Jesus Christ, Son of Mary, The evidence?

The Son of God figures (Krishna, Horus, Mithra � read this thread>>> www.abovetopsecret.com... ) are as old as known history of religions.
For last two millennia Jesus was in the central point of the whole bunch of so called Christian religions. The only difference of our civilization and development of Cartesian style of science is necessity of evidence; we have to have proof to believe. As several attempts like famous trick with Turin Shroud, or Jesus brother legend, fails � new attempt to take believers back is bloody documentary stylized hoax (yes, is saw few excerpts of that film) �The Passion of Christ. This time it works little better; we all believe in what we see (even on the cinema screen).

But seriously apart of all known tricks what historical evidence we have for existence of the Jesus Christ, son of Mary as a person not only symbol?

Krishna, Horus, Mithra, Christ. Most legends have a basis in fact. The pixies for example are believe to originate with a pre-pictish race who lived in Scotland in half-sunken houses (similar to Skara Brae). Hence the belief that they lived 'under the ground'.

So - what we have to ask about this subject is 'Who is the origin of the 'son/sun of God'. Who is the archetype ? I believe there has to be an archetype - an 'original' person on whom the stories of Krishna, Horus, Mithra, Christ and others were based.

Christ existed. As did Krishna, Horus and Mithra. But not as the separate people they are believed to be. They are just new names for the original son/sun of God.

[Edited on 28-2-2004 by Pisky]

I think it likely that Christ was a real person.
Although the story of his life and ressurection may be symbolic it is probable that there was a basis in fact.

www.icr.org...

As you can see from the link, a Jewish historian wrote about him and recently there were claims that his brother's (James) ossary had been found.

I have to admit that I wholeheartedly disagree with the author's statement that "The Christian faith is a reasonable faith, well grounded in the facts of history" though.

I think he must have lived under a rock.

www.restoredcog.org...

It would seem that the Romans documented his existence too.

[Edited on 28-2-2004 by Leveller]

Zoroastrism's founder was also born of virgin birth, preached a monotheistic doctrine ( First of its kind )......

One of the beautiful legends in Zoroastrism predicts the new coming of Zoroaster. It tells us that at the End of Time Zoroaster will come again to conquer finally the dark forces, personified by Angra Mainyu, and to establish the Kingdom of Light of Ahura Mazda forever.

www.secondcomingmission.com...

Deep

If your daughter or some girl got pregnant, had a baby, and then claimed she was a virgin,would you think that she gave birth to a someone worth worship or does that just make the mother a liar.
(perhaps the mother of all liars)...now thats funny

Considering how the controllers conspire to hide knowledge that they do not want people to know, I have every faith that there is evidence of christ and that it is hidden from the masses.

If they found the ossary it would point to Jesus existence and to his actually being well known back then.
But the ossary brings up questions itself. It is known that Mary had four other children apart from Jesus, so she was hardly a virgin was she?
We are then led onto the question of Jesus' heritage. The Church tells us that he is of the line of David. But in reality it was Joseph who was of that line. How would Jesus be David's ancestor if Joseph was not his father?

It's a total contradiction.

Originally posted by Leveller
If they found the ossary it would point to Jesus existence and to his actually being well known back then.
But the ossary brings up questions itself. It is known that Mary had four other children apart from Jesus, so she was hardly a virgin was she?
We are then led onto the question of Jesus' heritage. The Church tells us that he is of the line of David. But in reality it was Joseph who was of that line. How would Jesus be David's ancestor if Joseph was not his father?

It's a total contradiction.

Wow good point. But it's been shown that it's the woman that passes on the heritage line not the man. We all have a copy of our mother DNA in the middle of every cell in our body. It's called the mitochondria. That's one reason why I can't believe in the story of Adam as most people do believe it. But I do agree that it is based in fact and has a lot of imagery.

Zoroaster

Mary and Joseph belonged to the Essence group that spoke Aramaic as their "First" language. They also learned Hebrew, the language of their Religion.

Gregg Bradenteaches about their teachings derived from the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Originally posted by Kronos
But seriously apart of all known tricks what historical evidence we have for existence of the Jesus Christ, son of Mary as a person not only symbol?

None, actually.

Other than the gospels (written 40-100 years after his death) there are no eyewitness accounts.

The sources cited (Tacitus) are not first-hand but "A friend told me that some folks believe in this person named Jesus." These non-Biblical sources were written 60-200 years after the crucifixion.

There is no record (and no graveyard) of the "slaughter of the innocents" (where all male babies were supposedly killed by Herod)... no Jewish/Greek/Roman record (they might cover up one source but not multiple ones.)

There's no records of Roman legions being sent to Israel to control crowds, none of riots during Passover, no reports on the execution of this person. There's no record of an earthquake and an eclipse that was supposed to have taken place during the crucifixion... and if you look at the eclipse data, there's not a good one taking place over the area (total eclipse) at the stated time of Jesus' death.

No Jewish records of damage to the temple (veil being rent, etc) during that time.

Noted historians who lived in and around Bethlehem/Judea/Israel/Jerusalem at the time of Jesus' life did NOT record any such figure or any of the miracles and events recorded in the Bible:

www.sullivan-county.com...

You can check the records for yourself. The above link lists them pretty exhaustively, and you can go check ancient translations and so forth... what you will find is consistant with the words on that website.

After much searching on the web, I found this site, the rationalists manual, to be very conclusive on the bible.

www.infidels.org...

Originally posted by Byrd
Other than the gospels (written 40-100 years after his death) there are no eyewitness accounts.

The Roman historian Josephus mentioned Christ several times while relating noteworthy civic events, including the execution of one named "James, the brother of Jesus who was called the Christ/Messiah" referring evidently to Jesus' brother James, leader of the early church and author of the New Testament book bearing his name.

So although Josephus may not have personally known Jesus he was well acquainted with knowledge of his brother.

Originally posted by Leveller
It is known that Mary had four other children apart from Jesus, so she was hardly a virgin was she?

She only had one child, Jesus. She is refered to as "Mother" symbolically in the Bible as she is the Mother Of Heaven, a title given to her by Jesus himself.

That's an old Catholic chestnut. The Bible gives plenty of evidence that Jesus had at least two brothers - James and Jude.
Logically as well, Mary would have only been in her late teens or early twenties when Jesus was born. It would have been natural for her to bear more children.

It doesn't say anywhere in the Bible that God made Mary sterile after Jesus was born.

www.ctlibrary.com...

www.bible.org.nz...

www.straightdope.com...

www.biblequestions.org...

Originally posted by Leveller

Originally posted by Byrd
Other than the gospels (written 40-100 years after his death) there are no eyewitness accounts.

The Roman historian Josephus mentioned Christ several times while relating noteworthy civic events, including the execution of one named "James, the brother of Jesus who was called the Christ/Messiah" referring evidently to Jesus' brother James, leader of the early church and author of the New Testament book bearing his name.

So although Josephus may not have personally known Jesus he was well acquainted with knowledge of his brother.

What if Josephus was not an historian, but one who was telling a story?

Well, I searched for the origins of the christian faith, and this is a site I found. It is quite interesting, but also lenghty:
THE ESSENE-CHRISTIAN FAITH...THE UNTOLD STORY OF CHRISTIAN ORIGINS
www.geocities.com...

Originally posted by DaTruth

Originally posted by Leveller
If they found the ossary it would point to Jesus existence and to his actually being well known back then.
But the ossary brings up questions itself. It is known that Mary had four other children apart from Jesus, so she was hardly a virgin was she?
We are then led onto the question of Jesus' heritage. The Church tells us that he is of the line of David. But in reality it was Joseph who was of that line. How would Jesus be David's ancestor if Joseph was not his father?

It's a total contradiction.

read this my friend, www.fact-index.com...
mary wasnt a virgin,maybe b4 jesus birth,but after she wasnt. if jesus was from the line of david, THEN WHAT ELSE WOULD HAPPEN, JOSEPH HAD SEX WITH MARY to carry on the line of david, and prophecy " the messiah shall come from the line of david" his bloodline. i figure the reason why thay still call her a virgin is because of the paganistic catholics back in the day putting zoroatism(sp?) crap in chrisitiany

this is a wee bit off topic, but speaking of jesus......

i tried on a crown of thorns today...it hurt. i took a pic, should be up here around this weekend

Byrd, you are great...., always....

However in this>> www.abovetopsecret.com... thread, one of respected members state:

Originally posted by ZeroDeep

All what we know about Jesus is taken from the scriptures and lectures made by the very same people who made the Christian Order murdering innocent pagans.

What are you talking about, thier is an ample amount of historical evidence to prove his existence

Deep

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
Well, I searched for the origins of the christian faith, and this is a site I found. It is quite interesting, but also lenghty:
THE ESSENE-CHRISTIAN FAITH...THE UNTOLD STORY OF CHRISTIAN ORIGINS
www.geocities.com...

Great site. I agree with a lot of the content and have already posted a lot of those theories.
Bear in mind though, that it is a website with a very strong Jewish bias.
Beth Emet libraries motto is "Returning Christianity to it's Jewish Roots".
In my opinion, the problem is that the Jewish roots are the corrupting influence on Christianity, whereas the older Egyptian roots, that the site seems to denigrate, were purer. It's OK saying Christianity has been corrupted, but why regress it back even further to a religion that was a corruption in itself?

[Edited on 5-3-2004 by Leveller]