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Ernst Zundel and the Holocaust

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posted on Mar, 8 2004 @ 12:32 AM
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I was wondering what the general consensus of Ernst Zundel is here on ATS. Is he crazy? If so why is he being held as a political prisioner in Canada even though he's never been charged with a crime?

For those of you who dont know who he is and wish to find out here is his website: www.zundelsite.org...

Anyways what do you guys think? I await your replies.




posted on Mar, 8 2004 @ 01:11 AM
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Eh, this may interest you.

www.www-webmaster.com...



posted on Mar, 8 2004 @ 07:03 PM
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*BUMP*

Come on people. Someone here must have an opinion on this.



posted on Mar, 8 2004 @ 07:06 PM
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He's in our fine institution now. I do beleive that he has been charged. Will look into it.



posted on Mar, 8 2004 @ 07:30 PM
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He came to Canada in 1958 and has used us as his home base for the vile crap he spews. He married an American and moved south a couple of years, but was deported back to Canada where he has been stripped of his citizenship and is fighting his deportation to Germany theglobeandmail.com...

He is being held under laws and processes that have been enacted since 911 (Patriot Act Lite) and the controversy stems from the use of these laws and the governments secret case against him. Canadians just want him the hell out.



posted on Mar, 8 2004 @ 08:40 PM
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Originally posted by deevee
He came to Canada in 1958 and has used us as his home base for the vile crap he spews. He married an American and moved south a couple of years, but was deported back to Canada where he has been stripped of his citizenship and is fighting his deportation to Germany theglobeandmail.com...

He is being held under laws and processes that have been enacted since 911 (Patriot Act Lite) and the controversy stems from the use of these laws and the governments secret case against him. Canadians just want him the hell out.


I know all that stuff. But what makes me wonder is the fact that he is basically being held in jail because he has some unpopular ideas. And Jewish groups have been trying to shut him up for decades. Why? If he is just some crazy guy why go trough all the trouble to shut him up in the first place? Seems to me that if he is just spreading "lies" the best way to deal with him is let him make an ass out of himself. But no. He has been attacked and persecuted for his beliefs.

Now let me make this clear. Im not saying he's right or wrong. But it does make you wonder.



posted on Mar, 8 2004 @ 08:53 PM
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Ernst Zundel, civil-rights champion?
After more than a year in solitary confinement, Canada's most famous Holocaust denier is still fighting deportation, KIRK MAKIN reports, and he may rewrite the law in the process. All because he wants to know what the secret case is against him

Where Truth is Destiny: Now more than ever!
"Public opinion is beginning to turn towards Ernst and away from his persecutors. Ernst has not been charged with a crime, let alone convicted. The bottom line is that Ernst is being persecuted for questioning dogma, exactly the same crime for which Galileo was tortured. Truth needs no laws to support it. Throughout history, it
is only lies that required the force of the courts to mandate belief."



posted on Mar, 8 2004 @ 09:02 PM
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Agent testifies against Zundel
TORONTO (CP) - The strongest evidence that Holocaust denier Ernst Zundel is a threat to national security is contained in classified documents, a government agent suggested Friday during testimony in Federal Court.

Who Is Ernst Zundel And Why is he in Jail?
For more than six months now, Ernst Zundel has been held without charge in solitary confinement in Canada on the pretext that he a threat to national security. In fact, this 64-year-old German-born writer, publisher and civil rights activist is a political prisoner and a victim of great injustice.

Who is this man, and why is his case important?

Zundel was arrested at his home in Tennessee on Feb. 5, where he had been living peacefully with his wife, Ingrid Rimland, on the pretext that he missed an interview date with immigration authorities. Two weeks later he was deported to Canada, even though his wife is an American citizen.



posted on Mar, 9 2004 @ 03:54 AM
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Originally posted by Ocelot

Originally posted by deevee
He came to Canada in 1958 and has used us as his home base for the vile crap he spews. He married an American and moved south a couple of years, but was deported back to Canada where he has been stripped of his citizenship and is fighting his deportation to Germany theglobeandmail.com...

He is being held under laws and processes that have been enacted since 911 (Patriot Act Lite) and the controversy stems from the use of these laws and the governments secret case against him. Canadians just want him the hell out.


I know all that stuff. But what makes me wonder is the fact that he is basically being held in jail because he has some unpopular ideas. And Jewish groups have been trying to shut him up for decades. Why? If he is just some crazy guy why go trough all the trouble to shut him up in the first place? Seems to me that if he is just spreading "lies" the best way to deal with him is let him make an ass out of himself. But no. He has been attacked and persecuted for his beliefs.

Now let me make this clear. Im not saying he's right or wrong. But it does make you wonder.



posted on Mar, 9 2004 @ 04:00 AM
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Of course he's being nailed for his beliefs. He was originally prosecuted under hate crime laws.

If his message was peace love and understanding this wouldn't be happening to him. (sorry for double post, 5 am, just woke up, brain and body not yet work
)



posted on Mar, 9 2004 @ 06:47 PM
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Checked it out today. Zundel has not been charged, he's facing deportation to Germany, where he is facing some serious charges. The reason he is still here is that he is fighting the deportation. So basically, his choices are jail here or jail in Germany. It's his choice so don't give him the sympathy he seem to want you to feel for his plight.



posted on Mar, 9 2004 @ 07:10 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid
Checked it out today. Zundel has not been charged, he's facing deportation to Germany, where he is facing some serious charges. The reason he is still here is that he is fighting the deportation. So basically, his choices are jail here or jail in Germany. It's his choice so don't give him the sympathy he seem to want you to feel for his plight.


What crimes is he being charged with in Germany? What did he kill someone or something?



posted on Mar, 9 2004 @ 07:15 PM
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From what I read, he's not denying that the holocaust happened, he's saying that the number of 6million jews killed is an exaggeration. Plus he's saying that the camps were only 'Work camps' and not 'Death camps'. Try telling that to the poor buggers in Auchwitz !

If he's extradited to Germany to face charges of this, he's well and truly fecked. The Germans are very tough on anyone even remotely linked to the Third Reich and their ideas.

For Example, this article was published last month:

A GERMAN man who taught his dog the stiff-arm Nazi salute was handed a 13-month suspended sentence today for shouting "Sieg Heil" in public and wearing a T-shirt with a picture of Adolf Hitler on it.

A Berlin administrative court found the 54-year-old man, who was only identified as Ronald T, guilty of displaying Nazi symbols and insulting a policeman last March.

Police had stopped the man after he was heard shouting the Nazi slogan. While the police watched, the man also commanded his dog, named Adolf, to raise its right paw upon the command "Do the salute".

Authorities initially pressed charges for training the dog to perform the salute, but they were later dropped.

Displaying Nazi symbols in public is a crime in Germany under laws meant to prevent any recurrence of Nazism.


German dog taught Nazi salute



posted on Mar, 9 2004 @ 07:16 PM
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I'll have to ask, not really sure. I haven't taken an interest in this until now.



posted on Mar, 11 2004 @ 05:20 PM
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Apparently, Zundel was spreading his anti-jewish rantings in the 50's. It may seem like a small thing now, but in postwar Germany this was huge. They were still dealing with the aftermath of the holocost, and world opinion, and this guy comes around and says it didn't happen, as well as other anti-jewish propaganda.



posted on Mar, 11 2004 @ 06:32 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid
They were still dealing with the aftermath of the holocost, and world opinion, and this guy comes around and says it didn't happen, as well as other anti-jewish propaganda.


Still I dont think someone should be put in jail for having an opinion. No matter how wrong people think it is.



posted on Mar, 11 2004 @ 06:46 PM
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Still I dont think someone should be put in jail for having an opinion. No matter how wrong people think it is.



As much as I hate to protect someone like that I must agree.

Free speach isnt just speach you agree with.


But I would still like to kick his ass......LOL



posted on Mar, 11 2004 @ 07:28 PM
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I'm not defending it, I'm just reporting it. I think he's a nut and could care less what he says.



posted on Mar, 11 2004 @ 08:04 PM
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Libertarian and revisionist Mr. Ernst Zundel.....the man who has been proven wrong by and from the historical documents within the UN, from nine (9) Allied Armies, and of coarse, the victims that survived. Perhaps he has had time to read this book:

"DENYING HISTORY: WHO SAYS THE HOLOCAUST NEVER HAPPENED AND WHY DO THEY SAY IT?"
www.holocaust-trc.org...

Exerpts:

"You will not find a more straightforward Holocaust book than Denying History: Who Says the Holocaust Never Happened and Why Do They Say It? The authors' basic argument is this: The extermination of six million Jews during the Second World War is a historical fact. Those who deny it are wrong.

It's hardly a provocative thesis. But ask yourself this: Would you be able to refute a Holocaust denier? The fact of the Holocaust is like the spherical Earth: Every reasonable person accepts it, but few can prove it. That is why Skeptic magazine publisher Michael Shermer teamed up with historian Alex Grobman to write Denying History. They believe thinking people have a duty to fight Holocaust denial head on; and they want them to come to the battle armed with historical facts.

But, as Denying History makes clear, there is still a mountain of evidence proving the nature and scale of the Holocaust. The Nazis'use of gas chambers has been established by, among countless other sources, the 1946 Nuremberg confession of Auschwitz commandant Rudolf Hss, as well as the 250-page autobiographical manuscript he wrote while awaiting execution. The estimate of six million killed is supported by a spate of historical studies, and also by Nazi physician Wilhelm Hoettel, who testified at Nuremberg that: "In the various concentration camps approximately four million Jews had been killed, while about two million were killed in other ways."


Another good read:

"False Prophets, fake skeptics: Holocaust denial in our time"
www.theness.com...

Excerpt:

"What have deniers of the Holocaust, whose movements have grown large and spread worldwide, asserted over the last 50 years? The following list outlines the most commonly shared formulas among the abovementioned parties (particularly Nazis) in the United States and Western Europe:
- that six million Jews were never killed, they were merely repatriated to Poland and Russia and, after the war, to America.
- that the "genocide of the Jews" is a Zionist myth designed to gain the world's sympathy and ultimately to generate profits for Judaic causes.
- that among those Jews who died in WWII, most perished from "natural causes" and "Allied bombs."
- that gas chambers were never applied to the murder of human beings (and particularly Jews) in WWII.
- that Hitler, the Nazis and the Third Reich did not instigate the Second World War. The Allies (influenced by the "Zionists") brought war to the Germans first. Specifically, elements within the International Jewish Conspiracy - not Hitler - prompted the governments of Allied nations to declare war on the German people."




Here's a pretty fair assessment of Mr. Zundel:

"Ernst Zundel:
Defending Hitler, Denying the Holocaust"

www.adl.org...

And the best one here:

"Holocaust denial"
en.wikipedia.org...

Excerpts:

"Canadian resident Ernst Zndel operates a small-press publishing house called Samisdat Publishing, which publishes and distributes Holocaust revisionism material such as Did Six Million Really Die? by Richard Harwood aka Richard Verrall (a British neo-Nazi leader). In 1985, he was tried and convicted under a "false news" law and sentenced to 15 months imprisonment by an Ontario court for "disseminating and publishing material denying the Holocaust." Zndel gained considerable notoriety after this conviction, and a number of free-speech activists stepped forward to defend his right to publish his opinion. His conviction was overturned in 1992 when the Supreme Court of Canada declared the "false news" law unconstitutional.

Zndel established his own Web site to publicize his revisionist viewpoint.

The figure "six million" (which is actually closer to eleven million, when counting the other ethnic, religious, and minority groups targeted for extinction) is often downgraded by revisionist claims to a figure of "only" one million deaths, or only three hundred thousand "casualties." Numerous documents archived and discovered after the war gave meticulous accounts of the exterminations that took place at the "death camps" (such as Auschwitz and Treblinka).

The most telling evidence is the testimony of thousands of survivors of the Holocaust, including the testimony of captured Nazi officers at the Nuremberg Trials. These accounts are discounted by Holocaust revisionists. When asked to refute the numerous individual stories and official testimonies, the revisionist argument has been to construct an elaborate conspiracy theory involving a massive "Jewish plan" to plant forged documents across the continent of Europe, aided by the supposed torture and forced confession of every single captured Nazi officer, soldier, and worker who testified at the war crimes tribunal."



And from Canada herself:
reports.fja.gc.ca...
reports.fja.gc.ca...



regards
seekerof



posted on Mar, 11 2004 @ 08:07 PM
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As Ususal you are a wealth of information Seekerof.


I will take a look at all the info you posted.



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