Bill with billions in health plan cuts passes House

Personally, I'm not complaining about federal health aid. I understand why it's needed and I understand the rammifications of not having it. I do have major issues with the fact that those of us with insurance are the ones ultimately getting screwed. I think it's ridiculous for us to be paying for illegal aliens who the medical facillities are required by law to treat. I think it's equally ridiculous that our tax dollars pay for people who are not disabled to get health coverage and treatment. I am also 100% opposed to any universal or socialized health care... words like universal and socialized equal marginalized and mediocre.

For the record, I'm opposed to any and all foreign aid from our government, including disaster relief and food aid. If Americans wish to help support the world's needy, let them do it themselves through philanthropy. Don't use OUR money to bolster international relations or forced charity. In a sense that is a huge violation of our rights and harkens back to old England where the Chruch of England automatically took everyone's tithe via the King's taxation system.

Just a random, rambling thought!!!

I have always been against foreign aid of any kind other than through the unforced generosity of the people. Its one thing to be truely disabled and need aid. Its quite another to be able bodied and mentaly sound and expect aid without some form of sunset to end that aid. Seniors have payed they're bills to the society and deserve what they payed for all those years. That includes health care. Most of you know how badly you abuse your bodies and minds over 30+ years of labor. When age starts to break you down because of what you did to provide for your family and your government, there should be a time to relax and have your needs met with your penstion and medical benifits. However, should your pension be stolen because the standards set by financial institutions are inadequate, then it is up to the government, state or federal, to make you whole and not throw you to the street. You sacrificed your health to pay the governments requirements. We should not simply ignore the problem. Life is hard, but life ,liberty and pursuit of happiness is included in our every day lives.!
Zindo

Originally posted by bodrul

now if the Americans are so happy about paying for the armed forces of most countries why they f**** do you people get up in arms about helping your own people?

Because most Americans are spoon fed propaganda, and many preach out of ignorance.

MediCare is paid for by and large by the states. And here's something to think about:

if we were to eliminate health care insurance companies which are profit-seeking corporations (which is all of them) we could initiate a single payer health care program for everyone and it would cost ALOT less than health insurance. Not only do we pay high, over-inflated rates for health insurance, for those who can afford it, but we also pay exorbitant amounts for medical care, which often isn't covered by the insurance companies, who are very good at getting around claims and not paying claims to people who they should be. How many stories have you heard about someone who is insured, not being fully covered for their surgery or other necessary things? It happens all the time.
If we were to go to a single payer health care system, it would cost every American far less than health insurance. We don't need a middle man for health care. Also, often insurance companies will go for the cheapest way out and not pay claims they are supposed to. This means an overall lowering of standards in the health care industry. Most doctors hate health insurance because they need to hire at least 1 to 2 people just to do the paperwork. They also hate it because insurance companies are increasingly dictating to doctors how they should practice medicine, and they outright tell the doctor what is allowed and what isn't, according to what is cheapest for them. This, in turn, has created situations where people needlessly die. Do some research and you will find alot of horror stories out there.

reply to post by bodrul

Israel 2+ billion a year in Weapons Aid
Jordon+ couple million in weapons Aid
Pakistan+ couple million in weapons Aid
and other countries

Lol.. chump change compared to the bill for a NHS.

You're looking at... HUNDREDS of billions in funding..

And, just so you know, 42% of the Federal budget ALREADY funds Social Security and Medicare/medicaid. That does NOT include the billions spent by individual states.

Add the NHS and take another 30% of the total GDP to fund it? ..

In 2007 alone we paid 581 BILLION dollars to Social Security .. and the Boomers have not all begun to collect it yet!

I don't think you understand the financial situation of America.. we are not made of infinite money.. and if you think the world has problems, just wait until America comes home to stay, leaving the world at the mercy of the insane.

Here's another thought: poverty is generational. If you grow up the child of a poor person, likely you won't get the decent nutrition kids need in order for their brains to develop properly. This is all documented, BTW, I just don't have time to look it up. But it was very common among poor black children in the South when I taught school there in the mid-70's.

There are also many other health problems associated with poverty. For one thing, if a pregnant woman doesn't get good prenatal care, her chances for a healthy baby go way down. If you aren't able to function, how can you get a job that will support yourself? This leaves the poor in an even greater bind. The children are innocent, they've done nothing to deserve an unfair start in life. Let's at least give them health care, and that way so they can be healthy enough to work; we can then eventually end the cycle of poverty hopefully.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
OK you socialist nut cases.

We live in a Capitalist society....Now, let's take the SAME situation, and apply it to universal coverage.

Guy goes to hospital, but dies on the gerny because there where not enough doctors to see him right away. Family didn't have to pay a thing though .. well .. just an additional 20% of their income in taxes, which, if your a typical middle class American family with a combined income of 100k a year, an ADDITIONAL 20k in taxes to pay for universal health care

Sure glad I live in Canada, where we keep the politics of mean to a minimum and my out-of pocket expenses to be cured of cancer amounted to what I paid to park at the hospital.

In Canada we decided long ago that universal health care should be available to everyone. And by the way, we don't pay an extra 20% in income tax for it. My total tax is about that much and about 10% of tax money goes to fund public health care so about $2000 a year in my case. Looking at a U.S. health insurance web site, I'd have to pay $350 a month for my family and that is with a $5000 deductable! The private system seems to be very inefficient.

It's funny the arguments people make about having their tax dollars spent on someone else's health care. Whether you pay through taxes or through insurance, your money is going to treat everyone who needs care. And with universal care, everyone is more likely to contribute since it is coming out of their taxes.

Even with a decent insurance plan too in the U.S. it seems that it doesn't guarantee that you'll get all of the coverage you need, only what some insurance agent thinks you deserve in his quest to save money. I read of many cases where people's insurance rates go sky-high because of health problems making it unafordable or that you don't get surgery that would greatly improve your quality of life because it's not necessary. We have no problems like that.

Our doctors get paid very well too and our level of care and access to new medical procedures is excellent. Our system may not be perfect but I'd take it any day over what you have down there. Some of the health care systems in Europe like in England are even better than what we have.

Most Americans are in favour of free universal health care. I'm amazed not everyone is. I guess if you have a lot of money or are a Kennedy though, you can feel safe with your system.

[edit on 25-6-2008 by ghofer]

reply to post by ghofer


I mean no offense, but you really can't compare Canada and it's 33 million people with providing socialized health care to America's 300+ million. We do NOT have 10 times the number of people paying into the system compared to your country, but I guarantee we have far more than 10 times the number of social leeches. Also, (and I already know what door I'm opening by mentioning this, but it is still a basic fact) Canada's military expenditures are utterly dwarfed by America's.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


Canada has a population of 33 million people.

America has a population of 300 million people.

The cost of Canada's health care that you used: $160 BILLION.

Same cost for America: 1.6 TRILLION

Billary did say she could do it for 60 billion.

That's over $5,300 PER PERSON in additional taxes per year.

Which, of course, poor people won't have to pay because well .. why would you pay to take care of your self when you have the middle class to do it?

So you take the Middle Class, Upper Middle Class and Super rich and you get... 42% of the population that will pay the taxes to support a Canada style health care system!

126,000,000 will pay the tax? $12,700 in ADDITIONAL TAXES to the Middle Class.

Mmm thank you very much.

And, naturally, everything in America is used, abused and will need more maintenance then a normal society where their NHS systems are tiny in comparison to the US's needs .. I would not be surprised to see the price of a NHS reach well over 2 trillion dollars.

But as long is it saves you from cancer..

Originally posted by burdman30ott6
reply to post by ghofer

 

I mean no offense, but you really can't compare Canada and it's 33 million people with providing socialized health care to America's 300+ million. We do NOT have 10 times the number of people paying into the system compared to your country, but I guarantee we have far more than 10 times the number of social leeches. Also, (and I already know what door I'm opening by mentioning this, but it is still a basic fact) Canada's military expenditures are utterly dwarfed by America's.

I'm not sure I follow. You don't have 10 times as many people paying taxes? I know your unemployment rate is higher but 10 times the number of "social leeches"? To me it seems, if Canada, England and France can do universal health care cheaper per capita than a private system, then the U.S. should be able to figure out a way.

Yes we spend far less on defence, that's for sure. I'm always amazed when I travel to the U.S. how much the military presense is obvious with bases everywhere. In Canada we have maybe 10 air bases, most in pretty remote locations. I toured AMARC down in Tucson a couple of years ago and our whole air force could fit into a tiny corner of it. Anyway, that's way off topic.

[edit on 25-6-2008 by ghofer]

reply to post by Rockpuck


OH, yes we have infinite money, the Iraq war and the haliburtons in Iraq are getting all the funding they need.

Tell me how many cuts the Iraqi war budget has gotten!!!!!!!!!!!!

But is OK, we are nothing than numbers and expendable, so hurry up and pay those darn taxes that Haliburton needs its budget.

[edit on 25-6-2008 by marg6043]

reply to post by marg6043


OK Marge if you don't like the Iraq war imagine spending 3 times the annual budget of the ENTIRE WAR every year on health care, all because some people never got their priorities right and did not invest in health care.

I imagine Marge, being a responsible person, you have Health insurance? ..

NHS should be voluntary. Those who want to contribute and partake in free health care can foot the bill 100%.

Those who don't, we will continue with our health insurance.

You won't mind paying an extra 30k a year to keep the program viable right Marge? .. Just so Bobby Sue can get all 7 of her children treated for the mold growing in her trailer?

Originally posted by burdman30ott6
reply to post by ghofer

 

I mean no offense, but you really can't compare Canada and it's 33 million people with providing socialized health care to America's 300+ million...Also, (and I already know what door I'm opening by mentioning this, but it is still a basic fact) Canada's military expenditures are utterly dwarfed by America's.

The tax base remains proportional. It's still apples and apples. We just don't have the military out-lay because our priorities are different.

We're more comfortable healing our own than finding others to kill. That rather pointed remark is addressed to slackerwire, whose signature reads:"If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets" Says a lot...

At least I'm kidding with that nail/nose thing. Pretty much.

reply to post by Rockpuck


Well to tell you the true what my husband pays in taxes a year is enough to support a family of four as it stand.

Now, do I complain, yes when my daughter was in college I thought it was unfair but hey she is over and done with, we survived.

Now my 22 year old son can no longer be added to our insurance as he is not in college and is uninsured after all the taxes we pay, is that fair?

Then Billy, Maria and Shenika are going to keep having babies no matter what.

Those babies are going to need medical care no matter how much we debate here.

That is a fact of life.

So the burden is with the people, forced upon us by a government that has not clue how to care first for the nation but it has plenty to give away for corporate benefit.

There is a story out about a family having to cut it's budget to afford the higher gas prices. Part of the family budget cut was to get rid of cable TV. Not being able to watch Hannah Montana, the 2 young girls took to the streets to protest high gas prices. Ahhh how cute! Go read a book!

But let the government cut the budget, and the world is going to end, people are going to die. Since when is it OK for families to cut their budget, but it's not OK for government?

reply to post by RRconservative


What government needs to cut is its own spending not the programs that helps the citizens in this nation.

We got a trillion dollar war remember, and a government that has not trouble making itself bigger but it has the worst record when it comes to taking care of the nations domestic problems.

All this talk still of how much universal health care will cost. Per capita we in Canada spend in taxes about half of what someone in the U.S. would have to spend on insurance. If a family had to spend $12000 a year on taxes, I'd be against universal health care too but none of the countries who have it are spending that much. I'm sure a lot of the overhead of the private system would disappear just by getting rid of the big insurance companies alone.

And there seems to be a lot of hostility to the poorer people who have a hard time. With the U.S. economy tanking I feel sorry for these people not hostility. Doesn't it benefit the life of everyone in the country if it has decent social services? It means less poverty, less crime and a safer place for everyone. Maybe the crime rate in the U.S. wouldn't be 10 times higher than other western countries if they spent more effort helping their own people instead of blowing up people, and looking after their buddies in the defence industries, insurance companies, and drug industries. I'm sure a lot of the remaining opposition to universal health care comes from the propoganda from these industries and the politicians that they control. Otherwise, how come no politician besides Nader will even consider universal health care when that is what the majority of the people want?

reply to post by ghofer


Canadians pay, on average, 6% more per year in income taxes than Americans do. You pay about half as much out of pocket expense for health care. This is according to Nationmaster.com.

Another issue is the fact that aside from prescription drug purchasing and marijuana purchasing, Americans aren't going into Canada for health care purposes. The same cannot be said of the reverse, as many Canadians come down into the states to seek treatment, partly because of the wait times for diagnostic procedures in Canada and partly because of more physicians in the US.

People actually pay for medicare, it is not free, it cost well over a hundred dollars a month and medicare does not cover all of the bill often the person then has to pay a portion of the bill as well.

Plus if they want drug coverage they have a to pay a separate company for that or pay for meds out of pocket.

If you want to see where most of the tax money goes too, look up how much we are spending on the war and corporate welfare.