Multiculturalism Is Progress!

...or is it?

Firstly I want to make very clear that niether myself nor this thread is racist or prejudiced in any way. I firmly abhor racial hate and notions of supremacy so I'd kindly ask that everyone leave those feelings at the door, so to speak.

This thread is an attack on excessive Political Correctness and Government/elite agendas. It's probably pertinent to this discussion to first explain why I believe the multicultural movement is part of a greater - somewhat known, somewhat unknown - agenda.

More and more, the most unlikely people I talk to are voicing their concerns about mass immigration and overcrowding. I'm talking about people like my father - a loyal Liberal Democrat supporter, friends who I've grown up with who have traditionally been very anti-racist (like myself), and even non-white British. Ten years ago these people would have avoided all and any nationalistic tendencies, but now they'll happily vent their opposition to current levels of immigration. It's easy to see why, but the question is: with such a tide turning within Britain, why are the Government not even threatening to adjust their position in some meaningful way? Why are they still trying to convince us that the more immigration, the better? Their failure to truly address the issue is pushing people to the "right".

- Is it because the elite benefit from cheap labour?
- Is it because the "NWO" know this will help ease in a one-world-government?
- Is it because the Government want people to develop nationalist tendencies and they think that by creating an uncomfortable situation people will naturally veer that way?
...or is it because they innocently believe multiculturalism is progress?

Obviously, this can all be applied to most Western countries, and for that reason, I can't help thinking it involves a global conspiracy. I'm certain most pro-multiculturalists are full of good intention, but have they been manipulated? They help the Government enforce the notion that multiculturalism = progress and anything else = bigotry and ignorance. But is this true? Is multiculturalism actually progress? Now, I'm not promoting hideous ideas of ethnic cleansing here - I don't want to lose my black and Asian friends. However, on a non-racial level, shouldn't a country prosper most when in control of its own sovereignty and when national identity and pride are not undermined and - in all honesty - outlawed (to all intents and purposes). Political correctness means that any sense of pride in one's country attracts cries of "racist" or "ignorant".

So is multiculturalism "progress", or are we being lied to? This is the question I put to you.

I cannot offer an opinion for other countries, but in my humble opinion, 99.9% of US politicians do not have the balls to do what they know in their hearts to be right. Which is, you insist on enforcement of current laws until they are changed. Most of our politicans are ignoring and encouraging others to ignore our immigration laws by their inaction. In effect they are ignoring the most sacred of oaths. They are not protecting our Constitution. They are, in fact, ignoring it by not enforcing the law as it is written. And that's both parties. The reason they will not enforce the laws is because they have sold their soul for the almighty vote, and the chance of not being re-elected if they enforce the laws. They are all whores for the office.

I have no issue with immigration as long as it is done legally. I welcome legal immigration and get choked up when I see naturalization ceremonies and the pride in the folks who are made US citizens. It really touches my heart.

Thank you for your response Hugues de Payens. However, it seems the thread is of little interest to most. In light of the recent Why am I labelled racist for being proud of my white heritage? thread, I think people are growing entirely sick of political correctness, and it is political correctness which is really to blame for the multicultural mess. I welcome foreigners to my country, but not when the numbers are great enough to permanently alter the cultural solidarity of a nation. And culture is important. Our traditions and mythologies are what keep communities and families close. This is why it annoys me when people ask - why is heritage so important? It's more racist to deny the differences between races and cultures, and ignorant to expect people to put those differences aside for the sake of a misconceived multicultural utopia.

I think that everyone should be proud of their heritage. The problems start once "Our heritage is better then yours" or "X is better then Y because of his heritage" and similar stuff. Person should be judged upon his actions, not those of his ancestors.
I am not American, but i am sure that all the different people who live there for generations have a common set of agreed heritage and culture. But for majority of their ancestors it was a foreign land with
strange people and weird culture.
As for cultural/ethnic/racial/moral differences - they are there , of course. And often when opposing or even neutral sets of those differences meet there are tensions and even conflicts. History shows that this issue was approached from lot of directions - from atrocities of genocide to humiliation of huge culture melting pot. From this perspective multi-culture approach has its weak points too and the result will be combined culture in the distant future. But it does not mean that individual should give up what he holds dear. Just that he is free to adopt what he likes.
A down-scaled example:
Just look what happened with food - foreign dishes that you like are entering your menu but it nobody forces you to eat them or to give up your own recepies.
I also think that mutual respect is the key - if someone does not respect you and your background ,you do not have to respect his. But forcing your values on someone totally different is not respecting his, don't you think?

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
I think that everyone should be proud of their heritage. The problems start once "Our heritage is better then yours" or "X is better then Y because of his heritage" and similar stuff. Person should be judged upon his actions, not those of his ancestors.

Thank you for your post ZeroKnowledge. I fully agree with the above statement. There's absolutely no need to bring notions of superiority or inferiority into it - or even to compare different races and cultures. All are equally valuable, but it must be recognised that they are different and it must be agreed that they all have the right to remain independent and un-altered. The Multiculturalist's desperate attempt to mix all cultures together is - to me - the most racist thing possible because it basically says that all cultures should be destroyed in favour of a new "world" culture - a Frankenstein's Monster.

There is a book out titled " Mexafornia " I think I spelled it right.

I hear it is a god read. I have had a few threads on this topic and the experts do believe it will destroy the us. Well they call them selfs experts.

It seems that immigrants for the most part don't want to assimilate.

Roper

that is what really annoys me about immigration, when people come to a new country and don't make an effort to assimilate and adopt similar values... its like coming to a country and taking all the privileges (education, health, prosperity...) and giving nothing in return.

even my own relatives can't speak English properly (and they live in Australia) and it absolutely tears me up inside.... its not like i hate them for it but its just annoying that they never made the effort to a country that gave them so much.

Multiculturalism is sheer stupidity.

Immigrants should be allowed to conform to the host nation's culture, laws and customs.

The Melting Pot model ought to be used instead of either a static state which does not progress, and multiculturalism which allows the creation of micro-nations (such as birmingham/ brixton) within the country due to aggreggated groups of immigrants retaining their national identity instead of merging into wider British society.

Muticulturalism isn't a bad thing in and of itself, it promotes a better understanding of other peoples and their cultures.

What makes it bad, is when it's taken too far by ignorant do-gooders that really don't understand the concept, and begins to promote one culture over another rather than cultural diversity.

Immigration is a good thing when it is done legally. It promotes the assimilation of the best and brightest people from all nations. When it's done illegally however, you most of the time get the dregs of other societies.

The simple act of coming to another country without proper documentation shows a criminal element on their part. If they cannot even follow this one simple rule, can you honestly expect them to obey the laws and cultural norms of their new country?

Past immigrants that came to this country via Ellis Island were proud to become Americans and assimilate themselves to their new home. They learned the language, obeyed the laws, and did their best to be productive citizens. They still held on to their own ethnic heritages, but practiced them in their own homes and within their subcommunities, which was the right thing to do.

The new breed of immigrants (mostly illegals), have no desire to integrate into our society, and seek to practice their own cultural beliefs and norms above those of their host country.

They expect to be provided with bilingual teachers for their children because they've refused to learn English, they expect to receive benefits that neither they or their predecessors ever contributed to, and they show a total disregard for the laws of the land which all Americans are bound to obey. They want all the rights and benefits of being citizens without ever having to contribute. In other words: "They want their cake, and be able to eat it too!"



[edit on 6/6/08 by LLoyd45]

reply to post by LLoyd45

Well said. But isn't a little naive to think that only the best and brightest will choose to immigrate? Surely it is the best and the brightest in any given country who have the least reason to emigrate - they are able to attain the greatest, mst well-paid positions within that country. Surely we must expect that it will be the less-priveleged (financially and intellectually) who emigrate seeking better opportunities. Therefore, without extremely strict immigration policies and border control, the more liberal countries should expect to receive the takers not the givers...

...which leads me back to my original point - why, when all of this is so plain to see, do the Western country's governments do so little about it? My guess is that it is all part of a great global agenda.

reply to post by Cythraul


Nope, the best and the brightest are constrained by the capacity of their nations to offer them challenges suitable to their par.

In other words, it is always the best and brightest that emigrate from third world countries, while those incapable are not able to do so.

Proof: en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Cythraul

44soulslayer said it all. The best and the brightest who choose to legally immigrate, are not typical members of their societies. They seek greater challenges, and the freedom necessary to pursue them. They aren't looking for a "free-ride". They're looking for a new, and better way of life.

Originally posted by 44soulslayer
Nope, the best and the brightest are constrained by the capacity of their nations to offer them challenges suitable to their par.

OK point taken. But still, observation shows me that the people immigrating to my country are all average people - not the creme de la creme. Indeed, the government tells us we need to welcome these immigrants because they do the jobs we won't do (unlikely that a great foreign mind will emigrate to clean toilets). Is that because they've all immigrated illegally? Or is it (more likely) because the government have implemented no real quality control?

Multiculturalism has never proven to be beneficial. It is nothing more than touchy-feely emotional BS

Originally posted by Cythraul

Originally posted by 44soulslayer

Is that because they've all immigrated illegally? Or is it (more likely) because the government have implemented no real quality control?

Now you have it on both accounts.

Roper

reply to post by Cythraul


The problem with immigration to Britain in my opinion is threefold:

1. Too many lower class, poorly educated native british workers are refusing jobs in favour of sitting on the dole. This leads to a job shortage and wage inflation in certain sectors (remember plumbers earning £100k a year a while back?). This in turn, draws in the lowly qualified workers from other EU nations.
Solution: a) Cease welfare for those who are able to work and refuse to do so. b) Stop immigration from EU countries (which is illegal atm thanks to the Maastrict treaty)

2. Too many illegal immigrants coming to the country, who have no skills and are basically a waste of space. I reserve no respect for illegal immigrants because their actions are nothing but piracy. Plus they give immigration as a whole a bad name, which reflects badly on legal immigrants (such as myself).
Solution: Border police force. Illegal immigrants sent back to prison in their own county of origin

3. Too many asylum seekers. I know that some people say that we should accept all asylum seekers if they are in true danger etc etc, but frankly I think we need to put our own house in order before allowing house guests!
Solution: Moritorium on asylum for at least a decade while we sort out our own problems.

That was my humble opinion on immigration to the UK.

In one way, the idea of multiculturalism is, I believe, wrong. Sooner or later, different cultures in one country will merge into a new, single culture.

When people are defending multiculturalism in Europe they ONLY defend islam, when islam is a religion and not a culture, they never defend the Hindus, blacks, Chinese etc, no, only the religion of islam.

Can multiculturalism work ? well, not with this only pro islam attitude, because people are #ting on multiculturalism in my land because of what the muslims do, so its weird how multiculturalists only defend muslims when muslims are the biggest enemies of multiculturalism, they give it a bad name and in islam multiculturalism is forbidden.

reply to post by 44soulslayer

Great points. I will NEVER understand why immigrants who commit serious crimes are not instantly deported. Even for the extremely liberal pro-multiculturalists, the ridiculousness of this must be recognised. If Britain wants to extend its hand to high quality immigrants who are going to benefit the richness of this country, why should we feel any sense of remorse for those who come here and p**s on our goodwill. If you want to make a better life for yourself in Britain, feel free, but in return you live within the law and completely respect the host way of life. Our prisons are over-crowded. This seems like a simple, obvious solution to me.

I've even heard suggestions about deporting criminals AND their families. This will put the burden of good parenting firmly back onto the parents in immigrant families. They'll raise good citizens or face getting kicked out.

reply to post by Cythraul


That could be an interesting solution, however I think its important not to extend it to "victimless"crimes (such as smoking marjiuana).

It could well prove unfair to the parents who may be hardworking and honest, but had the misfortune of having a child with bad judgement.

Perhaps a two strikes rule could be used for "lesser" crimes such as smoking weed, shoplifting, vandalism etc. Do it once and youll get a normal sentence, do it once more after that and youre beyond the redemption and your entire family will be booted out.

Higher evils such as murder, rape etc would result in immediate expulsion from the country for the entire family.

This of course all depends upon whether the family in question is still on a permanent residency/ work visa. What happens if they have gained citizenship!