It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Israel's Messianic Jews Under Attack

page: 1
4
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 07:02 AM
link   

Israel's Messianic Jews Under Attack


www.time.com

The flyers appeared everywhere inside the Jewish settlement of Ariel, on car windshields and telephone poles, and in bus shelters. "Beware," it read, "these are the members of the Jewish Missionary Cult. They are baptizing Jews into Christianity." Included was a photo of Pastor David Ortiz and his address.

...March 20th when an unknown person dropped off a bomb disguised as a holiday gift package loaded with candy and chocolates.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 07:02 AM
link   
This is how Messianic Jews are treated by ultra-orthodox Jews in Israel. It's amazing that this offshoot of Judaism that still adhere to certain aspects of the Talmud and are also Zionists are viewed as traitors by many Jews in Israel.


Last month, when the deputy mayor of Or Yehuda, a town near Tel Aviv, found out that Messianic Jews had been passing out copies of the New Testament to a community of poor Ethiopian Jews, he ordered the books to be collected and they were set alight in a bonfire. He later apologized and said the Bibles had been burned accidentally. "If somebody had done that in Europe to Jewish Torahs, you can image what sort of a reaction that would provoke here," says Ortiz.


Ah.. I love the smell of burning bibles in the morning. Smells like... Fascism.


Messianic Jews living in the Negev Desert also say they are routinely harassed and attacked by yeshiva students, some inspired by Yad L'achem, a religious organization dedicated to stamping out Christian missionary activities in Israel. Random acts of anti-Christian violence have also occurred: last October in Jerusalem, a church was fire-bombed, and several days after Christmas, a German pilgrim who was returning from Bethlehem carrying a large wooden cross was attacked by a gang of ultra-orthodox youths who smashed the cross into splinters. These are isolated attacks, and Christians living in Israel say that as long as they refrain from missionary work — prohibited by the Israeli government — they are left free to worship.


One has to wonder if the public condemnation of these acts by the government and Rabbinic scholars is done purely as a public relations effort. Because this kind of hatred finds its roots in the Rabbinic texts that have remained steadfast with no attempt made to amend them.

This story recalls the plight of the Karaites and their refusal to accept Talmudic dogma.

God help the Muslims if this is how those who deviate from Talmudic scripture are treated.



www.time.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 07:24 AM
link   
Since you stated for yourself that this is a reaction by ultra-religious circles to missionary activity - i do not understand what Muslims or Talmud got to do with it.
Extremist activity of certain Jewish groups toward missionaries is not accepted by a lot of people ,including some ultra-orthodox leaders but it does not mean that they agree to missionary activity of Christian groups. It has nothing to do with Talmud,Torah or other books. Imagine how religious leaders in predominantly Christian area in ,say, US will feel if on every door there will hang a bunch of Judaism-originated books with converting texts. It will also be not accepted with good spirit and i suspect certain acts by individuals could also be expected.
For your information - messianic activity of any kind is against the law in Israel.
Me personally - i condemn extremist activities like book-burning, physical and verbal violence and have no interest to persecute missionaries in the court.
I just want mutual respect for all involved. And i do not see going to poor Jewish neighborhood with religious literature intended to convert people as a sign of mutual respect too.
If person wants to be Christian/Muslim/whatever - there are churches and mosques where he can get help with that and i will do my best to allow him freedom of worship.



posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 07:40 AM
link   
and yet we have members , who talk about Israel is democratic blah blah blah



posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 07:53 AM
link   
reply to post by manson_322
 


Yup. There are members who say only



blah blah blah

Luckily there are other members who usually contribute much more then one- liners which are often only intended to stir an empty argument.
Is sun shining?
Is wind blowing?
Is Israel democracy?
Anything to contribute on-topic?
I heard that in democratic Saudi Arabia missionaries are treated much better.



posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 09:02 AM
link   
why are messianic jews illegal? a section of society being repressed for there beliefs - we have walked this road allready in the last 100 years



posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 10:37 AM
link   
reply to post by Harlequin
 


No!! I probably poorely explained the situation. Missionary activity of any kind by any religious group is against the law,even by Judaism groups. Naturally it is very rarely applied (i never heard about its use at least), and personally i would like to see how it is applied against Judaism group in the current political coalition. Also what is forbidden is a material stuff. Person can talk as much as he wants and preach whatever he wants in public or in private. If someone stops me in the street and talks to me - it is legal (but annoying
) - if he is Christian or Habadnik or Messianic Jew.
Messianic Jews are just another religious group that is totally legal ,but what i meant is if they do missionary stuff against the law - then the person doing it could be persecuted.
As for incident with Bible books and violence - it is usually done by private organizations and "volunteers" from ultra-religious circles. The fact that high-ranked official from Mayor office is involved in Bible case is a new development.
If freedom of religious practices is going to be forbidden here - then it will become a total medieval dark place.
Edit - spelling.

[edit on 21-6-2008 by ZeroKnowledge]



posted on Jun, 21 2008 @ 05:01 PM
link   
reply to post by Beelzebubba
 


I find it very intresting that you know of this about the Karaites


This story recalls the plight of the Karaites and their refusal to accept Talmudic dogma.


Not many people know that the Karaites do not use the Talmud and did not suffer the persecution levels in WW2 Europe as did other Jews.
The impression is that this persecution happened to all Jews.

This knowlege of the Karaites has caused me to rethink alot of history for which I had previously taken for granted.

Good to see that someone else out here knows.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Jun, 22 2008 @ 02:28 PM
link   
reply to post by ZeroKnowledge
 


then should i debate Israeli Apartheid , Mr.'know -it-all' ignorant

fact is fact Israel is a racist apartheid . Even US president Jimmy Carter admits it

reply to post by Beelzebubba
 





God help the Muslims if this is how those who deviate from Talmudic scripture are treated.


and its no surprise , as to why the muslim world hates Israel

[edit on 22-6-2008 by manson_322]



posted on Jun, 22 2008 @ 02:32 PM
link   
reply to post by manson_322
 


you do know your going to get gunned down (phrase gun downed means, harsh replies) by the ATS eliete
on the fact that you brought in carter


its no supprise that israel is a aparthied state
it treats none jews like dirt and its not like anyone will or can do anything



posted on Jun, 22 2008 @ 02:38 PM
link   

Originally posted by bodrul
reply to post by manson_322
 


you do know your going to get gunned down (phrase gun downed means, harsh replies) by the ATS eliete
on the fact that you brought in carter


its no supprise that israel is a aparthied state
it treats none jews like dirt and its not like anyone will or can do anything


and i personally don't care about the what those zionazis say , these zionists have some real crappy arguement , to support israeli apartheid , which have been ripped to shreds by human rights organziations like Amnesty,UNHRC etc

but sadly such reports does not come to light in the global mass media,except pro-israeli BS

[edit on 22-6-2008 by manson_322]



posted on Jun, 22 2008 @ 02:48 PM
link   
Since people are attacking Israel as being intolerant and totalitarian,

Can someone name some nation in the Middle East, North Africa or Near East that is more tolerant or free than Israel?

I am having a hard time coming up with one,

Saudi Arabia
Iran
Iraq

are some of the most intolerant places on earth.

Heck even in so called Free Afghanistan, Muslims who convert to anything can be given the death penalty. This law is almost universal from North Africa to the Near East, either in official or unofficial capacity.

I shouldn't even need to bring up blood feuds and honor killings.



posted on Jun, 22 2008 @ 03:03 PM
link   

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
Can someone name some nation in the Middle East, North Africa or Near East that is more tolerant or free than Israel?


The country you are searching for was called Lebanon - until the Israelis bombed their tolerance and freedom.

Jon



posted on Jun, 22 2008 @ 03:19 PM
link   
reply to post by manson_322
 


Of course you can call anyone you want anything, as long as you want and of course,need.
The simple fact is that Israel is not an apartheid state. Third of my course in university were Arabs, majority of them lived in the same city that i live in so use of apartheid is just another dirt that is thrown by interested or simply misinformed individuals. I worked in the same place and held the same job with person of different ethnic group which is nothing extraordinary. To better understand the concept of what apartheid is you should look up what apartheid system says. Then you can compare. That is if you really want to know the issue,and not if you brought the thing just for :


blah blah blah

,as someone said.


There are a lot of cases of discrimination which is of course a bad thing as it is. But Israel is only 60 years old, it was and is fighting for its life and some issues are not as i would like it to be mainly because priorities do not allow to concentrate efforts on all problems, however when it will (and it will
) reach the same age as US i am sure that these problems will also be solved.
There are countries the same age as Israel - like Pakistan
- that also has discrimination issues unsolved (yet) and they had fewer wars. I will give them time.
I heard that there are problems with missionaries too.



posted on Jun, 22 2008 @ 03:23 PM
link   
reply to post by Voxel
 


From my understanding Lebanon didn't collapse due to the Israelis but to internal pressures and those finally exploded in 1975.

The Israelis really didnt get involved until Three years later in 1978.

It was not until 1981 that Israel bombed Beirut, by that time most of Lebanon was already in ruins due to fighting from Christians militias, Muslim militias, the PLO, and Syrian troops.






[edit on 22/6/08 by MikeboydUS]



posted on Jun, 22 2008 @ 03:23 PM
link   
reply to post by Voxel
 


I agree that Lebanon was the only descent peacefull country - but just for your information, when Israel intervened and invaded there was a bloody civilian war going on. It kind of blows the tolerance thing before bombs.



posted on Jun, 22 2008 @ 03:44 PM
link   
reply to post by ZeroKnowledge
 





The simple fact is that Israel is not an apartheid state.


more BS ...

this article is from Shulamit Aloni,former Education Minister of Israel.

Shulamit Aloni is the former Education Minister of Israel. She has been awarded both the Israel Prize and the Emil Grunzweig Human Rights Award by the Association for Civil Rights in Israel.



This Road is for Jews Only
Yes, There is Apartheid in Israel
By SHULAMIT ALONI

Jewish self-righteousness is taken for granted among ourselves to such an extent that we fail to see what's right in front of our eyes. It's simply inconceivable that the ultimate victims, the Jews, can carry out evil deeds. Nevertheless, the state of Israel practises its own, quite violent, form of Apartheid with the native Palestinian population.

The US Jewish Establishment's onslaught on former President Jimmy Carter is based on him daring to tell the truth which is known to all: through its army, the government of Israel practises a brutal form of Apartheid in the territory it occupies. Its army has turned every Palestinian village and town into a fenced-in, or blocked-in, detention camp. All this is done in order to keep an eye on the population's movements and to make its life difficult. Israel even imposes a total curfew whenever the settlers, who have illegally usurped the Palestinians' land, celebrate their holidays or conduct their parades.

If that were not enough, the generals commanding the region frequently issue further orders, regulations, instructions and rules (let us not forget: they are the lords of the land). By now they have requisitioned further lands for the purpose of constructing "Jewish only" roads. Wonderful roads, wide roads, well-paved roads, brightly lit at night--all that on stolen land. When a Palestinian drives on such a road, his vehicle is confiscated and he is sent on his way.

On one occasion I witnessed such an encounter between a driver and a soldier who was taking down the details before confiscating the vehicle and sending its owner away. "Why?" I asked the soldier. "It's an order--this is a Jews-only road", he replied. I inquired as to where was the sign indicating this fact and instructing [other] drivers not to use it. His answer was nothing short of amazing. "It is his responsibility to know it, and besides, what do you want us to do, put up a sign here and let some antisemitic reporter or journalist take a photo so he that can show the world that Apartheid exists here?"

Indeed Apartheid does exist here.
www.counterpunch.org...


and this is from a South African himself ,


BISHOP DESMOND TUTU, the South African Nobel Prize winner, described how he saw on his visit to Israel "much like what happened to us black people in South Africa. I have seen the humiliation of the Palestinians at checkpoints and roadblocks, suffering like us when young white police officers prevented us from moving about" (1). Comparisons between apartheid South Africa and Israel/Palestine have often been made, but not always clearly explained. Many factors have made the comparison attractive.




Israelis have always been horrified at the idea of parallels between their country, a democracy risen from the ashes of genocide, and the racist system that ruled the old South Africa. Yet even within Israel itself, accusations persist that the web of controls affecting every aspect of Palestinian life bears a disturbing resemblance to apartheid. After four years reporting from Jerusalem and more than a decade from Johannesburg before that, the Guardian's award-winning Middle East correspondent Chris McGreal is exceptionally well placed to assess this explosive comparison. Here we publish the first part of his two-day special report
www.guardian.co.uk...


more sources on israeli aparthied:
www.apartheidweek.org...
students confronting israeli apartheid :
www.stanford.edu...


reply to post by MikeboydUS
 

UAE is really a peaceful place in the middle east

Saudi Arabia is supported heavily by US govt , Iraq was a secular state under Hussein till USA bombed the nation to oblivion,and USA overthrow the democractic govt in 1953 , the result of which ultimately the Iranian revolution happened




There are countries the same age as Israel - like Pakistan - that also has discrimination issues unsolved (yet) and they had fewer wars. I will give them time.


secondly , I am not a Pakistani okay .....

[edit on 22-6-2008 by manson_322]

[edit on 22-6-2008 by manson_322]



posted on Jun, 22 2008 @ 04:21 PM
link   
reply to post by manson_322
 


Well, i liked the term - "roads for Jews". I can second that vehicles of Palestinians in west bank (also was in Gaza) are not allowed on certain roads ,witnessed it myself. But i can also witness that Israeli Arabs, Bedouins and every Israeli citizen could (and was) use them. You know why?
Because there was no chance that those guys will shoot anybody from their car, not the case with Palestinian population. Hundreds of people were killed from road ambushes (not virtual - like the one you prepared for me) ,more wounded. And thus the concept of no entry to Palestinian cars was born. I do not agree that it is apartheid - people of all races can use them! As long as there is no chance of shootings!
The situation is not normal, so is the "solution".
And there are roads closed for Israeli citizens (yes,including Jews, Arabs and other ethnic groups) but open for Palestinians - for the same reason - prevent bloodshed.
www.ynetnews.com...
Since there is a peace process between Israel and Palestinians, i think that it is there to end existing conflict between two, don't you agree?



posted on Jun, 22 2008 @ 05:25 PM
link   
reply to post by manson_322
 


I can't see Iraq under Hussein as being better than Israel in terms of tolerance and freedom.

I understand the UAE is a peaceful nation, but its also a Feudal State. It could also be considered an Apartheid state, as 85% of its population is non Arab and non Persian. Meaning a small minority rules over the majority, a small minority that is feudal.

. Sexual and religious discrimination is commonplace in employement. Islam is the official religion of the country. It has very comparable laws to Israel in regards to missionaries. Which are forbidden to proseltyze. Sharia law is in effect, even for Non Muslims. Segregation has been reported and gay rights is non existant

It has been reported that prisoners who convert to Islam get reduced sentences and those converts who can memorize the Quaran can actually get pardons.

The nation's ISP has blocked various religious websites. Muslim women cannot marry non Muslims. Anti Semitic material has appeared in media.
Freedom of speech and press are restricted.

In a number of ways Israel has more liberal reforms than the UAE. The most important being that Israel is a democratic state. Freedom of speech, press, and religion are less restricted. Censorship and sexual discrimination are not as prominent.




[edit on 22/6/08 by MikeboydUS]



posted on Jun, 22 2008 @ 05:55 PM
link   



new topics

top topics



 
4
<<   2 >>

log in

join