Ghost Hunters snag an obvious hoaxer?

On the newest ep:

The team investigates Moss Beach Distillery in California.

The owner had set up a fake mask behind the women's bathroom mirror, a speaker hidden in the ceiling and a pneumatic piston set up to move the hanging lights over the bar.

Jason and Grant outed these during the 'reveal', but were much too kind to the scalawag that perpetrated the hoax and called them out. The establishment fronted the chief Chef who blamed the owner, but worse, the Chef tried to blow it off and didn't even seem embarrassed. What a jerk.

Guess they had to be diplomatic for the sake of the show, but they were pissed as you can see in their comments to each other on the way home later. Can't blame them one bit.




[edit on 4-6-2008 by Badge01]

Yeah, just saw that one. What a douchebag. I can't believe the balls some people have when these cats are trying to do some pretty serious investigating.

Loser.

Well thats not the first hoax that I have seen on that show, I remember one where they were on some boat and they set up a camera in a room with a bed to catch any happenings, and some stopped the camera just to move the covers then pressed play on the camera.

The stuff in that distillery are pretty well known apparently. Pilgrim was also told about them also Jason I believe does mentioned he was told about this place by family members out in California why wouldn't they tell him about the extra stuff in the place?.

forums.scifi.com...

reply to post by shai hulud


Their investigations are not serious. They might think they are, and they might use a lot of equipment, and they might even say the right words, but they lack any scientific integrity. Regardless of their intentions, the sheer number of variables in their experiments and complete lack of control means any evidence gleaned is useless.

No-one will ever learn anything from Ghost Hunters, at least not about the paranormal.

Though you might diss the GH, and say they are not serious, but they clearly say their number one priority is to find the prosaic explanation for stories of activity, including reflected lights, loose pipes, rattling plumbing and leaky faucets.

They are NOT trying to prove the paranormal. Sometimes their answer is that it's unknown.

Also, does it matter what went on behind the scenes? According to their reaction in the van going home, they were not told and they wasted their time. Sure, shows are creatively edited. But the point remains, their purpose is to help those clients who call them in distress.

In that sense, these jokers possibly kept them from going on a case where real help was needed. Shame on them (the owner and chef).

Originally posted by dave420
reply to post by shai hulud

 

Regardless of their intentions, the sheer number of variables in their experiments and complete lack of control means any evidence gleaned is useless.

Ghost Hunters don't perform experiments, they perform investigations. Contrary to what you seem to believe, they aren't setting out to proved or disprove any hypothesis. They are simply gathering evidence. At some point in the future a science-minded chap could come along after being inspired by what Ghost Hunters captured and create a hypothesis, set out to create experiments, and then prove or disprove their hypothesis - but that would be another show.

You might be thinking about that other crap show Myth Busters. Those fools attempt to prove or disprove several hypotheses every episode with no working knowledge of how to apply the scientific method. Everything you said is valid about Myth Busters because they really do perform experiments.

There is a very real scientific differences between an investigation and an experiment.

Jon

It is common knowledge among the locals here in CA that the Distillery installed those contraptions because they (management and staff) grew tired of people being disappointed when there was no ghostly manifestation to experience. While the restaurant may indeed have legitimate paranormal activity, we all know these manifestations tend to be random at best.

What mystified me was that the chef didn't bother to fill the GH's in regarding these "special effects." Did he really think the GH's wouldn't fiond them? Or was he "testing" their debunking skills. Pretty dishonest on the part of the chef, and may have totally discredited a potentially legit location of paranormal activity. As a native Californian, I must admit, I was pretty embarrassed by the behavior of the Distillery's representative.

reply to post by Voxel


How can you investigate something you don't know? It's impossible to see something and know what it means if you don't know for sure what's causing it or what effects are at play. That's my entire point. It's impossible for them to ascertain anything about their surroundings apart from stuff that's actually been studied - that's why they can competently debunk air currents, high EMF fields making people feel weird, creaking pipes, etc. because these phenomena are based in science, and the physical laws governing their effects are well known. Those laws can be used to predict the outcome of their interaction, which is what has to happen when you're investigating. You have to see the current state of something, and work out how it happened. Criminal investigators piece together the timeline of events at a scene, figure out motives and opportunity, example forensic evidence gathered from the scene, etc. to work out how and why a crime was committed. All the Ghost Hunters can do is get tapes of alleged EVPs, get video tapes of alleged phenomena, and recount stories of bumps and crashes. That's it. They can't form opinions. They can't try to ascribe motives or causes for these "supernatural" things, because they simply don't know one thing about them. They might have opinions and the ever-present "theories" (always attributed to nameless people), but that doesn't change the fact that they can know nothing about the "ghost" activity in places, because they don't know what you're dealing with.

Originally posted by Badge01
In that sense, these jokers possibly kept them from going on a case where real help was needed. Shame on them (the owner and chef).

Here's the problem with that if they (ghost hunters) actually did the research which I believe Kris Williams is there for they would have found out the place was rigged. It's not a secret that they do that kind of stuff. And with other TAPS family members there telling them about the place why wouldn't they mention the "extras" added to the place?. Like I said it's not a big secret and either the producers dropped the ball or did it to get ratings or GH didn't do too good of a job researching the place.

reply to post by sandman441


Either way, it doesn't reflect too well on TAPS or GH at all.

Originally posted by dave420
reply to post by sandman441

 

Either way, it doesn't reflect too well on TAPS or GH at all.

I agree. I used to be a pretty big fan and thought they were on the up and up but this just proves they aren't.

My GF and I watched that one... what a d-bag! He just sat there smiling nervously as they called him on it. Personally, I would've been alot meaner than Gh's were, but that's just me.

I wish they would've gone through the entire place and found EVERY contraption, then mention only a couple and see what they say. Call them out on a lie... but, again... that's just me.

Originally posted by Earthscum
My GF and I watched that one... what a d-bag! He just sat there smiling nervously as they called him on it. Personally, I would've been alot meaner than Gh's were, but that's just me.

I wish they would've gone through the entire place and found EVERY contraption, then mention only a couple and see what they say. Call them out on a lie... but, again... that's just me.

As I said before that stuff isn't a secret and if all these people are telling them to go to this place why wouldn't they mention the contraptions?. I would have laughed too just because it's so goofy that they supposedly didn't know about all this stuff (even though they did know about it).

reply to post by dave420


Remember, criminal investigation wasn't always a science like it is now. There were, in the early days, people simply performing personal investigations using silly methods that the police thought at the time were of no value to their job.

It was not until the amateur investigators started gathering enough empirical evidence to piece things together in ways that made sense that scientists started to seriously examine things like fingerprints, powder residue, and time lines.

The new science of forensics hailed from the amateur investigators' methods used in unofficial investigations for many years previous.

The problem you seem to have with Ghost Hunters is that they seem to have no science backing up what they do. Fair enough, but how can you expect there to be science before there is even much scientific interest? Why do you expect them to have educated opinions about things that no one has any educated opinion about?

I get the feeling that you have a big problem when one of the investigators muses about what orbs might be or when one of the team members tells the viewer the popular definition of a poltergeist. You are right in that they are basically just regurgitating the same anecdotal stories and popular definitions that we have all read on the internet but wouldn't you like them even less if they didn't at least know the common definitions?

We agree that the show isn't going to prove ghosts exist one way or another. At the same time, they have captured several UFOs (unidentified filmed occurrences) that beg further inquiry and investigation. Those two or three instances alone are worth all the wasted energy and time the Ghost Hunters spend running around doing their non-scientific things.

Jon

[edit on 6.5.2008 by Voxel]

Say what you want about Ghost Hunters, but for a cable channel show... it's ratings are through the roof.

"SCI FI RANKS #1 FOR WEDNESDAY NIGHT AMONG ADULTS, MEN AND WOMEN 18 49 AND 25 54

GHOST HUNTERS IS #1 CABLE PROGRAM FOR THE 9 PM HOUR ON WEDNESDAY, MAY 28

SCI FI's new episode of Ghost Hunters last night, Wednesday, May 28th at 9 pm was the #1 cable entertainment program in its time period, and was the #2 entertainment program for the entire day among adults 25-54 (1,671,000) and the #3 entertainment program among adults 18 49 (1,620,000). Fueled by Ghost Hunter's performance, SCI FI ranked #1 among entertainment cable networks in adults, men and women 18 49 and 25 54 for the 8 11 pm time period.

The episode, House of Spirits, delivered a 1.9 household rating, tying a series-high set on two previous occasions (3/5/08 and 4/9/08) and with 2,607,000 total viewers is the #3 most-watched episode of Ghost Hunters.

Among the key demographics of adults 18-49 and 25- 54, Ghost Hunters cemented its position as cable's #1 paranormal franchise, more than doubling History Channel's competing paranormal program Monsterquest audience by 126% in adults 18 49 and by 130% among adults 25-54. Additionally, SCI FI beat the CW in the 9pm hour (Ghost Hunters vs. a new episode of Farmer Wants a Wife) by 31% in adults 18-49 and 45% in adults 25-54."

LINK

I am a huge fan of GH, and last night really bothered me. It really ticks me off when people do stuff like that, especially when he was actually laughing when Jay and Grant were confronting him about their "contraptions."

reply to post by Voxel


My whole argument is as follows:

Until the phenomena are understood, investigating an individual instance of said phenomena will yield absolutely no information. They can't help the owner (apart from telling them that there is no evidence of ghosts hurting people - and they don't need to turn up with a van-load of equipment to do that - a phone call would suffice).

Saying they're somehow excused from using logic because scientific interest in this field is low is a complete dereliction of integrity.

I don't expect them to have educated opinions for the very reason you state - nothing is known about it. It is, at this time, theoretical in nature. And you can't apply the theoretical to uncontrolled environments (ie people's houses) and expect to either be able to predict anything, or even understand any "events", as nothing is known.

I expect them to afford their chosen sector as much respect as possible, which means they have to experiment before putting their "knowledge" into play. Not doing so would be like taking your car to a mechanic who doesn't know how engines work, or even how to use a wrench.

You can't skip over the "understanding what ghosts are and how they work" phase before starting to locate and deal with them. That makes no logical sense, as nothing can be derrived from it. They might as well not do it, save their money, and stay home.

reply to post by yankeerose


And Britney Spears is a popular musician. Popularity != Correct. Just because Ghost Hunters has good viewing figures doesn't magically make up for their complete lack of knowledge of ghosts and the paranormal. If anything, it just speaks badly about people's understanding of the scientific method, and what it means to learn something.

I have been a fan of the Show since day one, I am glad that they took he time to visit the place and expose the tricks.

Ghost hunters are not scientist they are just investigators like somebody already posted going by the word of people that had experienced what they consider huntings.

They are just trying to find if the experiences of the hunted people can be verified by them.

And that is enough for me to make me a fan.

Originally posted by dave420
reply to post by Voxel

 

You can't skip over the "understanding what ghosts are and how they work" phase before starting to locate and deal with them. That makes no logical sense, as nothing can be derrived from it. They might as well not do it, save their money, and stay home.

I see the problem.

You seem to think that science and the world go:
Hypothesis->Experiments->Results->Understanding->Investigation

The reality is that the discovery of knowledge goes:
Investigation->Evidence->Hypothesis->Experiment->Results->Understanding

You are proposing that paranormal investigations skip the investigation stage and somehow go right on to the hypothesis and experiment stage or, worse, the understanding stage. This is simply a misunderstanding on your part of the role investigation plays.

All they say is that they are there to find or not find evidence of paranormal activity. Thats all they do as far as I can tell. They don't pretend to trap ghosts or locate them or even deal with them like you said. They are just looking for evidence, both anecdotal and otherwise, that something is amiss. The conclusions they draw from that evidence (for the benefit of the homeowner and to entertain the viewer) are simply personal opinions and shouldn't be used as an indictment against what they really do - evidence gathering.

I respect the Ghost Hunter guys precisely because they don't know what they are dealing with and are honest enough to say it to the camera. They even admit in one episode that "cleansing the house" is really just to make the home owner feel more comfortable living there.

Jon