Divine Intervention

I'm here to ask this question thats been bugging me. I dont know if I will actually get an answer but I am looking forward to what replies I will get from the religious members

Let me come up with a scenario

A man let's say in his mid 20's falls from a very tall building and miraculously survives when he very well should have died...after the event people say god was guiding him and saved him

Now another scenario

Let's say there is a shooting, the shooters are shooting at someone. They miss their intended target but a stray bullet hits and kills a little 5 year old girl

why did god not save the girl???

People like to say when someone dies that it was their time to go, or that it is all just a part of gods plan....really??? was it that girls time to go at 5 years old??? was it gods plan to bring this girl into the world, and before she even had a chance to actually live her life have her die???

All I could simply add is that those who survive ‘miraculously’ have unfinished business here on ‘Earth’. Their being alive is ‘proof’ enough that something, someone ‘divine’ has intervened on their behalf. Who are we to say in human terms that those who die prematurely are no better off dead than alive in the afterlife doing work from beyond the grave that that only ‘G-d’ would know? It boils down to a soul’s purpose. For those on the other side of the spectrum, I don’t believe in random events.

Originally posted by pikypiky
All I could simply add is that those who survive ‘miraculously’ have unfinished business here on ‘Earth’. Their being alive is ‘proof’ enough that something, someone ‘divine’ has intervened on their behalf. Who are we to say in human terms that those who die prematurely are no better off dead than alive in the afterlife doing work from beyond the grave that that only ‘G-d’ would know? It boils down to a soul’s purpose. For those on the other side of the spectrum, I don’t believe in random events.

what could that unfinished business be??? after the incident wouldnt the person just live on with a normal life and then just die?

How is their being alive proof of someone divine intervening??? it may be proof of luck

Originally posted by AlexG141989

what could that unfinished business be??? after the incident wouldnt the person just live on with a normal life and then just die?

Beats me, I have no idea. If I’d had all the answers in the world, then I’d be ‘G-d’. But really, that unfinished business depends on the persons ‘saved’ and how they choose to lead life, normal or not and, yeah in the end die (physically). Damn, if I had a second chance in life, I'd be having all the fun in the world and sharing that enjoyment with almost everyone who believes in 'divinity'.

How is their being alive proof of someone divine intervening??? it may be proof of luck

Well, once again, there is no proof, which entirely resides on the person for whom that ‘intervention’ was intended. And the stories of these events are shared and believers are given hope that life continues without a physical form. There is no luck or co-incidence. I’m sure ‘purpose’ would be a better choice of word. If I don’t make sense, too bad, I tried.

from my studyies, i would guess that divine intervention is the exception, not the norm.

because

1 - we dont deserve special treatment (romans 6:23)

2 - GOD promises numerous times that evil will be done away with in the future so intervention is not really needed now (rev 21:3,4, Isaiah 65:17, john 5;28,29)

3 - Intervention is usually used to either show what GOD will do in the future (jesus ressurecting lazarus) Santify GOD´s name (3 hebrew youth thrown in the babylonian furnace) or show what he will do to the wicked (the fall of sodom and gomorrah)

consider this....

god did not prevent the death of many prophets (hebrews 11:37)


why do bad things happen to one but not to another?

eccl 9:[11] I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.

In her past life, as bad as this sounds that little girl could have been a really bad person...i dunno.....

i know one thing and that is everything happens for a reason.

reply to post by AlexG141989


They have to believe God did it for a reason. To believe anything else would mean God doesn't exist, or at least doesn't want to help anyone on earth.

Originally posted by Herbal Oli
In her past life, as bad as this sounds that little girl could have been a really bad person...i dunno.....

i know one thing and that is everything happens for a reason.

is that really what you think???

Nice use of the Scriptures Miriam. To largely build on the thought expressed in Miriam's post of Ecclesiastes that points to "life" more or less happening to us all I might also reflect on Matthew 5:45 where the idea is conveyed that the suns rises and the rain falls on the righteous and unrighteous.
Also 1 John 5:19 where it is stated that 'the whole world is under the control of the evil one'(NIV) hence as it is stated at 2 Peter 3:13 - "But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness."(NIV) Her point 2 and 3 are very good. Ultimately Christ preached the message of God's Kingdom (i.e. the new Heaven and new Earth) in which God will once and for all intervene and do away with all things including evil, sickness and even death. And any intervention he has does leading up to it is exactly as Miriam said, proof it can be done and a sign it will be done as well for the purpose of strengthening hope and faith.
Also I feel it should be noted that of the countless lives that have come and gone on this Earth, God has not taken many of them nor delights in it (2 Peter 3:9) and also made evident in the fact that even Jesus cried when Lazarus died. At times he has administered judgment in the form of death or destruction, but for the most part he actually stands back as though we are all modern day Jobs where God did not inflict punishment upon him but allowed Satan to in order to prove Satan wrong in that Job (or now we) could remain faithful despite trials and tribulations (and consequently greatly blessed Job, and it would be logical to think Job will be one who will see the Kingdom when it arrives, though obviously the judging is not up to us). The only other reference to God actually "bringing people to him" is that made in the closing verses of chapter 4 of 1 Thessalonians where those appointed to rule with Christ who are still living will be "raptured" up to heaven right after those who were appointed to rule with him but have already fallen asleep in death are resurrected to heaven as the time draws near for God's Kingdom. God's plan is his Kingdom, and "miracles" of people surviving in atypical situations doesn't seem to do a lot in terms of making mankind aware of his plan or in proving his power to restore humanity and do away with death. The Holy Scriptures are meant to be plenty sufficient in spelling out His plan and assisting in drawing close to him, and they document the unmistakable miracles he performed (or performed through others), not the anomaly of someone surviving a strange fall that is deemed miraculous for lack of a better word. One huge error with that thinking is it leaves a whole other spectrum (those who do die tragically, young, etc.) unexplained and unjustified.
I think the ideaology of God intervening in relatively small and contained situations like saving one person's life (and I hope I don't offend anyone) is potentially a number of things. It is simple and ear pleasing to say God stepped in. Also I think it is greatly due to a desire of many to see God's existance and/or power manifest in or close to their lives. It is half baked and relativelynarrow minded. I say half baked because of the exact question you pose in this thread Alex. Most things in life have pros and cons or are a double edged sword, this proves to be no exception. On the one hand it's a fantastic idea, give's God glory and us understanding, maybe even strength, faith, purpose, etc. It can have a lot of benefit. But then you have this whole other aspect that is unaccounted for that really can be hurtful and confusing.
All of that said, we should always give glory to God for life & blessings as His creations make it all possible and focus always on his promised Kingdom just as Jesus instructed in Mathew 6:33.
I hope this was coherent and non offensive while at the same time applicable and helpful

well i dont know, could it be possible?

think George Bush is evil, he does of old age, he's not getting punished for his war crimes, will his re-incarnate be punished? maybe...what if its in the form of a little girl...i dunno.. i need sleep

Originally posted by AlexG141989
why did god not save the girl???

The 5 year old girl dies. As a result it gets national attention. Stricter gun laws are enacted to help prevent criminals from getting guns, thus dropping the number of deaths from resulting.

On a local scale, the neighborhood pulls together in their time of grief. People get to know one another, and decide to clean up their neighborhood. They gather evidence to shut down the illegal brothel. They pester the local DA and police department until the crackhouse is shut down. They pester gang members in large groups and drive them from the neighborhood. They set up a neighborhood watch and manage to prevent another shooting, a raping, and several break ins.

In just a few years, the neighborhood has gone from being a scary place to be to being a place where children can safely play outside, and people treat each other with respect. All due to the death of that little girl being the turning point.

To understand why God lets an event occur, you must also look at the effect that event has on everything else, not just that particular event.

Originally posted by tebyen
The 5 year old girl dies. As a result it gets national attention. Stricter gun laws are enacted to help prevent criminals from getting guns, thus dropping the number of deaths from resulting.

ok, that might explain one girls death, but it has a few holes.

- what about all the deaths that happen?

- if god is being selective for the greater good, why is the world getting worse?

Originally posted by Herbal Oli
well i dont know, could it be possible?

think George Bush is evil, he does of old age, he's not getting punished for his war crimes, will his re-incarnate be punished? maybe...what if its in the form of a little girl...i dunno.. i need sleep

wow lol, i mean no offence to you but this is so ridiculous.....i mean, because god is supposedly omnipotent...he knows all, past, present and future...he knows what you will do before you do it, am i right??? so if he knew that somebody is going to be a sinner why make the person in the first place....its like....its ridiculous lol

Originally posted by tebyen

Originally posted by AlexG141989
why did god not save the girl???

The 5 year old girl dies. As a result it gets national attention. Stricter gun laws are enacted to help prevent criminals from getting guns, thus dropping the number of deaths from resulting.

On a local scale, the neighborhood pulls together in their time of grief. People get to know one another, and decide to clean up their neighborhood. They gather evidence to shut down the illegal brothel. They pester the local DA and police department until the crackhouse is shut down. They pester gang members in large groups and drive them from the neighborhood. They set up a neighborhood watch and manage to prevent another shooting, a raping, and several break ins.

In just a few years, the neighborhood has gone from being a scary place to be to being a place where children can safely play outside, and people treat each other with respect. All due to the death of that little girl being the turning point.

To understand why God lets an event occur, you must also look at the effect that event has on everything else, not just that particular event.

death rates don't drop....I chose the little girl scenario because it happens all of the time...it still happens....and for the record these cases dont get "national attention" not long ago i saw on the news a case of a little 5 year old hispanic girl named Erica. Erica was in her parent's car and was shot in the head by a stray bullet....she died.....that was the only time i saw the case on the news.....not too long later i saw another similar case with a little girl getting shot the same way.....

its annoying when overly religious people are faced with questions that make their god seem faulty....they always find some ridiculous way to make their belief system seem right....

instead of figuring out why this "god" does things that have effects on society, why dont you go out and actually do something that will actually make a change....praying will only get your knees dirty, and dirty knees dont help anybody

[edit on 23-5-2008 by AlexG141989]

Sorry about this but this post should be in BTS - not here! Interesting ppoints though.

i thought this was the religious section am i right???? if so why does this belong in bts???

Originally posted by AlexG141989

instead of figuring out why this "god" does things that have effects on society, why dont you go out and actually do something that will actually make a change....praying will only get your knees dirty, and dirty knees dont help anybody

You are correct. Each person needs to stop praying for requests that seem to go unheeded and take action right now by behaving and helping each other to figure out how to clean up the mess we all created; thereby in this example, the stray bullet need not target the unintended victim – an innocent girl.

Perhaps, we all could agree to stop manufacturing arms and pass a law against all types of weapons worldwide (including nuclear). But I doubt the behavior of some of the most stubborn gun advocates would allow for such drastic change. If only they would change altogether, this in and of itself is intervention.

Yes, ‘G-d’ is supposed to be omnipotent and omnipresent. However, ‘saving’ everyone doesn’t make sense because we ourselves fail to measure up to the perfection of attaining peace. We are at war with ourselves and our surroundings – animals, plants, weather, etc. Why we continue to hurt each other is beyond me.

It appears that some sort of balance is achieved via this re-incarnation, a term used to define areas for improvement; hence the stray bullet theory cannot be avoided due to some unresolved karma from the past. We ought to learn by now that bullets and guns together kill via our own hands. It’s time to be more responsible for our own actions.

thats IF there is a god. If their is no god then for some reason it happens.

Originally posted by AlexG141989

why did god not save the girl???

People like to say when someone dies that it was their time to go, or that it is all just a part of gods plan....really??? was it that girls time to go at 5 years old??? was it gods plan to bring this girl into the world, and before she even had a chance to actually live her life have her die???

Hello

from a Christian perspective, well my own anyhow, the scenarios above are irrelevant, God has his will but as humans we try to justify it.

what i can say to put my human two pence worth is this

the man falling from a building may have petitioned God, he may have repented of his sins and that impending death was what was needed to turn his heart towards God.

the little Girl could have had such a pure heart that god has removed her from the sin and hate of this world, alternatively she could have such a horrid and torrid life. Her next waking thought would be with the resurrected and Jesus.

frankly as a Christian it is a blessing either way.

the problem is that we attach our selfish feelings to those we lose when as Christians we should rejoice that the Lord has taken them. Of course we miss them however.

Oh by the way the man falling is a witness to Gods miracles still working and goes on to tell his testimony to many others, planting tiny seeds for the Lord

all the best

david







[edit on 24/5/2008 by drevill]

I for one, believe God loves Puff Daddy and Kanye West more than all the people recently killed in China, and all the sufferers and refugees from Katrina.

They always make a point to say "thank you God" for God's decisionto remove the free will of the voters for their Grammy award, and force them to vote for Puff or Kanye.

And if the HAARP - caused earthquakes and hurricanes are "Acts of God"..

then I think it's fair to conclude that God loves P Diddy and Kanye MORE than the people who are victims to the HAARP caused disasters.


this is how far you can bring the original poster's argument.

it's such a ridiculous fallacy...


-