Nazi memorabilia at country market

reply to post by Griff


Why, did the American Indians exterminate 6 million Americans. You don't think that the American Indian still has grievances against the US? Please.

There is obviously a large vein of anti-semitism in this thread, if you people can't see the difference in what happened, and why we have to give people the CHOICE to view or not to view. That is the question. What is at stake here is the right to choose.

Originally posted by Griff
I just want it understood that I do understand why it would offend someone.

I actually own a nazi flag, armband and bayonette (sp?) that my grandfather stole from a nazi that he killed.

I had these items displayed in my room for a bit. As a memorial to my grandfather, not as a nazi sympathizer.

Until my other grandfather, whos brother died in WWII, took a fit. I took them down out of respect for him.

Edit: But, I still own them. Do they get a good price these days?

[edit on 5/27/2008 by Griff]

Exactly what I meant when I said it's not only Jews that can be offended by the material. And, yes, if they are genuine they can be very expensive.

reply to post by TheComte


Limiting someones ability to sell something that is not physically harmful to anyone,just to placate the sensabilities of the few is appeasment.I find the thought of the sale of these things disgusting.Yet i also feel that this salesman's rights to persue a living were infringed upon.
As for the vewing problem it should have been just like the television.If you don't like what you see change the channel,or in this case just walk away.

Originally posted by TheComte
reply to post by Griff

 

Why, did the American Indians exterminate 6 million Americans. You don't think that the American Indian still has grievances against the US? Please.

You are not making sense now. The manifest destiny, go west, "discover" European decended Americans slaughtered the Indigenous American Indians not the other way around. History should be remembered and not tucked away into a cellar doomed to repeat one day. no whitewashing please.

Originally posted by TheComte
reply to post by Griff

 

Why, did the American Indians exterminate 6 million Americans.

No. The Europeans exterminated 12 million of my people.

Thus, according to Ward Churchill, a professor of ethnic studies at the University of Colorado, the reduction of the North American Indian population from an estimated 12 million in 1500 to barely 237,000 in 1900 represents a "vast genocide . . . , the most sustained on record."

hnn.us...

Where's my "Israel"? Where's my millions in aide every year?

BTW, I'm far from anti-semitic. My best friend is jewish. And he agrees with me that calling it like it is is NOT anti-semitism.

reply to post by tezzajw





You reasoning and logic are flawed.

The gov't had nothing to do with this. It was between the ADL and the market manager. And your wailing about loss of rights is pure hysteria. The market manager has every right to choose what can and cannot be sold on private property.

Originally posted by tezzajw

Some facts:
Carrying grudges and predjudices forever is ridiculous.

It's not a matter of carrying a grudge. It's a matter of remembering history. It's a matter of being diligent.

Originally posted by tezzajw
Given that - it took ONE Jew to see the stuff, pick up the phone and complain to have it removed - and it was.

Excellent.

Originally posted by tezzajw
By your logic, every Japanese person should utterly reject and complain about every American icon on their soil. Why? The USA fried tens of thousands of innocent civillians with the H-Bombs, right?

And in doing so, saved millions more innocent lives.

Originally posted by tezzajw
The USA persecuted those people, equally as horrific as the Germans did to the Jews, yet do we see Japanese people complain about the USA flag still flying over the embassy or on their military bases? No!

When did the US persecute the Japanese? Did you not know the US paid reparations to the Japanese that were held in detention camps?

Originally posted by tezzajw
The attitude of SOME modern day Jews is disgusting.

You seem to have a very poor attitude about Jews, bordering on anti-semitism.


I live in the US. I equate this incident with the scenario of someone selling shackles, KKK garb, and hangman's nooses at a southern flea market. It would certainly be insensitive and an insult to the black community, who still have recollection of the days of slavery.

Again, your reasoning is flawed.

Originally posted by Griff

Originally posted by TheComte
reply to post by Griff

 

Why, did the American Indians exterminate 6 million Americans.

No. The Europeans exterminated 12 million of my people.

So why would people be offended if the Native Americans want to sell arrowheads? It was them who were persecuted. I don't see how it's the same. Now, if someone went to a reservation and pulled out a bunch of Custer hats to sell, do you think that would go over well? (That may be a bad example since Custer was a victory for the Natives, but do you see what I am getting at?).

I agree that the Natives were slaughtered. But it was mainly because they didn't want to give up the land, not that they should have. But, land was the goal, Manifest Destiny, wrong as it was. The Nazis wanted the European Jews gone as a race, the ultimate goal wasn't the acquisition of wealth or property.

Plus, the Natives still have their grievances. Just look at what's happening in Canada with the land occupations, blocking highways, demanding their land back. Do you not think they have justification? Or will you tell them as well, it was a long time ago, get over it?

Perhaps these Jews like being the victim? maybe they like the attention, because every time I see something like this I cant help but think to myself ya know I wasn't there this didn't happen to me I'm living and breathing today, It wasn't my war, Nor was it my problem, Did it suck for them? yeah it sucked for THEM... not US

They are at least most of them dead or almost there...

OUR job isn't to appease them or fear offending them, Our ONLY job is to make sure it never happens again, That's IT, Now if THEY want to erase this event from history and make us forget it, It's going to be kind of difficult for US to not allow it to happen again seeing as everything they erase our future children will never know...

So I guess as stated before they like the attention and like being murdered by the millions.

TheComte: You said the holocaust was the worst atrocity ever. It has been pointed out that it was not unique and that the American Indians lost more lives, not that that makes it any more or less worse.

My 2cents continues to be to keep all of that stuff out in the open and discuss it. If you don't know your history you are doomed to repeat it.

Originally posted by stikkinikki
TheComte: You said the holocaust was the worst atrocity ever. It has been pointed out that it was not unique and that the American Indians lost more lives, not that that makes it any more or less worse.

My 2cents continues to be to keep all of that stuff out in the open and discuss it. If you don't know your history you are doomed to repeat it.

I never said it was the worst atrocity ever. If you can provide me with the quote where I said that then I will apologize. I said it was different for reasons stated.

Originally posted by jsobecky
I live in the US. I equate this incident with the scenario of someone selling shackles, KKK garb, and hangman's nooses at a southern flea market. It would certainly be insensitive and an insult to the black community, who still have recollection of the days of slavery.

This is an excellent analogy. Would black people be offended if someone started selling James Earl Ray action figures in a public market? I think they would. According to some of the opinions here, they would be wrong in doing so.

[edit on 27-5-2008 by TheComte]

How about a better analogy?

What would you people say if I got offended by the American flag since it was the european americans who descimated my people and that is where the flag comes from.

Can I demand Wal-Mart to stop selling flags because I get offended?

Or would you people tell me to screw off?

Think about it.

And it's the same. This man was selling a nazi flag.

Not a miniture replica of a gas chamber as you people want to equate it to.

Oh, and BTW. I notice that the same people who b***h and moan about having to appease the "Muslims" when they get offended are the same people who are telling us we need to appease the jews when they get offended.

Just because the jews had a holocaust?

I wonder how many muslims died in the inquisitions throughout history?

reply to post by Griff


I would say you have a right to demand it. But Walmart probably wouldn't listen because it is their store and they have the right to sell them inside their store. Also, you have the option to not shop there if what they sell offends you.

Now if you were at your local flea market, and someone was selling American Flags that were offensive to you as a Native American, I would say you have every right to ask the owner of the flea market to not allow the sale of the flags. Of course, the decision would be up to the owner.

Do you see?

I think I know what's going on here. Some of you are very resentful of the amount of influence the Jewish community has. Because the owner of this particular flea market acted on the complaints, you are all up in arms over it.



[edit on 27-5-2008 by TheComte]

Originally posted by TheComte
Some of you are very resentful of the amount of influence the Jewish community has.

I thought it was anti-semitic to point out the amount of influence the jewish community has?

But, I can see where you are comming from. No, I have no resentment. I guess we'll just have to disagree.

Ok, how about this?

Why is it 100% legal to sell Communist relics, but not Nazi relics? When freedom is governed, it's no longer freedom.

I mean honestly, if this flag upset quite a few Jewish patrons, I could understand if they asked him to take it down. (I would out of respect.) But when one Jew gets offended, it gets forcibly removed?

I don't see freedom here. The offended could have just looked the other way, by no means was anyone forcing him to view the flag.

Oh well, one step closer to losing any and all freedom (the little we had) I suppose.

Peace,
FK

Hmmm. Actually, Native Americans *have* protested against the use of terms like the "redskins" and "Indians" for sports teams, and also against the co-opting of Native American artifacts by non-Native Americans. They have also resisted negative stereotypes, such as " the drunken Indian" hankering after cheap trinkets from "the great white father." In addition, they have fought long and furiously against skewed historical accounts that have shown them as always the aggressors raiding white settlements while ignoring the fact that whites just as often raided Native American settlements.

It's interesting here that no one has mentioned slavery and African Americans when it comes to large scale extermination and holocausts.

That being said, I think its important to point out that, while the Nazi party may no longer exist, Nazi sentiments about Jews still do. I'm not Jewish so I often get "treated" to slimy anti-semitic remarks by other non-Jews, because they assume that I will agree with them. These folks pull out all the stops when it comes to stereotypes, claiming, for example, that all Jews have big noses, are cheap, and know how to make money. As *if* every individual of a particular group could be so easily slotted into such narrow categories. And then there was the fallout of Mel Gibson's Passion of the Christ," resulting in the ridiculous accusation that the "Jews killed Christ," which is neither biblically nor historically true.

Should the items have been taken off the market? Probably not. But to say that Nazi-ism is said and done with is preposterous. Its spirit lives on.

Interesting, yet mildly hysterical thread.

Apropos of absolutely nothing, this past month, I sold an autographed print of an original oil painting by Hans Bauer, Hitler's personal pilot. The proceeds from the sale went to a local scholarship program. I suppos that every bad turn has a good side, and no good deed goes unpunished?

The English slaughtered 13 million in India, the worst Atrocity would be Stalin's forced starvation programme upwards of 30 million dead. Pol Pot would be well within his rights to lay claim to some pretty serious genocide.

The term Holocaust was created to describe the systematic slaughter of Jews, yet when you consider that 11`-15 million people were put to death in the concentration camps (many more in total) then the Jews are but a fraction of the total - and the rest are just forgotten and pushed aside. The are many who actually believe that only 6 million Jews were killed - it is a disgrace these people can have been obliterated and are totally ignored by the well organised, millitant, campaigning of the Jewish diaspora, Lobby and Israel.

This is censorship - there is no other word for it - and the issue here is whether the Israel Lobby has to much influence and power - of this there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever. They are highly dangerous to anyone who dissents.

I have visited the sites if many concentration camps, I have witnessed the these places first hand - I am profoundly sickened by the activities of the Nazis, however I do not believe that this gives their victims to re-enact their crimes on the Palestinians (which they are doing in the forced Ghettos ) nor do I believe that the rest of us should have our most cherished values trampled upon to elevate one section of society above another.

Laws MUST ALWAYS be universal - if anything offends anyone then it should be removed - everything - close the markets down - or not.

Simple.

you do know more russian died at the hands of the nazi`s than all other groups combined? and that includes , UK , USA , Canadian etc etc - the figure for russian deaths is over 25 million

and yet where is the `rememberance` for that?

german teenagers are sick of having the holocaust rammed downed there throats constantly - they want to learn other aspects of WW2 and the moment they try they are branded anti-semitic - look at a certain person name calling a few posts above to see that exactly - have an opposing view point and the name calling starts which is truely childish and pathetic.

no one here is denying what happened 63 years ago - what is sad is the nanny-police state which jumps down on people when 1 person makes a complaint , should i be arrested for wanting to bring out in the public my M1940 heer helmet then?

no , and what is happening is the world is slowly becoming sanitized to the events of ww2 - constant ramming down our throats and there is a generation of ` oh yes , so sorry , now wheres mtv`.