Government to pastor: Renounce your faith!

Government to pastor: Renounce your faith!

www.wnd.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

When these types of government attacks on Christianity in the name of "equality" and "anti-descrimination against minorities" were confined to France and Germany, that was one thing. The fact that they have now made their way to our closest neighbor scares the hell out of me. Anyone here who is Catholic or conservative protestant will instantly recognize that one of the core beliefs of our faiths is that homosexuality is a sin. If a government can censure a religious group from teaching that as it is laid out in our Bible, then what's to say the next step won't be for them to say the Bible's condemnation of adultery, lying, stealing, etc can't be taught? Eventually they could even determine that just merely teaching the primary tenent of the entire religion "Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Light" is descriminatory to all non-believers and cannot be taught, written, or spoken.

This should scare the hell out of every Canadian, Christian and otherwise. And don't feel like I'm singling out Canada here, because the demonization of everything Christian related (10 commandments, Christmas trees, prayer, "Under God", etc) in the United States is almost certainly a predecessor to our government eventually doing the same thing. How very sad.

www.wnd.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

I wouldn't say it's a core belief. It's more like part of the belief system. A core belief would be saying that your God is the only God. Or that Jesus is the Christ.

Well... I honor your choice to believe what you wish, but I personally suspect you have been mislead. (The Terra Papers thread opened my eyes... www.abovetopsecret.com... )

Still, I think it is wrong for the government to insist on anyone denouncing their beliefs. I don't think there is a problem in someone who is injured in the name of another's beliefs suing. But for a government to tell someone not to express their beliefs... That is just wrong.

reply to post by kelbtalfenek

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Actually it's a part of the Dogma of the RCC, and is, therefore, certainly a core belief of the faith. Those who do not believe it is a mortal sin are technically heretical, though the American Bishops have become disturbingly lax on enforcement of most any morality based issue of disagreement with Dogma.

reply to post by burdman30ott6

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Actually, Christmas trees are of a worldly/pagan origin. Personally, I believe Christmas to be a travesty anyway, for there was no command to celebrate Jesus' birth. But you are right: when preacher can be told, indirectly, by government to "shut up or lock up", one wonders where the freedom of speech has gone.

reply to post by J.Smit

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That is true, but you never hear anyone protesting a Paganmas school play. Hell, look at Holloween... very much a pagan holiday and one that can be openly celebrated, decorated for, and acknowledged by any and every government agency, employee, and office that wishes to do so. Yet because Christmas trees have been embraced as a symbol of the spirit of the holiday by Christians and others, heads will roll if one is put up in a public place and not expressly called a "holiday tree."

That's absolutely true, and that's how I'd like to see it. Religion is not the law. You're just getting what you give, karma. If an Athiest in the senate was to make such a statement about Christianity you'd be just as outraged, but since it's a Christian/catholic man of faith making statements about the sinful nature of one Human's love to another because his bible tells him so, then it's for you to defend and become upset about?

There is nothing wrong with who another Human Being decides to love. True love goes far beyond someone's sex. I have no problem with homosexuals in general, though as with all people there will always be individuals that I disagree with.

reply to post by burdman30ott6

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I think you are missing the scariest part of this story. A person has had his right to speak freely removed by a court. An incredibly scary event. Far worse than anything I've seen in the US.

Even more disturbing is that court has removed his right to religious speech. Sounds like Canada is really close to becoming a carbon copy of the old USSR.

This has the potential for repercussions way beyond homosexuality.

reply to post by burdman30ott6

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If a guy believes being gay is immoral that is his choice and no government should stop him from his feelings. That is a big debate in the Christian world the debate of homosexuality. Talk about pulling freedom of speech hell freedom of thought...HOW DARE YOU THINK SUCH THINGS!!!

I do want to throw this in above though. I am also a believer if you want to be gay that is your choice and I also feel that the states need to get out of the business of marriage. Its a religious thing and the states should not be in that business. If they want to do the civil union thing for whatever tax reasons or legal issues then fine but marriage the term is for a man and a woman and it is religious and should be separated from state.

Yeah, becuase they're raping little boys. No wonder they've become lax.

Wow as much as I disagree with Christians and what not, this is completely wrong. People can no longer deny that our freedoms are slowly being taken away.

I would expect something like this in Amerika but I never would of thought it would happen in Canada.

Christians have the right to free speech just like everyone else. And if people saying being gay is wrong offends you, than get over it!

Gotta remember folks. Butting into people's lives and telling them how they can live those lives IS a core tenet of Christianity. As is crying foul when someone returns the favor.

The irony is that all of you guys are upset that this guy is being told "renounce your faith (if WND is to believed - personally I find it prone to sensationalism, but whaddevah) - but NOT upset by this pastor's demands that the state bow to his religion. It's just the same damn thing, just going the other way.

I don't agree with either direction of course. But I can freely admit I find the double standard to be funny.

reply to post by theendisnear69

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When your freedom of speech becomes used as a weapon of abuse and illogical bias, then you should be reprimanded, just as you would be if you were to commit any other abusive crime. I am free to purchase a gun, but I should be disciplined if I use that gun to unlawfully and unecessarily harm another Human being.

Freedom of speech does not give the right to insult and take away the harmless liberties and passionate and true loves of others, but those that do so do not deserve to have their own liberties of speech, just as one who would commit assult with a deadly weapon does not deserve and can not be trusted with a "gun".

[edit on 12-6-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

reply to post by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal

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A weapon of abuse? I don't mind gays getting married or anything, i'm just saying that people need to quit crying about being offended.

By bashing someone elses beliefs you are not taking away their liberties or rights to anything. They are just being hateful. That's never gonna change, there will always be hate and we just need to ignore it. Yes christianity is known for damning you to hell if you don't follow their god, but hey who cares. Let them worry while were having fun.

Amazing! While everyone argues over Homosexuality, they could care less about freedom of speech as long as they agree with the decision.

It could just as easily be the other way and Homosexuals could be ordered to stop talking about sexuality in public. God, people are blind.

Not me Im not blind I said this




People have the right to agree or disagree with other peoples way of life and they have the freedom to spell that out. Its only when it turns into a physical threat or intruding on someone elses space is when it doesnt.

Reply to theendisnear69

Well, that's why we have crimes and consequences against them (hate crimes). Your freedom of speech is not to be used as a voice of abuse, slander and dictatorially biased personal opinion, but rather was intended to be the freedom to voice objective reason. Have you forgotten what this country was founded on? Why it was founded and why people came here in the first place? To escape oppression.

Freedom of speech is not to be used to encourage oppression, but rather to discourage it.

If Christianity and various other religions wish to oppress the citizens of the world their universal, existential and emotional right to love who they desire with all their heart, then make it be known and reprimand them for it. It's a two way road.

[edit on 12-6-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

He was NOT ordered to renounce his faith!

The article makes this analogy since his faith is based on the bible and the bible takes an unfavorable stand on homosexuality.

However, this is clearly an infringement of his right to freedom of religion and freedom of speech.

I think that Canada needs to review the decisions that are being made by this tribunal and that these decisions should be seen to be advancing a particular ideology. I think that it's time that this tribunal be disbanded.