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Israel's Messianic Jews Under Attack

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posted on Jun, 22 2008 @ 06:21 PM
reply to post by orangetom1999

my wife and i are Messianic jews but we are not members of that particular group and have no contact with them but never the less we also follow the calendar teachings of the karaites.
we are "caught between" a Rock and a hard place trying to stay out of trouble from everyone.
the main difference between karaite and rabbinic judaism is over the lunar calendar that is used to delineate the holy days found in leviticus 23.

the calendar used to be looked after by the aaronic/levitical priesthood. the romans destroyed the temple in 70ce. and then drove out the jews in 135ce.
during those dates and up to 200ce the holyday calendar was followed by observation of the first visible crescent new moon of the first and seventh months.
at some point around 200ce the rabbi's had enough control to change the calendar from 1 of observation to calculation---but their calculation threw in some twists to follow their own rules of trying to prevent 2 sabbath days from happening in a row--a 7th day sabbath and 1 of the annual 7 holyday sabbaths during each year---either on a sunday or a friday.
why does this matter?well the reason it matters is that it is possible to exactly calculate when the day of atonement falls but the rabbinic rules don't allow for this------and that day to G-D is the holiest 1 day in the entire year and He says that His people if they don't keep it but work on that day instead He will destroy them.leviticus 23:27-30
in my opinion much of the grief my fellow jews have had to endure from others including the inquisitions and holocaust can be partially blamed on this calendar change.
obviously our ancestors were doing more things wrong than this to end up with the romans being allowed to remove us from israel in the first place.

posted on Jun, 23 2008 @ 01:23 AM
reply to post by yahn goodey

Wow!!! Thanks Yahn Goodey for that historical explaination. I had not before your post heard that version of history.

I remember the first time I saw a Hebrew grave to where I realized what it was I was observing. It had a date on it of some 4000 plus years..or so I thought at the time. It was some time later when I realized it was based on a moon calendar.

Here ..I am going to let you in on a little secret...even many of my Chistiian Bretheren dont even know...or they have not been faithfully taught by their preachers. This here...from your post.

obviously our ancestors were doing more things wrong than this to end up with the romans being allowed to remove us from israel in the first place.

From the Olde Testament...and even into the New...the Christians are following the same pattern of disobedience. So when Solomon stated there was nothing new under the sun ...he was not kidding. You see....Yahn....Christians have their Talmuds too..also thier own Pharisees.
Christian Talmuds are under the headings of tell you what the Word says. You know..Pharisees like Ironsides, Clarence Larkin, Matthew Henry etc etc. THese are Chrisitan rules for breaking the rules. It took me along time to figure this out. Alot of Christian Pharisees on television too.

However..history is a very intresting topic to me. Any kind of history...and I thank you for filling me in on that aspect..concerning the Karaites and Rabbinical Judaism.

I should also tell you that by careful reading from the Olde Testament and even into the New Testament..I realized that there is no instruction for a Hebrew to celebrate a birthday, nor a Christian Believer. This never changed..from Olde to New Testament.
So......from where did this man made tradition originate?? Once I gathered sufficiently from this tack...and thinking...about birthdays...I gave up christmas..and birthdays..both. I realized that they were counterfits to the Word. Man made traditions passing for holy when they were not. All Glory and Holiness is to Him not to us as humans. We are not to glorify ourselves or our traditions.
Lots of examples like this from both OLde and New Testaments. It is quite a wake up call when ones soul is educated.

Again ..thanks for that view of history...the Karaites and Rabbinical history. That is a tight spot you are in between teachings and various groups. Yes..I can see that.
In like manner I have received flack from many of my Christian Bretheren and even preachers when they realize that I do not celebrate birthdays or christmas. When I do not observe the traditions of men.

THank you for your post,

[edit on 23-6-2008 by orangetom1999]

posted on Jun, 23 2008 @ 01:28 AM
reply to post by manson_322

Well by God, if Jimmy Carter admits it, it must be true!

You might want to try and find a figure just a little bit less, oh... I don't know... spineless and appeasing than former president Carter for your future arguments. After all, as much as Bush's wars have cost this country in money and international respect, Carter's 4 years cost us in testicles and international pride.

posted on Jun, 23 2008 @ 01:36 AM
reply to post by ZeroKnowledge

I do not agree that it is apartheid

but the former US president and former israeli education minister disagree
with you ....

The following is a statement from South Africa, supported by a wide range of voices and institutions, condemning the celebration of Occupation apartheid:

We fought apartheid; we see no reason to celebrate it in Israel now!

We, South Africans who faced the might of unjust and brutal apartheid machinery in South Africa and fought against it with all our strength, with the objective to live in a just, democratic society, refuse today to celebrate the existence of an Apartheid state in the Middle East. While Israel and its apologists around the world will, with pomp and ceremony, loudly proclaim the 60th anniversary of the establishment of the state of Israel this month, we who have lived with and struggled against oppression and colonialism will, instead, remember 6 decades of catastrophe for the Palestinian people. 60 years ago, 750,000 Palestinians were brutally expelled from their homeland, suffering persecution, massacres, and torture. They and their descendants remain refugees. This is no reason to celebrate.

When we think of the Sharpeville massacre of 1960, we also remember the Deir Yassin massacre of 1948.

When we think of South Africa's Bantustan policy, we remember the bantustanisation of Palestine by the Israelis.

When we think of our heroes who languished on Robben Island and elsewhere, we remember the 11,000 Palestinian political prisoners in Israeli jails.

When we think of the massive land theft perpetrated against the people of South Africa, we remember that the theft of Palestinian land continues with the building of illegal Israeli settlements and the Apartheid Wall.

When we think of the Group Areas Act and other such apartheid legislation, we remember that 93% of the land in Israel is reserved for Jewish use only.

When we think of Black people being systematically dispossessed in South Africa, we remember that Israel uses ethnic and racial dispossession to strike at the heart of Palestinian life.

When we think of how the SADF troops persecuted our people in the townships, we remember that attacks from tanks, fighter jets and helicopter gunships are the daily experience of Palestinians in the Occupied Territory.

When we think of the SADF attacks against our neighbouring states, we remember that Israel deliberately destabilises the Middle East region and threatens international peace and security, including with its 100s of nuclear warheads.

We who have fought against Apartheid and vowed not to allow it to happen again can not allow Israel to continue perpetrating apartheid, colonialism and occupation against the indigenous people of Palestine.

We dare not allow Israel to continue violating international law with impunity.

We will not stand by while Israel continues to starve and bomb the people of Gaza.

We who fought all our lives for South Africa to be a state for all its people demand that millions of Palestinian refugees must be accorded the right to return to the homes from where they were expelled.

Apartheid was a gross violation of human rights. It was so in South Africa and it is so with regard to Israel's persecution of the Palestinians!

I can't see Iraq under Hussein as being better than Israel in terms of tolerance and freedom. '

I understand the UAE is a peaceful nation, but its also a Feudal State. It could also be considered an Apartheid state, as 85% of its population is non Arab and non Persian. Meaning a small minority rules over the majority, a small minority that is feudal.

and i can't understand how israel was better , as Israel practices apartheid

[edit on 23-6-2008 by manson_322]

[edit on 23-6-2008 by manson_322]

posted on Jun, 23 2008 @ 12:52 PM
reply to post by orangetom1999

glad i could help you out with your search for truth.
i was born of 2 secular jews in england 1947.religion or G-D was a subject that was not a part of their lives.
when i was 20 i started searching for G-D because i could see no point in living just to stuff food in my face to keep on living---for what reason?
someone gave me a bible and i started reading-------approximately 1986/87 i heard a guy on shortwave radio talking about the karaites not following the same calendar as the rabbis.
i had been trying to keep the holydays by the rabbinic calendar since 1969 and then this comes up.
off to the libraries i go trying to find out what was going on.
the basics of the calendar changes can be found in the 1942 universal jewish encyclopedia and the 1987 encyclopedia judaica and the encyclopaedia britannica.
once i was sure that the karaites were correct i stopped following the rabbinic ideas.

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