Liquid Water Found on the Moon?

It cannot be liquid water because water cannot exist in liquid form with atmospheric pressure that low, let alone those temperatures. Liquid water cannot exist below 611 Pa, it goes from solid and boils away to a gas, skipping the liquid phase. The Moon is below 611 Pa.

If the surface of the Moon is facing the Sun, and exposed ice would be melted because of the temperature. The Moon's gravity is not strong enough to keep any evaporated water, so it would just float away. Ice would have to be buried well below the surface to stay intact as ice.

If this is a liquid, then it needs to be a liquid that can exist in that environment. Liquid state is determined by temperature and pressure. More than likely, it is a form of glass which can easily be made in that environment.

Honestly we must not forget that sheer amount of glass structures that were used in moon bases in the past. This could just be a few shards that the dust didn't quite cover over. Making glass on the moon is very sturdy do to mineral composition. Anyways glass shards can cause that same water like reflection.

This IMO is impactite or a version of it, i used to find clumps of it around Meter Crater in AZ, an it has a very very close resemblance to it, it looked like water so much in parts i would try and pop the bubbles with my finger, some parts of it would cave into little hollow holes, you find the same kind of bubbles in other rocks also but mostly where there was silica present, im not saying it is exactly the same, but then it wouldn't be because its on the moon and has a lower gravity and would cool a lot faster.

Sorry to disapoint, but this is Impactite, ive examined a ton of this stuff at Meter Crater in AZ as well as a few other areas in south America, it cools a lot quicker on the moon and gravity also effects its formation, but that is what it is.





Both of these are the same thing in different forms, they are caused by Meteorite impacts and pressure.




[edit on 7/5/2008 by azzllin]

Originally posted by azhAa
Honestly we must not forget that sheer amount of glass structures that were used in moon bases in the past.

Oh yes... you could be right... maybe cast offs or 'slag' from the Building of Hoagland's domes... you might have something there

Hey ArMaP have you been able to come up with a true color version of this image yet? I trust your jugement on that... so we can have a closer look at those 'crystals' ziggystar60 is interested in...

And I will confess... I calculated that the 'water' or 'glass', being more noticeable without any enhancements, was the way to go to start this thread... so sorry ziggy if I didn't bring the right focus in 'Round One'

I pointed to the 'animation' of that hole because the movement of the 'marbles' (as Mike calls them) was the first thing that caught my eye...

I think getting rid of that NASA 'green cheese' color is the first step though...

Hey JRA you have a picture of that rake on Earth? For a color comparison?

I am not much of an archivist, so i do not know what image this crop came from. It was one of the Apollo missions, certainly....perhaps Zorgon or ArMaP can help identify the source.

However, in this image it appears that there are blueberries laying on the moons surface. No, they are not blueberries. I believe them to be glass balls (I think Zorgon concurred at one point...but that was a long time ago).

Regardless, it is an interesting notion:






regarding the image shown in this thread, it seems to have a faint golden appearance to it (at least where the small light patterns are located it appears that way).


Almost like some giant piece of ore.

(image tags)

[edit on 7-5-2008 by Jbird]

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


Nope don't recall seeing that one before... they do kinda look like those little glass like spheres you get from electric arching...



Either that or they are playing Marbles

Does anyone know what the freezing point of certain liquid metals are such as Mercury? Because no matter how hot the sun was the "water" wouldn't have the capability to thaw on the moon it's simply to cold.

reply to post by TheBorg


I see what you mean, but I don't see it as a refraction, there is no indication of transparency, refraction would make the "drop" work as a lens, focusing the light on a spot opposite to the source of the light, and in this case we can only see the reflection of the light, there is no other light point for that (or for any other) "drop".

Originally posted by mikesingh
And as shown in Zorgon's post the 'marbles' seem to have shifted position in the next frame. This could possibly be the astronaut fingering them out of curiosity before taking the next shot!

I think that the explanation is on the page where ziggystar60 found the image, in the legend for the next image.

Dave has stepped to his left to get this stereo companion to 11570.

That is why they "move", the point of view of the camera was the one that changed.

Originally posted by zorgon
Hey ArMaP have you been able to come up with a true color version of this image yet? I trust your jugement on that...

so we can have a closer look at those 'crystals' ziggystar60 is interested in...www.hq.nasa.gov...

I think that those photos are as close to true colour as we can get, you can see in the following photo (one of the photos I posted yesterday on another invisible post...) the colours of that coloured strip that I think was used just for that.

If you have a photo of that coloured strip on Earth I can try to adjust the colours.



I also said on that post that there is nothing on the ground like what we can see on the rock, another indication that this probably is just something that is part of the rock and not some liquid.

It's either metal, or mercury.
Does'nt really look like water to me, no caustics or light refraction, just plain phong/metalic like light distribution.

Interesting that you find that....NASA is going to announce something big in a week...maybe this is it?

Edit: proof

[edit on 7-5-2008 by unknownfrost]

reply to post by zorgon


Thanks for your U2U, Zorgon, I appreciate it. Here I will show you (and the other members at ATS) the two features I found interesting when I first discovered the image. I have circled them:





About the real color of the astronaut's rake, I don't know. I haven't been able to find any images of it taken here on earth, only drawings. But take a look at this spacesuit, which was used by astronaut Scott in the Apollo 15 mission. It still has moon dirt on it, and look at the knee - the color of the dirt is not grey, it is BROWN!




If you adjust the color in the image of the rock (AS15-86-11570) so that the color of the surface is brown, the "crystals" in the little round opening look like this:




Isn't those colors absolutely amazing? If this is a completely natural phenomena, how come NASA hasn't told us about this beautiful feature?

Best regards, Ziggystar60.



[edit on 7-5-2008 by ziggystar60]

reply to post by ziggystar60


Those things look like bubbles, like those mud bubbles that appear when there is some gas comming out of a mud pool.

I don't know if it is possible for bubbles to appear in the same conditions that create glass, but it's what it looks like to me.

Originally posted by zorgon
Hey ArMaP have you been able to come up with a true color version of this image yet?

Like ArMaP said. These images are true colour. They were taken with 70mm kodak colour film. These photos aren't like the ones you get from probes and rovers where the images are taken through different filters. It's simply just a single exposure taken on colour film.

Hey JRA you have a picture of that rake on Earth? For a color comparison?

It's unpainted aluminium. I don't think a photo from Earth or the Moon would make much of a difference. Here's a site that has photos of all sorts of geology equipment that was used. The photos are B&W though. history.nasa.gov...

If you think the colours are off drastically, you can use the Gnomon that has a colour chart that's in some of the photos to help assist in the colour adjustment, like in this one.

[edit on 7-5-2008 by jra]

Originally posted by Lokey13
Does anyone know what the freezing point of certain liquid metals are such as Mercury? Because no matter how hot the sun was the "water" wouldn't have the capability to thaw on the moon it's simply to cold.

i lived in Laramie, Wy for awhile, and i can tell you that, even at -40, you will see ice turn directly to vapor. It is strange, but the ice buildup in the winters will still "thaw", even at severely low temps, by converting directly to vapor.

Not sure if this is everywhere, but it happens in Laramie, which is 9000 ft above sea level.

reply to post by ziggystar60



those two features caught my attention, as well. Very interesting, indeed. It almost looks as though there is an amalgamation of materials, melted somehow and fused together in a somewhat haphazard form. For example, the sudden melting of some sort of device. There seems to be a glass like material, some "sparkly" material, some golden material, and a dull, metallic material.

zorgon, electrical etching is a thought that i had. Those glass balls obviously look like something from a high heat source. This is not that way. It is rough and strangly shaped, encrusted with regolith/dirt. Almost like an iron meteor in how the overall shape appears. I don't know. It certainly is an interesting image.

[edit on 7-5-2008 by bigfatfurrytexan]

[edit on 7-5-2008 by Jbird]

Originally posted by ArMaP
reply to post by ziggystar60

 

Those things look like bubbles, like those mud bubbles that appear when there is some gas comming out of a mud pool.

I don't know if it is possible for bubbles to appear in the same conditions that create glass, but it's what it looks like to me.

Yes, ArMaP, but what about the colors? If you look at the spacesuit that was used by astronaut Scott in the Apollo 15 mission, you can clearly see that the moon dirt in this area was not grey, it was brown. The image that NASA has presented to us can NOT show the correct colors.

Look what the Lunar and Planetary Institue says about the Apollo 15 landing site. It is described as a "dark mare plain":

The Apollo 15 lunar module landed in the Hadley-Apennine region site located at 26.1°N, 3.7°E. The site is on a dark mare plain near the sinuous Hadley Rille and the frontal scarp of the Apennine Mountains.

Link to the page, look at "Landing site": www.lpi.usra.edu...

Best regards, Ziggystar60.

[

Hey JRA you have a picture of that rake on Earth? For a color comparison?

It's unpainted aluminium. I don't think a photo from Earth or the Moon would make much of a difference. Here's a site that has photos of all sorts of geology equipment that was used. The photos are B&W though. history.nasa.gov...

If you think the colours are off drastically, you can use the Gnomon that has a colour chart that's in some of the photos to help assist in the colour adjustment, like in this one.

[edit on 7-5-2008 by jra]

Hi, I was just wondering, why do you state that the rake is made of "unpainted aliminium"? You only give us a link to a site with B&W photos, so how do you know what color the rake has? I have not been able to find any color photos of it, so I don't think any of us can assume anything here.

And about the gnomon and the color chart, this is what NASA says about it in the Apollo 14 Press Kit (page 50):

Color C h a r t - The color chart is painted with three primary colors and a gray scale . It is used in calibration for lunar photography.

Link to the press kit: history.nasa.gov...

I don't think the gnomon looks right in the images NASA has given us. The colors (red, blue and green) should be primary colors, strong and clear. Especially the green color looks off in NASA image you provided a link to. (This one: www.hq.nasa.gov...)

Best regards, Ziggystar60.