spare me your mundane platitudes about what YOU think this is a case of. This is no different than the kind of arguments I just suckered you into and you did what every atheist does and started insulting my religion.

Now when YOU are in the military,, YOU DON'T DO THAT because most of those Christians those silly dumb faith believing know nothings, will die for this country and that means to defend YOUR right to talk smack about my Lord and My GOD. That's ok I'm fine with that.

But I am not so sure they would be all that in a hurry to cover that whining bastard especially if he insulted my religious belief, my lord and my God the way YOU just did mine adding insult to injury with that already debunked 100 times video.

Yaw see guy,, I only spoke about our Atheist friend in the article but you went right for bait and have every desire to violate my civil rights to religious expression if you have to ridicule me into doing it, sue me into doing it, create trumped up Bullcrap charges using the Machiavellian machinations of the Quasi Communist Atheist ACLU or any means necessary.

In the military, you'd be a punch in the face waiting to happen.

This Phony whining crybaby Atheist,, needed a body guard the same way you would for talking smack. Ya see they just can't resist poking the bear. They just can't stop at "No thank you, I'm Atheist" NO they have to start telling a bunch a bullcrap religious hate fables about how religions were copied from other pagan religions and completely miss the OT was well before any of them.

Underneath it all,, you show the same fear and hatred for God while you actively disbelieve in him 24/7 your whole persona is transparent but your atheist agenda is even more crystal clear.

The only reason you side with this Atheist agitator, is that YOU are an Atheist,, just another random mutation,,

Talking out Both sides

of his mouth

- Con

zerbot565

posted on Jul, 16 2008 @ 12:45 AM
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thou shall not kill ,

all them in the military killing and what not in gods name
are just as idiotic as the next fellow beliving in a holy book
that forbids killing even in the name of god and doing the total opposit

acturly the army should praise atheist for not wasting the militarys time
on hocku pockus when its real lives you are to protect and not the thought of god

Queen Maeve

posted on Jul, 16 2008 @ 12:49 AM
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I care about religious discrimination a lot, but there is something with this that makes me feel like maybe the guy is using this religion thing when it is all about something else. That's just my gut reaction.

Now if he can prove something, more power to him. But if it turns out he's really just some creep with a bad attitude ... 'nuff said.

Conspiriology

posted on Jul, 16 2008 @ 01:04 AM
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Originally posted by zerbot565
thou shall not kill ,

all them in the military killing and what not in gods name
are just as idiotic as the next fellow beliving in a holy book
that forbids killing even in the name of god and doing the total opposit

acturly the army should praise atheist for not wasting the militarys time
on hocku pockus when its real lives you are to protect and not the thought of god

They are killing not commiting murder and where do you get this crap they are doing it in Gods name. Yes we all appreciate Atheists just stay home because they end up just getting in the way or to scared to risk the only hedonistic self serving self centered materialist life they got. That's why no one trusts em to watch their backs you can smell their fear a mile away. Sniff sniff yep lol

No Atheists in Fox holes they used to say.

Like they care about killing anyone

Stalin ring a bell?

- Con

[edit on 16-7-2008 by Conspiriology]

zerbot565

posted on Jul, 16 2008 @ 01:14 AM
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whats the diffrence in killing and comitting murder ?

mabye you should open up the bible and read throu it , it is mostly about hedonistic self self serving self centered materialist and their way of life