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Is Magic real?

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posted on Jan, 1 2003 @ 04:24 PM
Is magic real like controllin elements and making fireballs and stuff like that..
ANy1 got anyinfo on that

posted on Jan, 1 2003 @ 06:51 PM
Yes and no.

Yes, technology can do that.

No, you can't do it with power of the mind.

However, there are other kinds of meditation-based magic that ARE real. And there's also the sleight-of-hand stage magic (important to know about because many fakes such as fake psychic healers use this kind of magic to make it look like they're doing miracles.)

posted on Jan, 1 2003 @ 09:03 PM
Hello Kigga, if I understand your question - you're asking whether or not there exists the "supernatural" type of magic. My response is purely subjective, as these are my own beliefs.

I believe in the supernatural realm. I do believe that there are thousands of fakes and charlatans, but I also believe there is real magical power in this world also.

One interesting magician is David Blaine, most people believe he's just a very clever & polished slight of hand artist. Well, I'm not so convinced of that - in supernatural terms, psychic and magical powers are passed down through the generations. Many witches and clairvoyants claim to have mothers, aunts grandparents etc. who also had the "gift". Some of Mr. Blaines "magic" looks more to me like true supernatural power than tricks. His physically levitating on a street (a known occult phenomenon) and swallowing thread then pulling it out through his flesh is pretty amazing. (Indian and Tibetan Shamans and occult monks are known to have similar powers). Perhaps he has a lineage of magical or occult power transference.

Again, this is just my personal opinion.

Good luck in your search for the Truth,

posted on Jan, 1 2003 @ 09:10 PM
Read up on quantum physic's. Our reality does'nt even a sense. Anything is possible, including throwing fireball's... Found alot of site's, and with talking to bandit, I realized all this. We don't live in a 'physical' universe, it's all ruled by quantum mechanic's where anything and everything that can happen, already has.

posted on Jan, 1 2003 @ 10:13 PM
Hey JamesG, I'd love to read the information that you've got. Please post the URL links so I can check them out.

Many Thanks,

posted on Jan, 2 2003 @ 08:49 AM
Well...I didn't save the links, but I did save the text to my computer....

Quantum Magic
by Andrew Frades
Magic was likely once a way of life rather than the subculture it is now. Through the years science and technology have supplanted it. As we advance science and discover more about the Universe we discover more and more of what we once thought is apparently true.
As Carl Sagan once said, "We are all star stuff," and what is this but the Law of Correspondence, "as above, so below?" If we are "creations of the all" as the Law of Mentalism states then is it not simpler to state everything all began as one thought or potential and everything we see and hear is a creation of that one explosion that began the Universe as we know it. It is not impossible to believe that the Universe started with a simple thought, or statement. Perhaps a thought, or the light of creation, or an explosion? The Big Bang?
Science tells us of molecular motion and defines a quantity known as absolute zero where no motion, no vibration exists. Science then goes on to prove that, in nature at least, nothing ever actually reaches this point. Is this not the Law of Vibration, "everything moves, everything vibrates?"
Another of these great scientific proofs of magical thought lie within the Law of Polarity and the Uncertainty Principle. Polarity speaks of the dual nature of all things, the pair of qualities that are opposites. Polarity speaks to a thing containing only certain amounts of both poles, a classic yin-yang balance of light and darkness, male and female, positive and negative.
Science has a similar law, the Uncertainty Principle. A scientist by the name of Heisenberg demonstrated an unusual property of an electron, and in fact all other particles in nature. The position and momentum of a particle were dual properties. The more information one learned about one the more the other was altered. In order to measure a particle's location another particle (even just a photon or particle of light) must be bounced off the target, changing its momentum. In order to measure a particle's momentum it needs to strike a target and a measurement of the energy released can be taken, but the particle is no longer where it once was. As it turns out the more complete the information about one part of the duality is, the more energy used to determine the exact location or momentum of the particle, the more the other measurement is affected.
The Uncertainty Principle is central to much of modern Quantum Theory and is in fact one of the earliest examples of Quantum Theory in action. Thus central to the creation of much of modern science, including Chaos Theory, is the idea that the observer modifies the experiment, knowingly or not, through their observation. This principle is central to magical theory as well, which states that observation of an act alters the outcome. The experimenter is just another part of their experiment. The magician is a part of their magic. As above so below.
Moving on into more modern, or perhaps even the most modern, form of science we reach Chaos Theory. Chaos Theory itself can be rather simply defined as the study of constantly changing complex systems. It is the idea that minor, seemingly insignificant, changes to a system can produce massive differences in the results, creating unpredictability. One of many classic examples of this is the "Butterfly Theory." This proverbial butterfly would flap its wings in a distant portion of the world and through a series of connected occurrences over time this would lead to a hurricane in New York.
Sound far-fetched? Really? Lets look at another, more concrete, idea. Imagine a water wheel designed like a Ferris wheel with a number of cups that rotate so that they always have the open end up no matter where they are in the wheel's revolution. Each cup has a hole in its bottom so that water poured in will drain at a specific rate. Now introduce a smooth flowing water tap above the center of our wheel. If the water pours slow enough it simply drains out of the cup as it enters and nothing much will happen. If we increase the flow of water a bit the cup begins to fill and will thus be drawn downward by gravity in either direction bringing another cup up to be filled which continues the cycle and creates a circular motion in our wheel. Increase the water flow a bit more and something very unusual happens. Our water wheel will turn in one direction for a bit and then suddenly will begin to turn in the opposite direction, almost unpredictably. Then mysteriously it will do so again and again in an unpredictable pattern. Don't believe me? Build one and try it.
Want simpler experiments to conduct? Do any of the following and repeat them and observe carefully: watch the smoke from a burning cigarette as it climbs in still air, take a cup of black coffee and as smoothly as you can pour in just a bit of cream, drop a bit of syrup into a clear cup of water, or even ask a child to sit still and watch how long they can do it.
Were the results ever the same? Why do you suppose this is? The answer is Chaos. Small, unpredictable, and unobservable, differences in the conditions at the beginning of the experiment that produce greatly different results. All is not lost however, as part of Chaos Theory is a form of mathematics that allows us to discern trends in what we once thought were laws and we now know are more random. Elements such as weather and the stock market follow chaotic rules but through the chaos comes order. Perhaps Chaos Theory is misnamed as what it really contends to do is pull order from the chaos.
Perhaps the ultimate form of Chaos Theory delves into the very nature of the Universe itself. It contends that the laws of nature that we are so comfortable with might be similar to the laws of other systems that are technically governed by Chaos Theory. Meaning that in fact the very atoms that make up our bodies might not exist, they are just a macro pattern of the chaos that lies beneath. As science and mathematics are seeing things now, the Law of Gravity might simply just be a complex pattern discerned from a seemingly random set of variations on some unobservable strata. In other words, gravity is just a good idea.
If, as science states, the observer is a part of the experiment and modifies it simply through observation and that small, indefinable changes in the initial conditions of an experiment can lead to massive changes in the outcome, then is it such a leap to say that the wishes of the observer might change the outcome? That by observing the experiment in certain ways the outcome can be determined, or at least influenced? In fact is science not stating that everyone is actually already doing this, at least a little, if you increase the size of the experiment to include the entire planet we live on?
Simply stated, is not science saying that we, as part of our Earthly experiment can in fact alter it simply by watching it in certain ways? Perhaps with certain intent? Is it possible that the ultimate science will one day prove that magic not only exists, but that we have been magical creatures all along without ever even knowing? We shall have to wait and see.

posted on Jan, 2 2003 @ 08:50 AM
I intend to propose an new analysis of the Cartesian plane in order to demonstrate that the fundamental nature of information in space is ultimately illusory; rather, the core information which determines the essence of each item within a given frame of reference is of a different nature entirely. Thus it can be demonstrated that much of the information which we think of as essential to the analysis of any given structure in fact reduces to 0. This has the effect of dramatically increasing the number of identical objects which exist in this or any other universe.
In his Special Theory of Relativity, Einstein has implied certain points which are particularly relevant to the most basic topic of metaphysics: Of what does fundamental reality consist? That is, which information within apparent reality has independent existence, and which is merely contingent on something else?
In order to separate such Relativistic "wheat from the chaff," let us consider the following two points:
I The only reasonable way of considering multiple objects in motion respective to one another is through relative frames of reference (when doing this however, it is important to note Carezani's correction of Einstein's critical error). By extension, all potential spatial coordinates (including objects and parts of objects) themselves constitute relativistic reference frames.
II Since all frames of reference create curvatures in time and space according to their relative motion, and since all parts of all things are always in motion, each body that exists in space is itself constituted largely of minute and changing curvatures in space and time within itself. This is in marked contrast to the standard physical description of characteristics as being solely dependent on matter and energy, or for that matter upon anything which itself has independent and actual existence.
Just as a purely relativistic model of the universe is incomprehensible in real terms to everyday life (as it reduces existence to nothing more than mathematical equations which are no longer visualizable) so is an accurate description of anything in the universe impossible to measure using the standard x/y/z Cartesian coordinate space, inverted or not. In order to remove all holographic illusions caused by the warping action of matter and energy time and space, it would be necessary for nothing to move, i.e. exist. It's worth pointing out here that this is demonstrable theory is isomorphically identical to the principle in quantum physics of the observer's inevitable influence on any experiment. However, it is even more pervasive than that - we live in a physical universe which is for the most part, completely illusory.
Representation of a fractal image in time, demonstrating the illusion of complexity
In the same way that a fractal image takes a single piece of information and replicates it constantly, reality itself also takes a small piece of information and replicates it it constantly through this "warping" process. As with fractal images, the illusion is that a very complex result has been created, even though it is all made from repeated alterations of the same information. A physics which consisted only of the real, one which accounted for the constant warping of time and space which results in apparent reality would both be incredibly more simple and incredibly more bizarre than the physics which all of Western science has created to date.
Even though we are at present incapable of providing a complete description for such a non-illusory model of physics, there are certain characteristics which we can say for certain that such a model must have:
Any figure in it would have fewer spatial features than those we understand according to Euclidean geometry
Since spacetime must be rotatable within all possible frames of reference, many of its apparent spatial geometric features would be interchangeable with chronological features.
All acute and obtuse angles within this model would cease to occur. It would be impossible to describe without discarding the notion of Cartesian dimensions entirely.
The hypothetical development of such a model, as well as the mathematics necessary to describe it, would necessarily indicate a paradigm shift of such magnitude that all knowledge developed since the ancient Greeks could very well be discarded. While it is rarely appropriate in a scholarly paper to discuss the impact of such developments on social structures, it is worrisome to me that the exposure of a true model of reality could very well take man back to the Stone Age. My own ethics as a scientist force me to leave the obvious question of these ramifications to others. Fortunately for humankind, it is extremely unlikely that such a model could ever be developed, much less accepted by the academic world at large.
Elward Bruce
Chair of Natural Philosophy
Lachart University, Scotland

posted on Jan, 2 2003 @ 08:50 AM
Quantum magic: Reality described by quantum mechan




In quantum mechanics, reality is described by waves defining the probabilities
of different outcomes from the same interactions. These waves manifest as what
we have been taught to call matter, energy, particles, and/or waves when

These probability waves overlap and continue forever. The interactions
between different entities constitute a single structure of linked wave
patterns, so that the entire universe can be thought of as an unbroken whole
The waves form a matrix, with all parts of the system affecting all other
parts. Non- local relationships exist between parts of the system that are
distant from each other [1]. It is impossible to distinguish two particles
of the same type in a region of space in which they may be found
simultaneously [2]. Particles loose their individual identity in such
regions. Thus, the physical universe is fundamentally unified.

The basic equation of non-relativistic quantum mechanics is Schrodinger's Wave
Equation [2]:

2 2

i h (p)Q /(p)t = - h /2m Delta Q + V(x,y,z) Q

satisfying the normalizing condition:

Integral 2

over all |Q| dx dy dz = 1



h = 6.63E-34 joule sec / (2 pi)

pi = 3.14...

V(x,y,z) = Potential energy, as a function of coordinates x, y and z

m = Mass

t = Time

(p) = Partial derivitive of 2

Q = Wave function of the particle, where Q dx dy dz is the probability that
the particle may be found in the volume element dx dy dz at a particular
time Values of Q are components of the "state vector."

Values of Q are quantum mechanically defined states and constitute components
of the "state vector." These quantum mechanically defined states define the
probabilities of various results from quantum mechanically defined
interactions [2]. In one orthodox interpretation of quantum mechanics, a
system exists simultaneously in all quantum mechanically possible states until
an observer (or apparatus outside the system) interacts to "collapse" the
state vector and obtain an observation.

Quantum mechanical systems can go from one configuration to another instantly,
without passing through any states in between. Quantum mechanical movement is
discontinuous, with all actions occurring in discrete amounts (quanta).

Schrodinger himself discovered one of quantum mechanics' more distinctive
features: whenever two systems interact, the mathematical waves that
represent the two systems do not separate but remain linked. The link does
not drop off with distance and the link acts instantaneously at both
locations, but the specificity of the link can be diluted through interactions
with other objects [7].


There are lots of hypotheses on the nature of the underlying reality described
statistically by quantum mechanics.

* Some scientists are content with the hypothesis that there is no more subtle
structure than the probability waves described by quantum mechanics; and
reality, at its most basic level, has a large amount of randomness whose
limits are described by the quantum mechanical wave function, making the wave
function itself the fundamental reality. This is called the probability
doctrine It asserts that such indetermination is a property inherent in
nature and not merely a profession of our temporary ignorance, from which we
expect to be relieved by a future better and more complete theory [2].

* Einstein speculated that there must be some underlying mechanism, some
hidden variables, that uniquely determines the outcome of the interactions
quantum theory can only statistically predict.

* J.S. Bell showed mathematically that, if such a mechanism exists, and the
math of quantum mechanics is strictly correct, hidden variables must not have
any functional dependence on the separation of events in space and time [3].

* According to David Bohm, from both a consideration of the meaning of the
mathematical equations and from the results of experiments, particles can be
understood as projections of a higher-dimensional reality. This reality can
not be accounted for by any force of interaction between independent entities,
but can be understood as a process of enfoldment in a higher dimensional space
[1]. Information within the quantum wave determines the outcome of the
quantum process. This information is potentially active everywhere but only
actually active when and where it enters into the energy of an observed
particle, implying that all particles have complex inner structures [10].

* Recently, superstring theory has been proposed, describing a ten dimensional
webwork of space-time at an incredibly small scale (1E-33 cm) underlying the
phenomenon described statistically by quantum mechanics, relatively, particle
physics etc.

Some scientists consider speculation about the nature of the underlying
reality to be irrelevant, since the predictions of quantum mechanical
equations match the statistics of the results of experiments. To the best of
my knowledge, experiments have not been performed that unambiguously
distinguish between these alternative world-views. On the other hand,
experiments have been proposed; and some work is underway to check some
predictions of superstring theory. Eventually, from the results of
experiments, some of these hypotheses may be screened out and others elevated
to the level of scientific theory.

We are one and the same as the structures that underlie the matter and energy
that we manifest as; and that structure is continuous, interconnected, and non
local in nature Whatever the underlying structure behind the interconnected
wave pattern described by quantum mechanics (if any), we are that.


Getting back to established scientific theory, normal waking consciousness
occurs when the nerve cell firing rate (synaptic switching rate) is high
enough to spread out the waves associated with electrons to fill the gaps
between nerve cells (synaptic clefts) with waves of probability of similar
amplitude This is described mathematically by the quantum mechanical
mechanism of tunneling. These waves are interconnected throughout regions of
the brain through resonances, resulting in a large, complex, unified, quantum
mechanically defined resonance matrix filling a region in the brain. The
waves are interconnected with each other and with information storage and
sensory input mechanisms within these regions of the brain.

The nerve cell firing rate (v') at which this occurs has been modeled
mathematically by Evan Harris Walker (at the U.S. Army Ballistics Center at
Aberdeen Proving Ground) and corresponds to the threshold between waking and
sleeping consciousness in people and animals. For normal waking consciousness
to exist, the synapse transmission frequency for the brain (v') must satisfy
the condition:

2/3 v' must be greater than or equal to N/T


N = The total number of synapses in the brain (in humans, about 5E11)

T = Synaptic transmission delay time (the time interval required for the
propagation of the excitation energy from one synapse to another)

This theory ascribes consciousness to an association of the events occurring
at any one synapse with events occurring at other synapses in the brain by
means of a quantum mechanical propagation of information. The sense of
individual identity is an aspect of the continuity of the wave matrix residing
in the brain [4].


By merely observing a phenomenon (resonating ones brain with it) one can
affect the outcome, since the physical mechanisms in your brain are part of
the wave matrix described by quantum mechanics. The information handling rate
in resonance determines the amount of effect, along with the elapsed time of
resonance and the probability distribution of the phenomenon you are observing
[5]. According to Evan Harris Walker, quantum mechanical state selection can
be biased by an observer if [5]:

W te is greater than or equal to -Log P(Qo-Qi) Q 2


P(Qo-Qi) = Probability that state Qi will occur by chance alone

W = Information handling rate of process in brain
associated with state vector selection (bits/sec)

te = Elapsed time

Q = Overall state vector

Qo = Initial physical state of system

Qi = State that manifests "paranormal" target event

The effect of consciousness is incredibly small on macroscopic systems; but it
can be measurable when it occurs on quantum mechanically defined and divergent
systems, where a slight change can amplify itself as it propagates through the
system. The effect is about 1E-17 degrees on the angle of the bounce of cubes
going down an inclined plane Changes in the angle of bounce result in
changes in displacement of the cubes that increase about 50% on every bounce,
and the effect is measurable after many bounces [6]. The theory successfully
and quantitatively modeled the differing amounts of displacement observed in
experiments on cubes of different weights and weight distributions [5].

Walker also modeled information retrieval in "guess the card" experiments.
Simple, classical, random chance would predict a smooth, binomial curve for
the probabilities of getting the right answer versus the number of subjects
making successful predictions at these probabilities. Walker's model predicts
that the curve would have peaks at certain levels of probability of getting
the right answer above those predicted by chance alone Experimental data
showed peaks at the locations modeled. However, more people were successful
at the higher probability levels than Walker's model estimated. This is
considered to be evidence of learning enhancement [5].


Mr. Walker's ideas and equations would only be hypotheses if it weren't for
the fact that they have been tested experimentally and found to predict the
results of experiments with reasonable accuracy [4,5]. The evidence meets the
usual rules of proof for scientific theory, and this makes Walker's equations
legitimate scientific theory.

The non-local underlying wave patterns beneath manifestations of matter and
energy that we hold in common with our surroundings allow us to influence
reality and to obtain information about it using the power of the mind. This
underlying interconnecting pattern is the very stuff of consciousness and
manifests, not only as matter & energy, but also as psychokinesis,
precognition and other phenomenon that are only now beginning to be recognized
and embraced by some theories of modern physics.


Deflections caused by consciousness are not caused by force or energy in the
conventional sense; but by something more subtle, namely effects within the
underlying wave structure out of which matter and energy are manifestations
(collapse of the state vector) [5].

To psychically obtain information about a target or to psychically influence
events, one has to have one's brain resonating with aspects of reality
interconnecting the brain with the target. The more one's brain resonates
with non-local aspects of reality connecting with a target, the more
communication and direct influence one can have on it.

The more fundamentally diverse the potential outcomes of a process targeted
are, the more effect one gets from resonating ones brain with it [5]. Also,
the more small changes in the system tend to amplify as larger changes in the
end result, the more effect one can get. This provides an explanation of why
patterns exist within seemingly random events and why successful magic often
results in a chain of synchronicities.

For a given subject (performing under optimum conditions and having no
difficulty visualizing the nature of the experimental target nor psychological
aversions to the target), the magnitudes of the results obtained in tasks to
affect the readings on measuring devices (such as magnetometers, radiation
detectors, Josephson effect devices, balances, etc.) can be related to one
another by calculating the probability of the reading based on the standard
physical principles of quantum mechanics [5].

The sporadic nature of psi phenomena can be explained as a matter of outside
observers randomizing the process, causing dilution of will data channels and
randomizing the results [5]. Thus, the need for secrecy in magical

One can no longer maintain the division between the observer and observed or
between consciousness and the physical world. Rather, both observer and
observed, along with both consciousness and the material world, are merging
and interpenetrating aspects of one whole indivisible reality [1].

Whatever the subtle level of reality underlying matter and energy, we are that
(including our consciousness). If hidden variables exist, we are the hidden
variables. It has been theorized that consciousness is an inseparable aspect
of this underlying reality. When our awareness connects with the deepest
layer of reality interconnecting everything, we may experience the level of
consciousness beyond time and form reported by many mystics. It is this non
local structure that we share with nature that makes it possible to "attune to
nature," to psychically participate in nature, and to live in accordance with

What we are usually aware of (normal waking consciousness) is a relatively
superficial movement in the order of things. Behind the things we are aware
of in waking consciousness are a vast array of less strongly linked phenomena.
This latter realm is commonly called the unconscious (and parts of it the
subconscious). The unconscious is not very accurate, since it forms a kind of
ground of consciousness [8]. Our awareness can link with this ground of
consciousness to gain information and to influence events.


At this point, I diverge from theory and describe some plausible hypotheses.
Consciousness, at a fundamental level, is associated with the continuity of
the underlying structures out of which matter and energy manifest. Everything
shares this continuous structure; therefore everything has consciousness to
some degree (though not necessarily normal waking consciousness).

Quoting from Evan Harris Walker (4): "Consciousness may exist without being
associated with either a living system or a data processing system. Indeed,
since everything that occurs is ultimately the result of one or more quantum
mechanical events, the universe is 'inhabited' by an almost unlimited number
of rather discrete, conscious, usually non-thinking entities that are
responsible for the detailed working of the universe These conscious
entities determine (or exist concurrently with the determination) singly the
outcome of each quantum mechanical event, while the Schrodinger equation (to
the extent that it is accurate) describes the physical constraint placed on
their freedom of action collectively."

In shamanic and in religious practice, one resonates with other intelligences
to get their assistance, inviting them to join in the work at hand. These
intelligences can be thought of as consciousness resonance matrices. Some may
be localized, as we are (such as other biological intelligences, plant divas,
power spot spirits, some deities, etc.); and some may be non localized (spirit
animals in the other world, some deities, etc.).

The personalities of the Gods, Goddesses and spirits that many practitioners
of religion relate to can also be thought of as consciousness resonance
matrices. They can be very non-specific and disperse, or very specific (such
as the Orishas and other deities that can manifest in full possession of those
who invoke them).


Consider a typical structure of magical ritual and its quantum mechanical

* Purify one's mind and one's surroundings, freeing them of interfering
resonances, quieting the static so that one can get a clear and strong
resonance on the target desired.

* Achieve a non-localized state of consciousness, often by resonating one's
mind with one's inner being, with the Earth, the sky, and ones surroundings.

* Meditate on the elements (Earth, Air, Fire, Water) representing non-local
essences. This helps your mind to resonate powerfully non-locally.

* After reaching out with one's mind and connecting its resonance pattern
intimately with the non-local web of wave patterns connecting everything,
invoke deities whose natural function is related to the purpose of your
ritual. If successful, this connects your mind to a powerful, established,
non-localized, intelligent resonance matrix that (hopefully) joins in the

* Focus on the target of the work, connecting with the target.

* While connected with the target, visualize the end result desired, thus
creating a resonant template for the phenomenon one wants to achieve

* Energize the resonance through dance, drumming, chants, pure channeling of
will power, or other means.

* Release the energy into the target while strongly visualizing the target
achieved (energizing the resonance in the target).

* Ground, removing ones mind from the direct, resonant link with the target,
so that the patterns you have set in motion in the target can continue with
minimum interference (to throw a ball, one has to let go).

* Thank and say goodbye to the intelligences one works with, thus
disconnecting one's mind further from other resonance matrices.

There are other forms of magic, and much more detail to the forms I described.
There are also ethical considerations. This paper provides a description of
some aspects of the integration of quantum mechanics with magickal thinking,
but it does not cover everything.


To read about theories of magic is like reading about sports. You may pick up
a few ideas; but to become proficient, you must participate and play the game
People have been teaching and performing magic for thousands of years, without
the benefit of quantum theory. Many magicians have had to separate their
scientific training from their magical practice Now, magical theory has been
merged with scientific theory, and more of the mind of those trained in
science can resonate with magic. Also, critics of magic can be shown the
scientific theory and data validating it, to show that there is more to magic
than superstition.

I have not seen any other quantitative scientific theories that explain the
results of experiments on psychokinesis, extrasensory perception, and
consciousness as accurately as Walker's theory, or that give as satisfying of
an explanation of the synchronicities that I, as a worker of magic and a
scientist, have observed from personal experience This is not to say that
these ideas represent ultimate truth, that alternative theories no not exist,
or that flaws will not be found and that alternative theories will not replace
them. I would welcome hearing from others who have additional information and
insight into the applicability and limitations of the theories of modern
Physics as applied to the occult.


One interesting hypothesis is that of multiple universes. As I understand it,
this hypothesis states that all of the alternative possibilities allowed by
quantum mechanics actually occur, but in different universes. Magicians can
interpret their magic as moving their awareness between these alternative
universes. I have never seen the multiple universe theory set up
mathematically in a way that would allow it to be quantitatively tested, using
physical measurements (like was done with Mr. Walker's theory), but it would
be interesting to determine if and to what extent the multiple universe
hypothesis can be integrated with Mr. Walker's theory. Consciousness, acting
at a gross level, seems to be relativistic - something experienced by
observers relative to their frames of reference Consciousness, at its
ultimate level, seems to be subtler than time and location.

When two observers see the same thing, they both may have certain experiences
in common, they both may affect the thing observed, and they may report some
of the events the same and some differently. Experience may be categorized in
a multiple universe mode and/or in a single universe mode If would be
interesting to know which mode is most useful for various purposes.

It is obvious that some people have such a different personal perception of
reality as to be seemingly out of touch with the world we experience around
them. Their self-world image becomes more important than anything, and they
adjust their memories and perceptions to meet whatever emotional needs they
have at the time [9]. Delusions of personal reality and the high probability
that such realities are real for the person experiencing that reality can
result in interesting questions about what is real and what is unreal.

Although the universe may be a seamless whole, most physicists describe it in
two different modes, depending on whether things are being observed or not

* A classical, mechanistic mode for the definite attributes of observation,

* A statistical, mathematical, quantum mechanical mode for the wave patterns
described by quantum mechanics.

David Bohm has begun to develop new terminology that integrates both the
process of observation and quantum theory [1].


1. Bohm, David. Wholeness and the Implicate Order, ARK Paperbacks, London,

2. Merzbacher, Eugene Quantum Mechanics, John Wiley and Sons, Inc., New
York, 1967.

3. Bell, J.S. "On the Problem of Hidden Variables in Quantum Mechanics,
Review of Modern Physics 38, 447-452, 1966.

4. Walker, Evan H. "The Nature of Consciousness," Mathematical Biosciences
7, 1970.

5. Walker, Evan H. The Complete Quantum Mechanical Anthropologist. U.S. Army
Ballistic Research Laboratories, Aberdeen Proving Ground, Maryland, presented
at the 73rd Annual American Anthropological Association Meeting, Mexico City,
November 19-24, 1974.

6. Walker, Evan H. and Nick Herbert. "Hidden Variables: Where Physics and
the Paranormal Meet," Future Science, edited by John White and Stanley
Krippner, Anchor books, Garden City, New York, 1977.

7. Herbert, Nick. "Notes Toward A User's Guide to the Quantum Connection,"
Psychological Perspectives 38, Jung Institute of Los Angeles, Spring-Summer

8. Bohm, David. "Consciousness and Self-Consciousness-A Working Paper,"
Psychological Perspectives 38, Jung Institute of Los Angeles, Spring-Summer

9. Bohm, David. "Beyond Relativity and Quantum Mechanics," Psychological
Perspectives 38, Jung Institute of Los Angeles, Spring-Summer 1988.

10. Bohm, David and Peat, David. Science Order and Creativity, Bantam,


Note that "E" in numbers like 5E11 stands for five "times ten to the" eleventh

posted on Jan, 2 2003 @ 08:51 AM
The Chicken and Egg question is an issue which seems to be unsolvable, using society's present belief system. However, the concept of Simultaneous Time answers, explains, and negates the entire idea of anything coming first. Prepare yourself to delve into an all-expansive topic which will utterly shatter your concept of time, space, and physical reality.
To begin with, just because you can't see or touch something does not mean it doesn't exist. They laughed at Thomas Edison when he said he could make light come out of an empty glass tube. The lack of belief in an incandescent lamp did not stop the bulb from lighting! I am glad Mr. Edison had the good sense to ignore those narrow minded fools of his time! In fact, I thank him every time I turn on my light switch -- and you should too!
What does Thomas Edison have to do with Simultaneous Time? Not much directly, but his spirit is a reminder that you can break down the barriers society has erected against you. Barriers which stop you from understanding and accepting useful ideas, like Simultaneous Time.
To begin with, your past, your present, and your future exist NOW, simultaneously, within the Ever Present Moment. As we covered in the last chapter, the Ever Present Moment is your intersection point to other energy patterns. Each present moment is a doorway to the moments that came before and the moments that are to come. If this doorway did not exist, the present moment would not either. For example, It is logical to assume that to get to the moment you are in now, you had to go through the past moments which led up to your present moment. Now, let's take this idea one more step. If past moments exist -- because you had to pass through them -- than the future moments must exist too. Think of it like this: how can you move from or to something that does not exist?
Think of the past, present, and future as three rooms. You are in the center room. This room's name is the present. Now, directly behind you is the past room -- you just came from there. Ahead of you is the future room -- you are going there. Now, if that future room did not exist, you would have no place to step into; as also, if the past room did not exist, you could not step into the place you are now.

Because you feel you can not peek into that future room or back into that past room, you feel they can't exist. Yet you walk easily from one physical room to another, without first peeking into them -- and you don't think twice about it. So it is with Simultaneous Time, you effortlessly walk from moment to moment, without a second thought about where you have been or where you are going. Obviously the carpenter built those physical rooms for you to walk through, and because he built them, they exist. Well, the carpenter for your past, present, and future is yourself. Are you going to deny the existence of yourself? Then don't deny the existence of your past or future.
What we are doing here, with this room to moment analogy, is breaking down those barriers that society has erected. In actuality, there is no difference between walking through rooms and moments. Both items are energy through which you move. However, the difference between them is in the patterns that the energy takes, at any given time. Once your consciousness tunes into a particular energy pattern, that energy pattern becomes part of your conscious moment and becomes your point-of-power. The fact is that the any physical room, the past, the present, and the future are all energies which exist together, within the Ever Present Moment!
Can we access these other energies contained within the encapsulated moment? Yes! These other moments, which encompass the Ever Present Moment, are accessible. Simultaneous Time coupled with the Ever Present Moment demand it to be so; and the instrument which enables you to obtain this information is with you all the time: your consciousness.
Because your past and future are accessible from the Ever Present Moment, you can check on, alter, and even communicate with those moments! Think for a minute how powerful and advantageous that can be for you now. Imagine calling on a future self, to help solve your present dilemma! Imagine going back into your past, so that you could warn a past self of a potentially dangerous event. What would those actions do for you now? The potential is infinite -- and awesome!
No longer will you hang on an unknown future or a disturbing present event. No longer will the past haunt you. The answer is simple! Go back and change those past moments or go forward and see what you will do. Your past and future, as well as your present, exist together within the present moment because time is simultaneous. Remember your point-of-power. Your point-of-power is your key to access those other moments. With your point-of-power properly focused, you can change what was and what will be, or look into what was and what will be, or even talk to what was and what will be.
Now that we have hyped you up, let's come down-to-earth a bit, before we go any further. By shifting your point-of-power and traveling backward in time, to change some undesired event, there are things that are not going to change, as far as your current moment concerns itself. For example, if you changed into a job that you regretted and you go back to that past self and stop that person from changing jobs, that is not going to alter the fact that you changed jobs in your reality. However, what will change is your present feelings that accompanied that mistake. You will no longer feel regret for that past action. You will have helped another part of yourself make a wiser move.
Furthermore, that changing of your past, through the Ever Present Moment, will influence the future you are drawing toward you. The past you have changed will cause other conditions to spring about more suited to your present needs. Eventually, your present moment will change into conditions similar to what you would be experiencing, had you not made the erroneous decision. Also, as if that is not enough, Simultaneous Time dictates that once you begin to reach to your past selves, to help them through difficult times, your future selves will come to your aid when you need it.
Now, the extension of future selves, in a reality that is simultaneous in nature, should bring you to the idea of your Higher-Self. You've heard people talking about that all-knowing self locked away some place. Your Higher-Self is a future self of you eons from now. Simultaneous Time unlocks that elusive Higher-Self and brings that wisdom right into your present. Your Higher-Self knows what is best for you because, in your Higher-Self's Ever Present Moment, your future is his past! Simultaneous Time is one reason your Higher-Self cares and loves you so much. Your present moment is his past. Your Higher-Self knows the all important lesson of Simultaneous Time: to make the present the best it can be, you must make the past and future the best they can be. Your Higher-Self loves you dearly -- for without you, he would not exist. Likewise, without your past, you would not exist. Therefore, when dealing with a past self, use only love, kindness, and compassion. Remember! It's you you are reaching out to.
Let's talk about how you can reach your past and future self from the Ever Present Moment, using your point-of-power. For this exercise, and your first few times doing the routine, limit your contact to the past. In the beginning, it is easier to make the connection to a past personality than a future one. Also, it may be helpful, but not necessary, to get an old photo of yourself taken around that time you wish to travel back to.
First, to accomplish this connection, you will need to shift your point-of-power from the reality you know. Find a comfortable spot, but one that will not put you to sleep. You can sit or lie down. We find that sitting on the floor with your back against the wall works the best. Take a moment to relax. If you have a picture of yourself, take these moments to look at it. Try to get a feel for the time and era you are trying to reach. Think about the feelings that were going through you then. Now, close your eyes.
Place your finger tips together -- without letting your palms or your adjacent fingers touch each other. Each finger tip, including your thumbs, should touch each other. Your right thumb tip should touch your left thumb tip. Your right index tip should touch your left index tip ... and so forth. There should be about a one inch space between your palms, and there should be at least a half-inch space between each touching finger. Only your finger tips should be touching. The tops of your fingers should point up and be near your chest. This finger positioning is very important -- it connects all your energy centers in such a way that enables this technique to work easily.

Now, start taking slow, easy breaths. After about a minute, try to feel yourself floating within a warm, cozy bubble of energy. At this point, you should feel your energy-level rising. You may even notice a burning or a chill running up and down you spine. That sensation is good. It is a sign that your energy centers are active.
Now, mentally look outward through your energy bubble, as if you are looking into a great distance. Think about the past self you wish to contact. Picture that person in your mind. Now, visualize before you a calendar. This calendar should start with today's date. Begin to turn the pages of the calendar backward, faster and faster, glancing at the dates as they go by. Stop when you reach the approximate period you want.
Now, see that past person clearly in your mind. Do not worry, in the beginning, if you feel this process is all in your imagination. In time, the images within your mind will become more clear and more real. Tell that person the advice you came to communicate. Now, travel forward in time a bit -- visualize that other past self following your advice and watch the new outcome.
Now, you may return. Picture that imaginary calendar flipping forward and stop when you reach your time and reality. Take some deep breaths to center yourself. Open your eyes. The technique is complete.

The whole process should take no longer than ten or fifteen minuets -- less time than that when you get good at it. Try to do the exercise once or twice a week, until you get the knack of it. After that, you can use the routine as much or as little as you like.
As you get better with this routine, you should use the procedure for contacting a future self, though this contacting may not always be necessary. Once you begin establishing a good connection with your past selves, you may find future selves visiting you, without the need to program yourself to go there. A future self is most likely to visit you right before you begin to turn those calendar pages backward. However, don't be surprised if you find a future self popping up in other places, like in your dreams or in the form-of whispers in your ear. Remember, your future selves are better at this exercise than you are. They have been doing it longer than you! They have improved on the process!
That's it! So which came first, the chicken or the egg? If you have been following me, neither chicken nor egg came first. They exist together. One can not exist without the other -- when the egg came into being, so did the chicken. When God created you, your past and future came into being. As far as Simultaneous Time is concerned, it does not matter. As far as God is concerned, he recreates you every moment -- moment to moment. If God is not concerned about this which came first thing, than why should you?
In the next chapter we will dive further into the Ever Present Moment and explore another doorway that exists, the probability doorway. Probabilities are what enables you to choose from a myriad of possible futures. So get ready! The next chapter will finish the mind-blowing this chapter began!

posted on Jan, 2 2003 @ 11:37 AM
Good job JamesG, I appreciate the information as it's totally unfamiliar to me.


posted on Jan, 2 2003 @ 12:28 PM
Hey James,

Don't violate the ATS code of conduct. (copyright and stuff).

The links are here:

posted on Jan, 2 2003 @ 02:04 PM

posted on Mar, 23 2003 @ 09:09 AM
JamesG was given permission from the author to post what he posted through e-mail ... I know this for a fact ... err, cuz I'm him?

posted on Mar, 24 2003 @ 07:44 AM

Maybe just post links next time? If not on a site you can link to, many ATS users would likely post it to their sites so you could link to it...
(just a friendly tip).

I wanted to answer this one though:

"Some of Mr. Blaines "magic" looks more to me like true supernatural power than tricks. His physically levitating on a street (a known occult phenomenon) and swallowing thread then pulling it out through his flesh is pretty amazing. (Indian and Tibetan Shamans and occult monks are known to have similar powers). "

Most of the tricks done by such occult practicioners are known, such as the levitation bit (using a well designed high strength steel support with good geometric principles of weight distribution, hidden by a hanging garment, robe, etc.) and other such tricks by mystics. As another poster claimed though, there are genuine mind over matter techniques though, that have been illustrated in a scientific setting. Likewise, most of our "solid" world is really nothing but a lot of empty space. Keep in mind, that we are made up of cells, which are made of molecules (with empty space in between), which are made up of atoms (more empty space in between), which are then made of protons, neutrons, electons, etc. (which have even more empty space in between). It's only a matter of how close these molecules, etc. are all to each other (i.e. such as in the various states of matter) that make it seem solid.

posted on Mar, 24 2003 @ 08:03 AM
Magic is Science, and Science is Magic, it just depends on which side you choose to claim.

posted on Mar, 24 2003 @ 08:10 AM
In my opinion, it's what your mind wants you to see.

Mind manipulation. Anyone ever hear of Criss Angel?
I saw him on Broadway at the World Theatre.

Check out his web site.


posted on Mar, 25 2003 @ 02:08 AM
In a nutshell, magic works as well as you *believe* it to work. However, the biggest stumbling block that people need to overcome is to know *what* to believe & *how* to believe...Any shred of doubt prevents this belief from forming & therefore disrupts the magic from working. This is why some types of magic cannot be performed if there even happens to be a non-believer present.

[Edited on 25-3-2003 by MidnightDStroyer]

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