Granite v Copper

Sorry, first contibution, been a long time observer and probably got the wrong zone.

Gizza Plateau, not too far away from the pyramids, very close to the Sphinx and open to public is the, I think embalming room. The walls are made from Granite blocks around 4ft long 2ft deep and to me unknown depth, I'd guess around 2 to 3 feet.

These blocks are more or less perfect until one looks at the corner of the room. They're not corners, not 90 degree corners but curved, each layer of blocks overlaps the lower or upper course in a curve of aroud 6 inches, 150mm in real terms. This is granite not limestone or some other sedimetary rock but granite. Copper tools, even modern copper alloys would not scrape the surface.

There is no way that the building was built by guys with copper tools.

Proof of ancient advanced civilisations, very probably.

For the socialist, lefty sceptics, buy a chunk of pink granite and a two foot length of coper pipe, a hammer and peck away.

They chiseled the granite with flint. Flint is harder than granite. Already proven, look it up.

Originally posted by WinstontheDog

For the socialist, lefty sceptics, buy a chunk of pink granite and a two foot length of coper pipe, a hammer and peck away.

Way to make an impression, guy.

What a tool
you would need to split granite is a heavy wooden mallet and a wedge to score a straight line. if you can cut the circumference of the stone all the more likely you will make a straight cut. I got about 10 tons of granite at my disposal for experiments.

reply to post by stikkinikki


Very correct, they also cut it using sand underneath a bronze 'saw' - slow but sure - great if you got a large number of motivated guys to trade off

The methods

I look forward to scholarly and well reasoned denunciation of this evidence by reason of personal incredulity!

[edit on 28/6/08 by Hanslune]

Well, what considered responses

Flint cuts granite!

Bronze cuts granite?

I suggest you pair of socialist's do a google search on Mohr's scale.

Tungsten carbide drill bits struggle with this type of rock, bronze copper alloys have no chance. I have tried a standard one metre steel rule, the type you have in basic physic classes, with industrial diamond fragments, on a jig. It was wearing the steel not the granite.

That's the straight line cut, I have no idea how granite can be cut, shaped into a curve without 21st technology.

I'll explain this as simply as I can so the lefty pink furry cuddly people can understand...

If the hard working stone cutters of pharoh cheops started cutting those blocks 4000 years ago, passed on their skills to their sons and daughters over the years,had several hundred followers to sharpen their tools, make new ones, etc.

They would still be on the first block, cutting the first straight cut.

Flint does indeed cut granite. Here's words of warning from people who sell granite countertops.

6. Feldspar
This mineral cannot be scratched by a knife blade but it can easily be scratched with window glass. It is found in most igneous rocks, and is an essential component of crystalline rocks such as granite, gabbro, and basalt.

7. Quartz
This is the most common mineral and often the most beautiful. It will easily mark steel and hard glass. Quartz makes up the sand on our seashores and is found in sandstone and quartzite. Some varieties of quartz are used as gemstones. These include amethyst, bloodstone, crystal, flint, and onyx.

www.natural-stone-interiors.com...

The techniques are well known... while you may not have had the knowledge about cutting stones, they certainly did. You can cut and polish granite with sand. You can score a deep channel and then force it apart by pounding wedges into the rock.

In fact, this was the way that granite was cut and quarried until fairly recent times.

[edit on 7-7-2008 by Byrd]

Yeah, Ah what Byrd elegantly said.

Help me with the logic you are using WinstontheDog. You seem to think the following???

That people who know how granite was cut by ancient people makes them socialists?

I must award you with the Fractal Wrongness Award (2nd class) with fuzzy pink oak leaf of public silliness

For wrongness beyond the call of duty and comprehension of sane adults

Well done!

Y'know, I actually enjoy threads like this. Iw as aware of the bronze saw, the mallet, crack, and wedge method. I wasn''t aware of flint being used, though. I used to have a fairly large book on Egyptology that I passed to my youngest sister. I must have missed that chapter, unless it was a fairly recent bit, the books a fair bit dated.

If you can drill holes into the granite you can crack it using wood and water.

Makes holes in a line. Pound wooden dowels into the holes. Soak the wood in water. It will expand and crack the rock.

Heck dental floss and toothpaste will cut through steel bars:
www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/inmate-used-dental-floss-to-escape-cell-721919.html

www.cracked.com...


[edit on 8-7-2008 by Snap]

Clever those ancients. If they were in a hurry the old fire to heat the granite then splashing it with vinegar or water would crack the rock. However this reportedly could develop unwanted spalding.

You'd be surprised at how many techniques they had. When I was doing some fieldwork at a site here in Texas, I came across flint that was an odd reddish color. When I asked the head archaeologist about it, he explained that they fire-treated the local flint, heating it until it turned a reddish color and then flaking away the fire-treated parts.

It kept an edge better once it was fire treated.

(and we're talking about stone age Native Americans at a time when they only used atl-atls (and before the bow and arrow.))

even with fint,and such seems such a massive undertaking,and to complete it with slaves,Did the slaves come with this flint cutting tech,or where they taught?
i imagin flint has been around since man begain,What made the explotion of knowledge come about?
kinda funny the summarians had "bagdad batterys" for electroplating with lemon juice and such and the egyptions use flint tools .Eh need me a time machine to go back and observe them else its all speculation.

So then, copper bottom pots won't scratch your marble and granite countertops? good to know....

It is indeed amazing what our ancestors were capable of doing with stones. I live in a granite-rich corner of the world (it's not called Granite County for nothing!); I often find flint and obsidian tools as well as pieces of granite that appear to have been worked.

The people who lived here prior to the arrival of Europeans seem to have used the local flint for heavy-duty work, such as shaping grindstones, and preferred obsidian for hunting and skinning implements. This is how I recall the explanation given to me by archaeologists from a Native American college who come to my property each summer to poke around, anyway.

Obsidian is not native to here; not only would it have required an extensive trade network to bring it here, but also skilled craftsmen to understand which materials to use to shape the stuff into a tool durable enough to be useful. Just last week, I found a beautiful obsidian skinning utensil in a seasonal creek bed that was still razor sharp. I picked it up, thinking it was a piece of plastic, and sliced my finger on it. It can't have been manufactured more recently than about 200 years ago.

Sorry to veer slightly off-topic, but my point is that, while we may sometimes be surprised by the talents and knowledge of the ancients, we really ought not be. I find it condescending when people suggest that well-crafted ancient artifacts are cut-and-dried evidence of "advanced" technology or assistance from aliens. Perhaps they simply knew what they were doing.

edit/ typo

[edit on 7/8/08 by articulus]

Howdy devareous

kinda funny the summarians had "bagdad batterys" for electroplating with lemon juice and such and the egyptions use flint tools .Eh need me a time machine to go back and observe them else its all speculation.

A good thought but some of your time line is misplaced. The Sumer civilization had come and gone 2,000 years before the Sassanians appear to have developed the so called Baghdad battery.

Yes a nonevasive time machine would be G R E A T

"That people who know how granite was cut by ancient people makes them socialists?"

No my young impressionable little friend you have missed the point. I'll digress a little.

People who think they know about a particular subject then make, quite frankly, ridiculous statements, are at best misinformed or tend to be idiots, hence the socialist comment. If I have offended you or anyone else I apologies but being british I have had about enough of socialists and socialism that I can stand.

I have recently had the opportunity to use an industrial hacksaw type machine to cut some granite.

In four days of continous operation it couldn't cut a visable line in a piece of off cut kitchen unit "granite" sourced from a very upmarket supplier. This bit of kit had a tungstan carbide blade lubricated with industrial diamond "dust". It was putting around 4kn/mm 2 pressure at 30 cycles per minute but hardly scratched the "granite".

I'm revisiting Egypt in September on holiday but doubt if I'll get the time to get up to Cairo as there's a few places I haven't visited yet but I will be taking a small piece of flint to have the odd scrach here and there.

My Geotechnical collegues laughed when I asked if flint could dent/cut/mark granite.

Welcome back Winston

In four days of continous operation it couldn't cut a visable line in a piece of off cut kitchen unit "granite" sourced from a very upmarket supplier. This bit of kit had a tungstan carbide blade lubricated with industrial diamond "dust". It was putting around 4kn/mm 2 pressure at 30 cycles per minute but hardly scratched the "granite".

Ever hear of the mohr scale? So ya tellin' us diamond won't cut granite huh?

Kinda unbelievable that we in the modern world cannot cut granite - so how do we do it? I'm fthinking you to be either barmy, on a bender or just a troll.

reply to post by WinstontheDog


Why do you have"dust" and "granite" in quotes?
You'll find a lot of people replicate ancient tech to prove to people that it actually used to work that way. So, using flint and other materials has been proving through replication, not supposition.
Doesn't matter how many colleagues you have chuckling about it.

you know the funny thing about this thread - we are all debating irrelevance.

If you are going to claim that the pyramid builders didn't have advanced technology and then accordingly tow-the-line in regards to the official (and majorly flawed) story, then you also have to go along with the widely held (and official) belief that it was copper tools which were used to build the Giza pyramids.

We'll forget the fact that only a handful of copper tools have ever been discovered from the alleged period the pyramids were built in - not bad considering the thousands of slaves were reportedly all using them.

Let's also forget the hundreds of anomalies the pyramids (especially the Great Pyramid) have which the official story either cannot or answer or will claim it was 'grave robbers'.


But lets focus on one simple element of the cut granite - the granite coffer in the King's Chamber in the Great Pyramid.

Anyone who has inspected the inner corners of the granite coffer will be presented with something they cannot explain:

The inner corners are perfectly smooth, rounded and consistent.

I don't care what tool or mineral you claim was used to cut the granite, there is simply no way this could be achieved without the use of some kind of machining technology.


Annoyingly, I could not locate any picture of the coffer showing the corners, however there is one book which actually covered this topic and addressed it wonderfully.

"The Giza Power Plant" by Christopher Dunn.


There has been no better attempt at understanding HOW the Great pyramid was built and why.

Anyone reading or participating in this thread simply MUST read this book.

It gives a highly specific and detailed analysis of almost every anomaly within the Great Pyramid and answers much of the debate being had here.


Anyway, i just had to say something coz the arrogant displays going on here just aren't good and we need to get back to some solid debating of both sides of the story