Obama Takes Heat for Opposing Gas Tax Holiday

Originally posted by plumranch
reply to post by mybigunit

 

Ok so I read the thread past where you posted. The info the OP used comes from the Fed Tax records and is correct. 2nd poster Sri Oracle uses some assumptions that unfortunately are wrong about the money supply and based on that all the rest of his assumptions are wrong. The next poster gets it right, the CPI or consumer price index is the bottom line and that hasn't only gone up 22% or so and wages have gone up accordingly so the net effect balances out. Yes the Canadian dollar has gone up but that is due to Katrina and the following real estate slump and the fact that the fed had to lower interest rates to prevent a recession (which apparently worked BTW). Also gas prices a year ago were $2.25, now they are $3.50 and the only thing that has changed is that Pelosi and her party have taken over congress. Congress makes the laws, not the president. Pelosi and company promised to solve the problems with energy back then mostly blaming the oil companies and has done nothing. and that is my whole point.

Increase in the debt is bothersome and should be stopped but really doesn't affect the man on the street much. Noone is "printing money", that term is false and bring up images of pre Natzi Germany. The money supply is increased in other ways. Increase in money supply is not necessarily a bad thing.

Bottom line is if the libs get in and end the tax cuts that we have gotten accustomed to we all will be in a world of hurt. Look at it your way, if things have gotten so much worse as you think, why would you want to compound the problem by basically raising the taxes on the little guy who now is hurting because of high gas and comodity prices? I don't get, I really don't!

My wife the college level economics teacher advises me on the economic stuff. I do the yard work.

Hope this helps!

Core CPI and Headline are two different things. The problem is the numbers use core and excludes food and energy....well geee where do you think all the working person is getting hit the hardest right now. The fact is wages have not kept up with inflation its just a fact Ill get you the link to show you I just have to do some digging. Yeah gas prices have gone from 2.25 to 3.50 that is a 33% increase...has peoples wages gone up 33%? You average food increase is 38% has wages gone up 38%? Oh but that big screen TV has only gone up a little that is the difference between headline CPI and Core.

Second off if you think printing all sorts of money doesnt affect the man on the street then Im sorry you are mistaken and yes printing money is exactly what is being done....Ok I dont know why Im about to give a lesson on money but Im going to anyways......

The government doesnt issue its own money its all borrowed. Every last dime of the money spent is borrowed. Now we borrow from many places China, Japan, even our own federal reserve which holds most of our debt. Now we pay interest on all this money we borrow. Now what has kept inflation in check for these years is other countries have been buying all of our debt instead of it all going on the feds balance sheet. Now these countries have put a halt to it. So if people dont lend us the money then we have to print the money. Simple supply and demand what happens if there as way to much supply not enough demand..the product loses value..the same goes with our money. The increase in money supply is a bad thing unless someone is there to buy that debt which our buyers are running smaller and smaller. China has already come out and said they are looking into other currencies and they are dumping the dollar as we speak. This is why inflation is going out the roof. Well who ultimately pays...you and me like we are right now.

In final I dont know why you think Im a democrat Im voting for Ron Paul and I dont want ANY income taxes. I just dont agree with the tax holiday because it is only going to save me $28 and we will be losing a lot more in road jobs and what not. Im also saying it is a big misconception that democrats spend all the money when the fact is the republicans have been spending all the money in the past 28 years. I want the FED abolished and to go back to a hard currency. But in this current fiat monetary system we have there has to be taxes to supplement all the money that is being printed. That is why the IRS was created the same time the Federal Reserve was created in 1913. Its important you learn about how money works because until people really understand how it works and yes you are right it sounds like Nazi Germany because it is. The power of our money and economy is in the hands of a private company the federal reserve and right now they are making a lot of money off you and me.

As far as college economics I didnt graduate high school but I own my own successful decorative plumbing company so I had to learn about money real fast and I know ALL the ins and outs of how our screwed up system works and trust me it is not a democrat vs republican thing..it really is a rich vs poor thing.

[edit on 3-5-2008 by mybigunit]

reply to post by plumranch

Thank you!

I have been trying to explain how the Bush tax cuts helped me out to some friends and they keep repeating that mantra "tax cuts for rich... ummmm... tax cuts for rich... ummm... Bush is evil... ummmm..."

MY taxes went down to the tune of a few grand a year. Last year I only made about 20K (due to a brief stint with unemployment) and the year before about 35K... that's rich?!? Someone better check their figures. I still have trouble paying attention, much less bills.

And yeah, I know Obama likes new taxes, but I can't in good faith allow McCain to continue this economic freefall Bush has started and I can't allow Hillary to win, so... unless Ron Paul or someone like him can get a shot, I'm stuck with Obama. At least he does have the right idea on this one gas tax issue.

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck


Your taxes went down a lot due to being closer to the poverty line.

I made almost exactly the same (29,000) and had relatively the same taxes. Thank god I quit working this year to finish college.

29,000k just doesn't cut it. Barely kept my head above water.

reply to post by Sublime620

Actually, I am well above the poverty line here. Last year I was making about the average income for this area. Our costs of living are pretty low compared to the national average.

There are areas in this country where 20K, 29K, or 35K would be considered dirt poor. It all depends on where you live.

And your taxes staying about the same confuses me. Mine definitely went down, and we average about the same amount. Hmmm...

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck


Gotcha man. I definitely know what you mean about cost of living changing. I've gone from NJ (crazy cost of living) to NC, where it's not so bad.

But now we are moving to Charlotte, and it's pretty high there.

reply to post by mybigunit


Hi MBU,

Congratulations on your plumbing business success. I'm trying to sell a successful business and get on with my life, move my operation to the "lower 48".

My other half gives me lectures about the operation of the Fed whenever I seem to be going off the reservation. The report I get is that the money system is doing fine, we are dealing with the bank and housing crunch, we can still maintain the money supply using the usual 3 mechanisms the Fed has at its disposal. The Fed only "prints money" to replace worn bills and maintain the currency in circulation. And the National Debt vs Gross Domestic Product ratio is only up a few percentage points (from 60 to 65%). The Fed was created to modernize the banking system and prevent the wild swings between boom and depressions. I watch the markets closely and have noted that the stock markets has been in a definate upswing for some time now. So US business in general has a positive attitude right now.

reply to

I have been trying to explain how the Bush tax cuts helped me out to some friends and they keep repeating that mantra "tax cuts for rich... ummmm... tax cuts for rich... ummm... Bush is evil... ummmm..."

post by TheRedneck


The liberal media was fraudulent in calling the Bush tax cuts for the rich when the "Poor fellow" had his taxes cut 46% and the "Rich guy" only had his cut 11%. It just shows how biased our current system is to convince the poor people that they are worse off now than the were before tax wise. Most poor people are completely off the tax rolls now because of the Bush tax cuts. This is poor policy IMHO as those people can still vote and you can be sure they will try to vote themselves more and more benifits from the people who are paying taxes.

Thus politics now are based more and more on class envy. Now one party spends all it's time trying to convince it's constituents someone else owes them something. This amounts to unfair, fraudulent greed IMHO.

Originally posted by plumranch
reply to post by mybigunit

 

Hi MBU,

Congratulations on your plumbing business success. I'm trying to sell a successful business and get on with my life, move my operation to the "lower 48".

My other half gives me lectures about the operation of the Fed whenever I seem to be going off the reservation. The report I get is that the money system is doing fine, we are dealing with the bank and housing crunch, we can still maintain the money supply using the usual 3 mechanisms the Fed has at its disposal. The Fed only "prints money" to replace worn bills and maintain the currency in circulation. And the National Debt vs Gross Domestic Product ratio is only up a few percentage points (from 60 to 65%). The Fed was created to modernize the banking system and prevent the wild swings between boom and depressions. I watch the markets closely and have noted that the stock markets has been in a definate upswing for some time now. So US business in general has a positive attitude right now.

Id stay in Alaska..nice and peaceful up there. Im trying to sell my business also because I am moving to Iowa to get to a more peaceful setting.

I have to disagree with your wife. Please listen to me on this because this is important and could affect all of us in the near future. Our monetary system is not fine. The credit crunch is not even due to a lack of money out there. It is a name of a problem to cover up what is a much bigger problem. That problem is since the fed took over our monetary system in 1913 from 1913 to 2005 10 trillion dollars was created. We had an outstanding amount of 10 trillion dollars out there. from 2006 to present we have a total according to the M3 estimates of 14 trillion dollars of outstanding money out there. So in a matter of 3 years we have increased money supply 40%. Now they dont even want to publish M3 information anymore. Why? Because they dont want people to see the gross amount of money being created because once again its a supply and demand issue the more money we create and the demand weakening you have some sick inflationary issues. This "lack of liquidity" in the banking system is crap and not truth..there is more than enough money in the system but the problem is its all sitting in a very select fews hands so what do they do they print more money which is what they are essentially doing while lowering the interest rates. So all of this bailout money given to these banks is just more and more inflationary.

Which brings us to our second problem. Not only do you have the fed printing all sorts of money to give to the banks you have our government spending money like a drunken sailor. This too has inflationary implications because we have to borrow this money. It used to be we would borrow it from China, Japan and what not but these countries are starting to walk away from buying our debt. So where do we get the money now? Our federal reserve. So now we get to print more and more money to run our governments daily operations. On top of this we have to pay INTEREST on all of the money we are talking about here because all of the money our government spends is borrowed money. That is how our system is set up. You think your tax dollars are going to pay for education no its not its going to pay the interest on the money we borrowed to pay for education essentially making big bankers a lot of money.

The fed was not created to modernize banking it was created to make a very select few very very rich. If you want to see who really pulls the strings in this country it is not Bush or dems or repubs look no further than the owners of the federal reserve. Look at all the swings up and down we have in the market the fed was supposed to prevent this stuff from happening but yet every 5 years we go into some sort of recession.

Now the debt to the GDP is assuming that the GDP continues to grow at the rate of our debt. I promise you its not..this year we will have little to no growth and tax receipts will probably be down this year and in 2009. Do me a favor and you have to do this for me watch this video
www.youtube.com...
this video video is a good beginners way to get the basics on money.

None of these clowns are qualified to run for the office of president of the United States. They all have ZERO experience in an executive position. The only relevant experience they could possibly have is as governor of a state. The ones who were qualified were ignored by the ignorant and easily manipulated public. Every word out of Obama's mouth on the economy shows he hasn't a clue.

As for the problem of building new nuclear power plants, it's the environmentalists who are blocking them. Most of them love to old up Chernobyl as a reason to be against these plants. This so perfectly illustrates the fact that they don't know what the hell they are talking about. Modern nuclear plants can not melt down. The nuclear reaction is tied into the cooling system. Cooling system fails reactions can no longer take place. ZERO chance of meltdown. We need more nuclear plants. The ignorant are the ones who have the loudest voices in this country and it is sad.


[edit on 5/8/2008 by norman619]

reply to post by norman619

Most of them love to old up Chernobyl as a reason to be against these plants.

Thanks,

In 1985 I spent over a month climbing and traveling in Russia and 3 days in Moscow. So I had the opportunity to observe the Russian's standards for quality in contruction. Most everything it seemed from buildings, machines, subways, highways, airports and aircraft were in poor repair, worn out by our standards and falling apart. The buildings had horizontal fences sticking out above the ground story to stop the falling debris from klobering the passersby!


When I flew out of Moscow, landed in Paris and spent a day there, the difference was like night and day!

So I wasn't surprised to hear later that one of their nuclear facilities broke down!