Did God Intervene? Evangelicals think so!

SOURCE

The Almighty intervened in the U.S. election, these evangelicals believe, to allow Bush to remain president. They say God has "blessed" America with Bush--and had Sen. John Kerry been elected, God would have "cursed" the U.S. By allowing Bush to be re-elected, God has given America "more time" to stop its slide into evil.
"This was Providence," evangelical leader and presidential adviser Charles Colson told Beliefnet. "Anybody looking at the 2000 election would have to say it was.a miraculous deliverance, and I think people felt it again this year." By allowing Bush to stay in office, Colson said, God is "giving us a chance to repent and to restore some moral sanity to American life."

In retrospect, i wonder how they still feel now? Any change feeling that God blessed us with the Bush administration? Or has there been second thoughts?

Any Evangelicals here?

I am not trying to slam evangelicals, all i want is to know if this still applies and WHY.

Well, I'm no evangelical, or even a Christian for that matter....actually I'm not religious at all, so what I say here may be a bit biased or opinionated.

I think any claim that Bush was a god-send to the United States is a bit ridiculous. He has only made problems we had before his presidency worse, and created new problems for the future generations of this nations to deal with. He really has just placed the United States in quagmire and anyone who believes he has done good for this country must be living in an imaginary world. The only good he's done for the world is increase aid going to Sub-Saharan Africa, but even with that being said, his domestic policies have done nothing but bankrupt the United States.

That's just my 2 cents.

I would describe myself as Evangelical Christian, for sure.

First of all, I disagree with your premise; that Evangelicals all believe Bush was a God-send. Some may see it that way. But to imply that God made Bush win the election flies in the face of a very key component to Christianity; Free Will.

We all have been given free will. And it is completely free. We are free to help and free to harm. Free to kill, free to heal. Free to vote or not to vote at all. We are free to vote for whomever we chose. To imply that God "made" people vote a certain way or somehow is ruling American politics from above is just silly. It would mean that we don't truly have much free will and we're all just puppets, doing what God "makes" us do.

I like how Rick Warren starts off his book, "The Purpose Driven Life." He starts by saying, "Life is a test." And that is in line with my world view of this life and why God put us here. We are here as a test. What we believe, what we do, how we act toward others all tell God what he should do with us when we die. Not that any of us can ever be perfect. But God is looking for what's in our hearts. Are we trying to do what we believe is right? Or are will purposely harming others, knowing what we're doing is wrong. Do we accept His word and authority or will we reject it and try to make up our own rules. He only wants to invite people into his Kingdom who are willing to work with Him. Those who chose to rebel, he can't work with.

So key to this whole concept is free will. In order for this test to work; it has to be absolute. We must have absolute free will in this life to be as good or as evil as we want. Anything less (if God interfered regularly) then there wouldn't be any purpose to placing us here. He wants us to have complete free will and he is watching how we use it. If he were constantly intervening in our lives then we are nothing more than puppets or robots. Or maybe caged puppies, who, every time they step out of our boundaries are whipped and sent back to the cage. What would be the point of that?

Think of it this way; would you rather have your friends be with you because they CHOSE to be with you and like you? Or would you rather use your influence and control to MAKE them be friends with you? Which type of friend would you value more? God isn't some fascist dictator who wants to force everyone to like Him and adhere to his rules. He's more like an owner of a club who will welcome you in, as long as you want to play by the club's rules, code of conduct and decency and respect the club owner. If not, he doesn't want you coming in. But it's your choice, not His.

So for whoever (Evangelicals, et. al.) to suggest that God made Bush win the white-house as some last-ditch effort or wake-up call to America is just silly. I don't believe God acts that way.

First of all I would like to welcome you to ATS PalmTreeLivin, it's always good to see a new member who can offer information and knowledge, as well as personal opinion to the rest of us!

As I said in my first post on this topic, I am not religious by any means, but I believe your way of thinking is a great way to perceive the world and life in general. I'm not sure if your statement,

Originally posted by PalmTreeLivin

First of all, I disagree with your premise; that Evangelicals all believe Bush was a God-send. Some may see it that way. But to imply that God made Bush win the election flies in the face of a very key component to Christianity; Free Will.

was directed towards my post or not, but if it was I would like to clarify that I didn't say all Evangelicals believe Bush was a God-send, nor did I take a stance against religion, I try to steer away from that path when I can because I do believe everyone has a right to believe in what they want to.

reply to post by dgtempe
I'm a Christian.

I really think the whole idea of Bush somehow being given divine right to the throne in America is kinda silly though. Bush is a politician, not a minister. And while God can and does use leaders to accomplish His goals, it's more through persuasion than through fiddling with election results. PalmTreeLivin said it very well when he discussed free will.

I voted for Bush in 2000, and was very adamant about doing so. In 2004, I did not cast a vote for President, simply because I no longer trusted Bush and certainly couldn't trust 'waffle-house' Kerry. Now I just wish Bush would go away. None of those feelings were religious in nature. My vote for and my abstinence later on of Bush, were the result of trying to read how the man thought, what his values were, and how I expected him to act. I have been right a few times, and I have been wrong a few times, but that still seems a much better way to make a decision than religious affiliation.

I realize there are those who would vote for a green baboon if they thought it was a religious green baboon, but I am not among them. Nor are the millions of Christians living in the USA, from my experience. That is a stereotype, and a very incorrect one. To lump a group of Christians together is like saying that all New Yorkers are rude, or that all gays are cross dressers, or that all Catholic priests are pedophiles, or that all black men like watermelon. It just ain't so.

TheRedneck

reply to post by dgtempe


dg, along those same lines, I feel another question needs to be asked.

Does the President himself feel that he was sent here by GOD to intervene and that his leadership is providence and ordained by GOD to guide and restore moral sanity to American life.

I have a hard time wrapping my mind around any Evangelical dogma as they seem to play fast and loose with the Scripture to fit their world view anyway.

Yeah "Evangelicals" is a label that covers a lot of territory.

Evangelicals are a far more diverse group than people think, and they are certainly not all what we would think of as the "Religious Right." IIRC Evangelicals were historically, among other things, a major component of the Abolitionist movement, the women's suffrage movement, etc...

Bush has a lot of support among right-wing religious traditionalists - but there are many Evangelicals that don't really fall into this category.

Thanks for your answers. I dont like religious type threads either, because i have rather unconventional views myself, and dont know enough about other religions to judge anyone.

I saw this article and grant it, it was written some time ago, i think, but i simply wondered if it was true.

I WILL tell you of my only experience, well, no, make that two.

When i lived in Phoenix my mom did not belong, but worked babysitting little ones a couple of days a week just to keep busy, in this evangelical church with lots of nice people. Wonderful people.
My mother invited me to come along with her and a couple of other people to a little play they were sponsoring- i said, sure, why not! (I have no problem entering different churches).

Not 2 minutes into a quick little sermon before the show, the preacher asked us to take a moment and have Jesus bless president Bush. I stiffened up. Only after that moment of silence did the show start.
Insignificant? maybe.

A lady i worked with, an evangelical, would preach up and down every day how christians should back up Bush and this government because it was the right way to go. Jesus' way.
I ended up moving my desk to another side of the building so i didnt have to hear this on a daily basis. Good lady, meant well, but totally apparently brainwashed by her church.

Only two, but they left a sour taste in my mouth. So i started this thread to find out if these churches were still on some level, promoting
the government.

I realize that not all evangelicals are this or that- in fact, my experience is that they are good people.
Just curious, thats all.

reply to post by dgtempe

I can go along with wanting to pray for Bush (he sure seems to need all the help he can get!), since he's the one in control and therefore the one who is responsible for the nation. I would have a problem in the second instance myself though. I guess it depends on how much you dislike the guy.

I personally don't hate George Bush, I just think he is making one seriously bad President.

TheRedneck

Hate is such a passionate word. I beleive you have to love someone first before you can be capable of hating.

I never loved Bush. I highly dislike him.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry when I hear someone squeezing meaning out circumstances and calling it "God's Will" or "The Hand of God"

Sometimes a piece of burnt toast is just that, burnt toast and not a sign from God, even if it does have what looks like a picture of Jesus. I have family members who interpret virtually every fortuitous circumstance as God manifesting in their lives. To me, I find it extremely self-centered and egotistical. Yes - I have felt the Holy Spirit in my life - but I realize also that God is busy and has more important things to attend to rather than manifest on a piece of toast or a fish stick or some crappy, stolen electiion.

As a southerner, I can attest that there are few things more exasperating and sanctimonious than an evangelical Christian. The Sunday Blue Laws are a great example. Keep the Sabbath holy...which one would that be. The Baptist version, the Jewish version or the Islamic version? Well I'm sorry, that only leaves four days a week for drinking...

reply to post by kosmicjack


If you had a Jewish Sabbath you could still drink. Just had to point that out.

In regards to the thread. I'm not evangelical. Maybe I could be. I could start Evangelical Judaism. Drinking on Sabbath for everyone!
Seriously though I dont think its impossible for G-d to put someone in power, look at Pharoah in Exodus. The thing is G-d doesn't always put good people in power. So who knows? Possible yes but good, not usually.

I think their heads are in the clouds. Its never a good idea to mix the church in with politics. Thats when you get people saying stuff like that when they have absolutely now idea whats going on. If God put Bush in power then he may have done it for other reasons then keeping America from evil.

-fm

reply to post by kosmicjack

As a child of a proud Southern Baptist family, you should really come over to their way of thinking... no drinking allowed, it's a SIN and the DEVIL is lying in wait at the bottom of that bottle... so go out behind the barn or at least out of town so nobody sees you drink 7 days a week.

Actually, my family never thought that way, but I do know quite a few who did.

TheRedneck

I personally don't think God intervenes in something like the election of a president, for the free will reason already outlined previously. If I did however, I would conclude that God truly hates Americans right now to have cursed them with one of the worst leaders on the planet at this time.

Two wars, a crashing economy, looming food shortages, crumbling civil rights, and all the rest of the recent problems do not meet my definition of a 'blessing on America', and they will not meet any sane person's definiton, either. Any one who claims Bush is blessing for the American public in general is either completely un/mis-informed, or belongs in an asylum.

I pray for a blessing in November, though I don't think it'll happen though, given the candidates.

reply to post by dgtempe


Those are not evangelicals those are demonics that live underneath our planet, and their time is shortened now.

The true evangelicals have intervened,
and they have told me that the Illuminati and New World Order has already failed.

I believe ‘G-d’ did help install ye ole GWB, along with all the doom and gloom surrounding his administration for whatever reason and probably but always for the good; since ‘G-d’ is good. I mean, J. Kerry would have been the scarier of the two, don’t y’all think so?

reply to post by PalmTreeLivin


OK...given your explaination of 'BUSH' and company...let me ask you this...

I was born and doctors gave me not 3 months to live, but I survived 40 years thus far, in that time I've brought a comatose child from a coma to talk, walk and act like nothing happened. I've befrended someone who nobody believed in, turns out was abused by her brother-in-law.

I'd become involved with someone who was abused by her step-mother, supported her (married her) raised 3 children (one of whom suffers from the same genetic defects I've had, been told the same SPEIL about not having long to live) another child with autism (thanks a alot BIG PHARMA) for vaccines 'FDA approved' which caused it.

She cheats on me, lies to me, took my children, jails me spouting lies...
Is that your wonderful GOD?...not mine, ok sure there's talk of trials and tribulation...but somewhere there has to be a line, if you ask me...GOD crossed it the minute he let me live, only to suffer me with what I have just stated.

Now he leaves me, bitter, cold, uncaring and certainly untrusting of anyone, because every time I've ever reached out to HELP someone, to show gratitude for the miracle of life, SLAPPED in the FACE I was!

There is no GOD, for if I was to believe there was, "it" would have to be the cruelest thing known to exist. Certainly I could understand pain and suffering unto those who do not appreciate life, care for another (not expecting worldly riches to befall them for showing such heart-felt kindness). All I ever did was CARE, what's my reward, to be tossed aside and made to feel like I and the things I have done selflessly do not matter!!

No wonder this rock's going to hell in a handbasket!

Now...I challenge you to explain this in "God's infinate wisdom" where's the compassion, love and understanding?

Yikes!!!!!! Evangelicals are a strange lot indeed. I once had a conversation with one of these Bush loving fruitcakes about the bible and why dinosaurs were never mentioned. Her reply was "Nobody has ever found fossils of dinosaurs before, what were believed to be dinosaur bones were actually pig bones." Her other biblical beliefs she holds near and dear are Noahs ark, a six thousand year old universe, the rapture, the parting of the red sea etc... So in dealing with this mentality level it's no wonder that evangelicals think that God loves Bush.
I often find it funny when say a trailer park gets hit by a tornado resulting in casualties theres always someone who says "God was looking out for me and my family." Oh really. I guess he didn't care to steer the tornado around you're twenty dead neighbors. They must have been satanists. Any hoo don't mean to rant or step on anyones beliefs but ya gotta wonder about the Evangelical mind set.

reply to post by dgtempe


Oh wow that is insane... hmmm God of this World is supposed to be Satan, eh?

I reckon something else had imput with the elections and it aint anything pure or holy!

I try not to judge but I think Bush is a bit like the little black book in Revelation.. yanno, the one that St John ate and it tasted as sweet as honey but made his belly ache?





[edit on 27-4-2008 by Thurisaz]