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Maybe We Should Keep Them There

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posted on May, 9 2008 @ 09:49 AM
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The idea that some people think we should keep someone in prison because he 'might' do something, or is more 'likely' to do something, is the most disturbing part of this thread. Particularly when he was held for /years/ already, and found guilty of /nothing/.

I have no words for how much that outrages me. It makes me ill.



edit: changed tense of sentence to clarify

[edit on 9-5-2008 by Jadette]




posted on May, 9 2008 @ 10:06 AM
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The really amazing thing here is that for all of ATS's protesting over the formation of a New World Order, "YOU" are all so ready, willing and apparently able to apply the United States Constitutional Guarantees to the citizens of other countries...

So, which is it?

Do you want the Constitution to apply to all other countries and we can dispense with the bologna of your adversity to a NWO, or are you going to accept and understand that the United States Constitution was written for, by and about the citizens of this great nation and in no way was intended to protect her enemies...

You all seem to want it both ways...

I understand most of it. You all want to be "in the ""IN"" crowd" and currently the easiest way to be popular is to come out, with teeth flashing, and condemn the United States, President Bush and especially Gitmo... We all want to be popular after all.. My stance, while more practical and realistic, also more along the lines of what the Constitution says, is of course unpopular. But it is those that believe as I do, that have been protecting the rear ends of all you popularity contestants..

You all really should try explaining to the families of those he killed in his suicide bombing, or would have killed, that he was just an innocent misunderstood creature of nature that only wanted to run barefoot through a daisy field for the rest of his life; so that is why you all let him go...
That it was the BIG BAD evil U. S., the nation responsible for ever evil throughout history, that made him a terrorist...
What a load!!!

ps... Thanks budski for the support, but in a thread like this, I generally ignore the emotional outbursts and consider where they emanate from..

Semper



posted on May, 9 2008 @ 10:24 AM
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reply to post by semperfortis
 


I want us to abide by the Constitution we set forth for ourselves. Not just do whatever we feel like. Just because a person is from another country doesn't mean that we should ignore the fundamentals of our own system - which was designed for a reason.

Abiding by our own Constitution in no way contributes to the plans of the "NWO" by attributing our laws to another nation's citizens. It's more of a moral code of conduct, rather than saying, "You'll live by our rules cause you're in our custody" - it's more like saying "Though, your country may have no moral judicial code - we feel that you should have basic human rights. Guilty or not."

Of course, our Constitution doesn't apply to military detainees ... but we are bound by the Geneva Code - or, um ... at least we were.

[edit on 9-5-2008 by tyranny22]



posted on May, 9 2008 @ 10:33 AM
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reply to post by semperfortis
 


Well semper - my stance is one that I've held for many years, and has little to do with bush&co other than that is where the orders originated.

We have international civil liberties, treaties and plain, good old fashioned humanitarian concerns, and IMO what locking up many innocents, without charge has done is to lower international trust for the US.

If that's OK with you, then we are coming from different places on this.

Question:
Would you consider the incarceration of US citizens, by a foreign power, without trial, to be justified just because that foreign powers leader said it was justified?

Now consider further if many US citizens were locked up without trial (let's leave the torture angle, for the moment) with no due process, and with no definite charges being brought.

Would you then think it was OK for the US to attack the foreign power in order to express their displeasure and to try and free their citizens who had been incarcerated?



posted on May, 9 2008 @ 07:31 PM
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reply to post by budski
 


It would depend completely on the circumstances of course...

If that American Citizen took up arms and fought against that country, and was subsequently captured,, OH WELL!!! So sorry for your luck... I would feel no different than I do for this animal.. Oops I mean human, well not really...

If I am not mistaken, that is why the Mercenary Business, and being paid by a foreign country to engage in a war, is illegal.. Just because we will not support you if you do..

Again, we need to attempt to stop mixing apples and oranges. This was not some school boy with an ounce of pot in his pocket, taking a stroll along the river and being abducted by the big bad US.. This was a MAN, that choose to take up arms outside of his native country and attack the interests of this country, due to some misguided savage illusions of a religious belief gone mad...

Now if you are going to make excuses, any excuse as long as it makes you feel better, heck, you can excuse Mansion, Bundy and Hitler, if your going to make up things...
And of COURSE he said he was coerced, I can honestly say that in all of my years, I have only ever arrested a handful of people that admitted they were guilty.. In almost ever instance, they CLAIMED I coerced their statements from them, even though it was obtained perfectly willingly at the time. I have even had them sit and watch themselves on tape, IN COURT, giving their confession and tell the jury.... "That's not me"

When are people going to wake up and understand the world is FULL of BAD people, and those people will lie.. You all don't really need to make stuff up for them, they will provide plenty of lies on their own..

HE GAVE A CONFESSION

Now you all can make up what ever scenario you choose to in your own minds, imagine some guy dressed in black, beating him with a phone book, or a clown hitting him with a rubber chicken, if it makes you sleep better at night.. It does not matter to me. I have dealt with, lived among and fought BAD people my entire life, and I am not so easily fooled...

You may not know it, or ever admit it, but you sleep better at night because there are men out there like me...


“People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.”

George Orwell quotes

Think Exist

Semper



posted on May, 10 2008 @ 06:23 AM
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Originally posted by semperfortis
If that American Citizen took up arms and fought against that country, and was subsequently captured,, OH WELL!!! So sorry for your luck... I would feel no different than I do for this animal.. Oops I mean human, well not really...


You'd have no problems with SAS rendition squads operating in the US rounding up those people who supplied money and arms to the IRA in the 70's and 80's then I assume



posted on May, 10 2008 @ 07:32 AM
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reply to post by neformore
 


Damn nef - you stole my punchline - and I set it up so carefully!


Ah well, maybe next time



posted on May, 10 2008 @ 08:16 AM
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reply to post by neformore
 


If Al-Qaeda was running my country, no, I would have no problem with them at all. I would simply join them...

It sure would not turn me into a terrorist, but I guess I could use that as an excuse..

Semper



posted on May, 10 2008 @ 10:23 PM
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I think these are Two seperate issues. Those in Gitmo should get legal trials, and when found must get punishment. But arresting some one without proof and locking up in inhuman conditions is not justifiable. We can punish but not abuse.



posted on May, 11 2008 @ 02:24 AM
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reply to post by semperfortis
 


I just realised - you never answered my question


The one about SAS rendition squads rounding up those in the US who helped fund the IRA .....a couple of posts up?



posted on May, 11 2008 @ 09:09 AM
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reply to post by neformore
 


Still you continue to mix apples and oranges to make your point. It is easy to "prove" a point when you can warp a scenario in anyway you wish...

I answered your question...


Post by Semperfortis

If Al-Qaeda was running my country, no, I would have no problem with them at all. I would simply join them...

It sure would not turn me into a terrorist, but I guess I could use that as an excuse..


However to make it more accurate, I will put some relevance into your scenario to make it more so...

"IF" I was out of my own country, (like the subject of the thread) in another's country, (again like the thread subject), fighting against the legitimate government of that country, (like the thread subject) I would expect to be hunted by the LEGITIMATE authorities and taken to a place for holding war criminals (like the thread subject)....

There now, that fits the REAL scenario much more accurately without the use of exaggeration or manipulation to make a point...

So the answer to the more accurate question, is no problem at all..

Semper



posted on May, 12 2008 @ 10:39 AM
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reply to post by semperfortis
 


This brings about an interesting point - that of sponsoring terrorist organisations.

With that in mind, shouldn't you be arresting and incarcerating all the politicians who supported the taliban, as well as those in government security agencies who helped train the taliban, and by default, also al qaeda?

After all, if various US governments hadn't sponsored/trained them in the first place, it's unlikely that they would be the threat you say they are today.

Therefore, they are responsible for the terror threat, even if only indirectly.



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 08:37 AM
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reply to post by semperfortis
 


So what punishment would you deem fit for the various US intelligence assets in foreign countries who have deposed democratically-elected leaders?



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 09:46 AM
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Originally posted by dave420
So what punishment would you deem fit for the various US intelligence assets in foreign countries who have deposed democratically-elected leaders?


Thats a damn good question considering the actions of the CIA in Iran in 1953.

And what about those involved in the Bay of Pigs?

Or in Chile....



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