Who is to blame for Britain's knife-crime epidemic?

Well alot of this knife crime seems to be gang realted mainly with the newly arrived immigrants from lawless countries like Somalia Mozambique Iraq and the lower class of the British indigenious population. Gun crime seems to mainly revolve around the illegal drug industry

reply to post by budski


That's true, but if it's "always been the case", then why is it getting worse?

The fact is that over-population is going to make the failings of society all the more apparent, and the scary thing is i don't think we'll have the capabilities to do something about it, once the problem is that bad.

"Blame Canada!"



Ha, couldn't resist! Apologies to South Park

reply to post by Anti-Tyrant


It's not getting worse, that's the whole point - if you look at knife crime as a percentage or on a per capita basis, you'll see that it has decreased.

This whole "epidemic" is media driven, and is encouraged by the government in order to make us focus on something other than the rules and regulations our law enforcement agencies have to work under, and to take away the racial stigma attached to "stop and search".

reply to post by budski


Like you say it is media driven...Still a big problem though especcialy within the major cities. I live in Bristol and there have been 7 stabbings in 7 days. Don't know how you deal with it really...more Police in the trouble areas? tougher sentences? I don't know but it is a major problem and i think bigger than it has ever been in the UK even if the media is sensationalising it.

Originally posted by budski
reply to post by Anti-Tyrant

 

It's not getting worse, that's the whole point - if you look at knife crime as a percentage or on a per capita basis, you'll see that it has decreased.

I'm not looking at it from a percentage or on a per capita basis, i'm looking at the simple numbers.

Originally posted by budski
reply to post by Anti-Tyrant

 

As populations get bigger, crime becomes more common, simply because there are more people.

So, does that mean that the problem isn't getting worse?

You can say the media is driving this, and to a point i agree with you - they have always over-hyped everything if it even looks like it's going to be a serious problem.

I think they're just reacting too early, that's all.

That's a simple answer.

If you Brits let people carry guns, I can guarantee in knife related deaths...

I am British and am 20. I am at university now but went to school with the type of people you are talking about.

I think selling handguns to anyone is a stupid idea. If teenagers could get hold of guns easily then everyone would need one. There is a massive binge drinking culture here and I think pissed up teenagers with guns is not a good idea. I have been in fights and had to go to hospital a few times because of street violence but I think I would probably be dead if people had guns.

For this violence to stop it has to stop being glorified on TV and music videos. It sounds silly but to reduce violent crime in cities, the cities need to look nicer. Deep seeded urban decay affects people just as open fields and beautiful scenery affects people. It sounds rediculous but its true. Put positive and uplifting things in the environment and it will reduce crime. Simple things like trees and fountains, cleaning up ugly graffiti etc.

I don't like English people very much to be honest. There are lots of really great English people but your average British police officers or typical working class boozers are complete scum and have no idea about the world they live in. To stop this nonsense culture of violence these people need a rude awakening. In many ways a lot of these people need a war to fight. If hypothetically young people could go on a tour of the world and go to some really terrible places and see some wonderful ones then there would be a huge change. This is impossible sadly but hey it would definately work. Also the British climate is depressing and I don't think that helps with the whole alcohol and violences cultures.

reply to post by Anti-Tyrant


I think you may be missing the point here, so here's some figures, if you'd care to read them:
news.bbc.co.uk...

As can be seen, violent crime has dropped in the last decade or so, from a peak in 1992.

You'll need to plough through a lot to get the tables and figures and to be able to understand the crime recording process.

What has also changed are peoples perceptions of violent crime which can be seen here
This change of perception is media driven and is the reason for the headlines we see.

reply to post by budski


Mate, i'm not missing the point, you're ignoring mine for some reason.

I don't doubt that the media has distorted the facts, and yet you seem content to put media-related sources my way as if i've denied that they do.

What you need to remember, of course - is the various implications of modern day's police forces ability to detect crime.

Those figures are not to be taken as fact, even if backed up by official sources.

All i'm saying is that over-population is going to cause an increase in crime, and will only continue to get worse and worse.

Perhaps this is the Government's way of figuring out how to deal with it.




[edit on 27-5-2008 by Anti-Tyrant]

reply to post by Anti-Tyrant


I'm not ignoring your point - it's just that it makes no sense except a VERY basic level.

You are saying that crime increases as population increases, which is like saying as population increases water consumption increases - it's too simplistic.

The fact is that if crime stays at the same per capita rate, then you are no more likely to be a victim of crime, except by random chance, and even random chance decreases with more people..

reply to post by budski


Actually, i think you've neglected to take a look at the true impact of over-population.

Not only will crime increase in a "simplistic" sense, but the measures of which we can take to deal with those crimes will be that much harder to enforce.

Prison over-crowding is already an issue i'm sure you're aware of.

This, i believe, will lead to an increase in crime percentages, because we will be unable to deal with criminals in the way we have been.

We may be forced to take drastic measures.

[edit on 27-5-2008 by Anti-Tyrant]

Believe it or not, it is infact nessecary to understand the simple things before you move on to a more detailed analysis.

Unless, you have something to counter my argument with?

If the reports on the BBC are anything to go by, violent crime in the UK is down, but knife crime is up, and knife crime on those between the ages of 15-20 is severely up. Why?

I think there are many factors involved, but culture is the biggest one. In the US, owning a gun is legal, but it's also legal in Canada, so why is the gun crime rate in the US exponentially larger than in Canada? That has to be down to the different cultures, and as many have already said, the socio-economic conditions and disenfranchisement of many in the US drives crime. I'll even quote Yoda on this one! "Jealously leads to hate, hate leads anger, anger leads to suffering."

Our culture is geared towards proving to be a success, and success is now defined by what you have. The bigger the house, the car, the more expensive the clothes and jewelry, the most successful you're deemed to be. As a human race, we all desire to be successful, but our economy is set up so that there are those (usually from low demographic and ethnic groups) who will not, and never will have the same chances as others. We haven't taken away their desire to be successful, and nor can we, be we have taken away their ability to be successful through underfunding local facilities and education, poor housing, poor facilities etc, and this causes crime.

A bigger problem for me is, what defines success? The Paris Hiltons, Britney Spears etc of this world are considered successful because they have the houses and the cars, so as a culture now, it seems to be considered OK that filming yourself having sex, flashing your va-jay-jay, taking drugs etc is OK, if it makes you successful. 50 Cent has a movie and album out called "Get Rich Or Die Tryin'". It's not called Get Happy or Die Tryin', it's rich. We circumvented happiness, or the idea of what defines happiness, as wealth. And these people are the role models for our youth. Our youth is now concerned with being wealthy, and doing whatever it takes to be wealthy, and for many the quickest and easiest way is crime. MTV/ VH1 etc, no longer play music videos anymore, it's Cribs, or Pimp My Ride, our kids are constantly bombarded with images of people with 10 bedroom mansions, swimming pools, personal tennis and basketball courts, cars with in built TVs, DVDs, custom this, custom that. When they do play a music video, the music video has the performer driving these cars and living in these mansions, surrounded by bikinied women, wearing fur coats and gold chains. Wealth is being smacked in their faces 24/7, whilst they sit in their 1 bedroom studio or run down house. It's being rubbed in their faces how they are not successful because they do not have these things, and that causes resentment.

As a culture now , our concern and definition of success is our wealth, and not our happiness. We need to re-assess that. We need to empower people to help them find happiness, happiness that is not defined by how much money they have, but defined by allowing them to do the things they want to do, despite their social-economic background. Then and only then we will tackle crime. Banning anything else is a futile attempt to treat the symptom, and not the casue.

P.S: Don't confuse "Simplistic" with "Utter Importance".

reply to post by Anti-Tyrant


Your argument is opinion only - and flawed opinion at that.

I have produced the figures regarding crime and peoples perceptions of crime.

Can you provide any FACTUAL evidence to refute them?

reply to post by budski


Those figures are based on detected cases.

They are not Facts.

I also find it amusing how you would ask of me to provide evidence of something that hasn't even happened yet.

But if you want to see how i've come to my conclusion, then all you have to do is look around you and join the dots.

reply to post by Anti-Tyrant


No, those figures are on reported crime and are factually correct.

I take your answer to mean that you cannot refute them, that being the case and as you seem to want to argue this in a metaphysical sense rather than a factual one, I'm done with you.