Nursing Standards RAPIDLY declining in hospitals

Todays so called nurses in the NHS are rubbish.They simply don't care about their patients.

This is why mrsa is rampant through all the hospitals.This dereliction of duty has been promoted by text and mobile phones and fostered a culture of "I could not care less attitude".

They seem very busy gossiping about "last night' meaning who shagged and how much binge drinking they did and who they vomited over.

They sit in their cubicles reading magazines and papers and manicuring their nails whinging about their latest moronic boyfriend who beats them up after coming home from the pub.

These nurses are paid 33000/$70000 pounds annually for doing very little work.They are always whining about their 'low pay'.

They should be charged with murder or at the very least manslaughter every time a patient dies in their "care".

That should help them focus their minds on the job instead of their sordid sexploits.

Its possible some mrsa may be caused by their promiscous behaviour spreading it in the hospital also.

Its time you people took these 'nurses' to task for not caring for their patients.

You should shout at them and demand that they do their job for which they are paid a king's ransom.

They don't even wash their hands.

[edit on 17-6-2008 by esecallum]

what is this? American anti NHS propaganda?

The reason for the spread of mrsa is because of the privatisation of the cleaning of hospitals. With privatisation comes monopoly and a lack of caring about standards since there is no competition.

Originally posted by esecallum
Todays so called nurses in the NHS are rubbish.They simply don't care about their patients.

This is why mrsa is rampant through all the hospitals.This dereliction of duty has been promoted by text and mobile phones and fostered a culture of "I could not care less attitude".

They seem very busy gossiping about "last night' meaning who shagged and how much binge drinking they did and who they vomited over.

They sit in their cubicles reading magazines and papers and manicuring their nails whinging about their latest moronic boyfriend who beats them up after coming home from the pub.

These nurses are paid 33000/$70000 pounds annually for doing very little work.They are always whining about their 'low pay'.

They should be charged with murder or at the very least manslaughter every time a patient dies in their "care".

That should help them focus their minds on the job instead of their sordid sexploits.

Its possible some mrsa may be caused by their promiscous behaviour spreading it in the hospital also.

Its time you people took these 'nurses' to task for not caring for their patients.

You should shout at them and demand that they do their job for which they are paid a king's ransom.

They don't even wash their hands.

[edit on 17-6-2008 by esecallum]

Well, all i can say is ... that you have no idea. I suspect this is a bait thread, but i will rise to the challenge.

Paid a King's ransom eh! I wish. Try £19,000 pa for a start off.

MRSA actually started in the US as did VRSA. MRSA is NOT a sexually transmitted disease. In fact 33% of MRSA is community borne - which means patients bring MRSA into hospitals. I suggest you read the Department of Health (DoH) website for more information.

I dont know what hospital you ever went into (probably none if the truth is told) but what you are saying is utter B***#.

reply to post by esecallum


Hmmmm, its an interesting rant but at best its ill informed to say the least.

Here in the US, Nurses have to deal with an increasing and onerous record keeping standard (For a 1 hour transport I spend 2 hours charting), increased acuity, increased stress even on the "easy" units. And for what?

Ungreatfull patients and families that will sue at the drop of a hat?
The ability to work Christmas (and every major holiday) every other year?
The ability to work every other weekend for the rest of your career
The ability to work off shifts which decreases your lifespan

If the nurses in the UK are making 33000-70000 pounds a year than if anything they are grossly underpaid and should be demanding an increase at the very least.

But heck go ahead and cut thier salaries, that way more and more nurses will come over here and solve our shortage.

It seems to me that the US Nurses are in the same boat as UK ones as far as work committment V paperwork is concerned. The US and the UK and I believe a lot of the other Euro Countries are desperately short of Nurses.

In the UK we dont have the 3 tier system of Nurse rankings like in the US - you have Nurse Assistant, LPN and RN I believe. We in the UK have Health Care Assistant (HCA) and RN. Though now we are starting to see a middle rank of Associate Practitioner (AP).

The only nurses that I know that are on £33,000+ are what we call 'Nurse Specialists and Nurse Consultants'. The basic rank and file qualified Nurses start at £19,000 for a newly qualified nurse. There are basically 3 bands of qualified Nurses, from Staff Nurse (5), Senior Staff Nurse (5 or 6), Sister (7). Even some Ward Sisters are lucky to earn £30,000 a year. HCA's are band 2 or 3 and start at £10,000 rising to approximately £15,500.

How do I know this?
I am a Nurse and so is my Wife and so is my Sister.
Plus I am also a Representative for the Royal College of Nursing (RCN).

reply to post by Wotan



Go Wotan, Go wotan, Go Wotan !


As I and my wife are from two families of nurses I read this, re-read it, and laughed my balls off.

What an insane rant... and i am glad good folks came in and added some sense here.

FredT, salutes to you for dealing with the kiddies... hats off to you.

To all nurses world wide, salutes to you all.

Originally posted by Wotan
The only nurses that I know that are on £33,000+ are what we call 'Nurse Specialists and Nurse Consultants'. The basic rank and file qualified Nurses start at £19,000 for a newly qualified nurse. There are basically 3 bands of qualified Nurses, from Staff Nurse (5), Senior Staff Nurse (5 or 6), Sister (7). Even some Ward Sisters are lucky to earn £30,000 a year. HCA's are band 2 or 3 and start at £10,000 rising to approximately £15,500.

WOW In the SF Bay Area we have one of the highest wage structures in the USA. Our New grads start at about $40 an hour and tops of scale is close to 70 base. Off shifts get 10-18% more as does being in charge (7.5%) and weekends 5%. A new grad working nights gets about $100000 a year US. Most are in the 120-140000 range. Advance nurses called Nurse Practicioners here make less as they are salaried at most places and can often work more than 40 a week without the overtime we get if that occures. If you are curious our union can be found here

CRONA

How do I know this?
I am a Nurse and so is my Wife and so is my Sister.
Plus I am also a Representative for the Royal College of Nursing (RCN).

My wife and I are nurses. I work as a Pediatric Critical Care Transport Specialist and my wife works in the NICU stepdown unit

reply to post by Dan Tanna


Thanks Dan It can be a challanging job at times but the rewards are oh so great

reply to post by esecallum


Wow thats a very angry post!
You seem pretty bitter, did something bad happen to you in hospital? I'm sorry if it did.

I cant speak for american care but in the uk our hospitals are also at crisis point. For every positive story there are 10 horror stories of neglect and uncleanliness.
In my experience the majority of nurses and doctors do their best but but are totally overworked and under resourced. The NHS was a great idea but it wasn't meant to include the huge increase in population and immigration. Its stretched to breaking point and unfortunately its the most vulnerable that suffer.

Thankyou Dan Tanna and FredT.

I cannot stand to see ''Nurse bashing'' from ignorant people who have no bloody idea what it is like to work in Healthcare, especially in a strained service like the NHS.

If anyone is to blame for poor service in the NHS, it is the Government. They keep moving the bloody goal posts and are only concerned with targets. They do not care about patients at all as long as their figures and tables look good. You would not believe the stupid bureaucracy and excessive paperwork we have to put up with.

Thanks FredT for the headsup on your salaries in the US. Thats about 3x more than we get in the UK. Now where is my Green Card? First though I would have to take the NCLEX before thinking about the US.

And FredT, i remember you telling me that in a pm about you and the wife being nurses. As for Dan Tanna, I already know you

I just told the wife about the salaries....


Any need for a bachelors degree of science (Adult nursing) with honours (dissertation of 10,000 words) and Post graduate Intensive care course Nurse ?

If so..... (ill get her through NCLEX as she is a bright cookie)...

Originally posted by Dan Tanna
I just told the wife about the salaries....


Any need for a bachelors degree of science (Adult nursing) with honours (dissertation of 10,000 words) and Post graduate Intensive care course Nurse ?

If so..... (ill get her through NCLEX as she is a bright cookie)...

Get yourself a ''Nursing Standard'' magazine from WH Smith. In the back section are adverts from companies who will pay for you to do your NCLEX conversion and even find you a job once you are re-qualified.

reply to post by esecallum


Hey I really take offence to this thread, my mam is an intensive care nurse and I can tell you she cares a GREAT DEAL about her patients.

How many times have you seen your mam come home from a 12 hour night shift and start crying because her patient has died??

How many times have you seen your mam come home from work with black eyes and bruises because some poor excuse of a human has hit her because she cant fight back and they were "angry"?

After the stories I've heard about patients being violent and abusive, I honestlty wouldnt blame nurses if they couldnt be bothered to treat some people properly but thats me, I wouldnt last 1 day as a nurse.

As for the MRSA BS the nurses are not to blame, go to your hospital and ask how many cleaners there were in wards 10-15 years ago, then ask how many there are now, the NHS bigwigs decided to sack most of the hospital cleaners to save money and now there spread to thin to clean everything properly, tell relatives who go into hospital to clean there hands (majority who go in dont) and tel the doctors to do the same (again the majority dont).

Your post is ill informed, I'd advise you to sort your facts out before starting a nurse bashing thread.

Please don't shoot the messenger.

I was merely reporting my observations from a real hospital staffed by real nurses and reporting their behaviour.

I never said every nurse was like that.

All I am saying is that an increasing proportion of nurses are regarding looking after patients as a secondary chore and their primary motivation is to have a good time and gossip about their personal lives at the expense of patient care.

I always see them huddled around the nurses station talking endless bs about who is going out with whom.

You may have heard in the news nurses who have been arrested and sentenced after it was found and that they had injected lethal doses of
various drugs to kill trouble some patients so that they could be rid of them.

This included both elderly patients and children who were injected with lethal doses of insulin,etc.

The figures I quoted are the correct figures for nurse salaries as verified by others above and I after seeing what they actually do in hospital, to me it seems they are actually overpaid and at the minimum do not deserve any more money as their is a finite budget and ever increasing demands for more money means fewer nurses.

I mean you can either have 100000 nurses at £33000 or 33000 nurses at £100000.

Patient care would be served more by having a 100000 nurses rather then by fewer overpaid nurses who will then tend to think the work is beneath them and that they should sitting in some office.

A overpaid nurse is not going to be able to do the work of more nurses or be in 2 different place at the same time no matter how you twist it.




[edit on 19-6-2008 by esecallum]

For a start, the salary figures you have quoted are wrong.

I wish i was one of YOUR nurses that was paid £33,000 per year.

2007 Rate. (The 2008 Rate has yet to be ratified by the Nursing Unions and it is a two year deal, meaning spread over two years).

Band 5 - £19,454 to £25,175 (Staff Nurses)
Band 6 - £23,230 to £31,469 (Senior Staff Nurses)
Band 7 - £28,036 to £36,962 (Ward Sisters/Ward Managers)

Band 5 Staff Nurses make up the bulk of the rank and file of nurses in the UK.

As for 'rogue' nurses, there has also been 'rogue' doctors as well. That has happend on few occasions and not just in the UK. It is not a reflection of nursing care. You cant tar all nurses the same because of a few bad apples.

So from your statement, you would rather see 100,000 underpaid nurses? Well, you already do and that is FACT! Why do you think so many UK nurses are leaving the service? Why do you think we have a Nurse shortage? I personaly know of Nurses that have left Nursing to stack shelves in Tescos because they would then be paid more and have far less stress.

Do you think it is fair for a Staff Nurse to be the only qualified member of staff to look after 28 patients on an acute ward? Well, that happens all too frequently.

As a profession, Nursing is probably one of the most underpaid professions in the UK. We study for 3 or 4 years for a Diploma and/or a Degree on a £6,000 bursary, with most students racking up a student debt. Do a job comparison to say a teacher, policeman, fireman etc and then see their salaries in comparison.

Look to the UK news of yesterday. Is it fair that an Oil Tanker DRIVER receives a 14% pay rise to make it up to a basic salary of £36,000 per year? The jobs of Nurse and Driver do not come anywhere near comparison.

No-one goes into Nursing to make money, FACT.

I suggest you stop watching TV programs like Casualty and Holby City, they are not even remotely close when it comes to reality nursing.

PS: I actually came into Nursing from a £30,000 a year job of 20+ years as a Graphic Artist. I took a 2/3's pay cut to become a Nurse and I will probably never get back to the earnings I was once on.

[edit on 19/6/08 by Wotan]

[edit on 19/6/08 by Wotan]

You want to know why I left nursing ?

Two reason.

1) To look after our little one, and 2) because I earn MORE a week working two 12 hour shifts at Tescos in their warehouse than i did in a FULL 40 hour week - My wifes moved out of the NHS as well - Her basic in the private sector is 30,000 a year.

as to the 'ordinary people' who watch casualty / Holby city / ER and think thats how it should be in real life...

get a life.

...and don't even get me started on health care assistants.


You want a better service ? get behind health care workers and raise the pittance paid at entrance to the profession.

Originally posted by Dan Tanna
...and don't even get me started on health care assistants.


You want a better service ? get behind health care workers and raise the pittance paid at entrance to the profession.

That is how I started into Nursing as a Health Care Assistant. Started as a grade 2/band 2, did my NVQ2, then did my NVQ3 and became a Senior HCA grade 3/band 3, then I was lucky enough to get seconded on a Pre-Registration Nursing Course. In all 6.5 years of contineous training.

Originally posted by Wotan

That is how I started into Nursing as a Health Care Assistant. Started as a grade 2/band 2, did my NVQ2, then did my NVQ3 and became a Senior HCA grade 3/band 3, then I was lucky enough to get seconded on a Pre-Registration Nursing Course. In all 6.5 years of contineous training.

An you are in that small minority who are motivated, keen, trainable, and above all ready to stay the full course to get yourself to where you wanted to be.

That I applaud.

What i cannot stand is the people who see it as 'just another job'.

people enter it thinking that a hospital is just another work place, forgetting the immense privelige it is to be with these people whom are at their most vulnerable, and lay upon them and us a considerable burden of trust.

This trust is abused, misplaced, neglected, and at times scorned.

What i want to see is a national frame work where the NVQ system is mandatory and a full register of health care assistants is kept. Just like the NMC nursing register, but for HCAs.

People out in the real world do not realise how little training and supervision these people have, and it would cause uproar if they found out.

I am not a nurse, but with my recent hospital experience I must defend the nurses from whom I received care for a period of 8 days in a small town US hospital.

We were experiencing a flu epidemic at the time that I was rushed to the ER for a heart problem. The nursing and cleaning staff was also experiencing shortages because of the flu. The hospital was full. All of the working nurses were also putting in long hours of overtime.

On my 3rd day in hospital I began experiencing symptoms that it seemed no one could understand. All day many things were tried but I continued to fade away. It was during the midnight hours that my nurse, of the day and night, came to the conclusion that I was bleeding internally. She called and informed the doctor of her thoughts and he gave her permission to discontinue the Heparin and to insert a catheter.

This nurse saved my life. Two of the doctors told me that I came near to bleeding to death. I did have transfusions when the doctors arrived in the morning hours.

My hat is off, not only to my nurse, but to all the nurses who I saw giving excellent care to patients when most of them, the nurses, were exhausted from over work.

Mahree