Ask a Hypnotist

Originally posted by MBF

Can a person hypnotize them self to do this? If so, how?

Self hypnoisis is not a hard thing to do once you've 'gotten the hang on it'. I think the easiest way for a person to start self hypnosis is to go to have a session done - tell the hypnotist that you want him to give you a key word (one that YOU came up with). Tell him/her your reason for being there is that you want to learn slef hypnosis and he/she can do something for you. There's a great little technique many hypnotist use called the 'switch' method for self hypnosis clients.

(Once I get back to having my cp on-line in the office or at home I'll have to start up a thread and teach you all how to go about self hypnosis.

I forgot to tell you how. LOL

For myself, since I already know the drill... I lay down or sit comfortably (you need to be as relaxed as possible), breath deaply 3 times slowly (this deep and slow breathing mimics what we do in deep sleep stages and automaticaly brings our brain wave frequency down a bit - helping us to get to where we want to be), then I beging taking myself to a place I created for my own needs during my self hypnosis sessions. For me, it's a library full of books - arranged in time line kind of way. Closest to me when I enter the 'hall of books' is now, farthest away is childhood. If it is a particuolar thing like... smoking, I can look and see a red book labled smoking. Inside this book will be pages and pages full of all the reasons I smoke etc. I can rip a page from this book of excuses and reasons and throw them away ...
You get the idea.
Anyway... any way that is best for you will work. The important thing at this point, since you don't have a hypnotist guiding you deeper into a hypnotic state, is that you continue with very clear and vivid imagary. Use that imagination to it's fullest. See it, hear it, smell it - everything you can bring in.
Your goal is to relax into a deep and comfortable place. KNOWING BEFORE YOU START what your goal is. I say this, because most people fall alseep while getting there. And your mind drifts and wonders... which is how you can tell your in a light state of hypnosis...

So, in a way, hypnotism is kind of like sigil magic... bypassing the conscious to get to the subconcious.

i've seen a couple of stage hypnotitsts, and they ask the audience to do certain things (like clasp their hands together, and ask you to imagine them sticking like that) to see whom is most suggestable. So... can only certain people be hypnotised?

I am talking about being hypnotised by one person, rather than more subliminal cues over time, because, as I understand it, everyone is susceptable to that, because the subconcious cannot pick and chose what it pays attention to. Is this correct?

Would you consider conditioning and aversion therapy as hypnosis? Or is that more a concious learning that gets imprinted on the hypothalamus?

P.S can you help me stop smoking, while keeping my appetite in check too?

reply to post by AngelaLadyS


How often and for how long would a person need to try to hypnotize themselves or does it vary between people? Would there be a benefit from continuing to hypnotize oneself?

Originally posted by Chewlip
So, in a way, hypnotism is kind of like sigil magic... bypassing the conscious to get to the subconcious.

i've seen a couple of stage hypnotitsts, and they ask the audience to do certain things (like clasp their hands together, and ask you to imagine them sticking like that) to see whom is most suggestable. So... can only certain people be hypnotised?

I am talking about being hypnotised by one person, rather than more subliminal cues over time, because, as I understand it, everyone is susceptable to that, because the subconcious cannot pick and chose what it pays attention to. Is this correct?

Would you consider conditioning and aversion therapy as hypnosis? Or is that more a concious learning that gets imprinted on the hypothalamus?

P.S can you help me stop smoking, while keeping my appetite in check too?

Well, it is bypassing the conscious filters to go strait to the subconscious (which, by the way, has MORE filters).

The hand clasp test and others is a good test for the hypnotist to see who will be most receptable quickly. Anyone that wants to be hypnotised (so long as he/she has the wear-with-all to count backwards from 10 to 1 and is not afraid), can be hypnotised. But alot of people are afraid... we have to deal with the fears first, then all goes well.

The subconscious can and does choose what it wants to pay attention to, but it pays attention to alot more than we realize consciously. That's why the 'back ground' stuff and advertising works so well.

Conditioning is like the 'classical learning' that animals/humans pretty much automatical learn from. Remember povlove (sp), the dog that learned to salivate at the ring of the bell? That is conditioning. We all do it to others and have it done to us every day - it's an action - reaction based learning. And the subconsious mind picks up on that way before the consious mind does. That's why we hypnotist have so much work to do. Say a woman cona't loose wieght. She don't consciously realize that the subconscious mind has put together the fact that her husband is less jealous and she's allowed out more, or that she gets into less trouble etc. There is ALOT of this going on in the subconscious mind on a daily and normal basis. And in hypnoisis we can give post hypnotic suggestions to do this as well - posative ones that is.

Adrsion therapy - some hypnotist do use this and it's NOT GOOD. Actualy, it don't work as well as possative reinforced sessions iether. Say I hypnotized you to taist all sugary foods as really horrible in flavore. Not only will the conscious mind see this as wrong and 'kick it out' after a while... but also, you'd be apt to challange it to see if it was really true. And if you tell your selff enough that soething isn't real / right, you will basicaly undo the suggestion anyway.

Not only that, but adversion therapy can be dangerous in some respects. Say the hypnotist uses this for a stop smoking session. Maybe he tells the client how sickly and bad he/she will feel if he/she don't quite smoking, maybe he even goes so far as to include a barage of symptoms (coughing and hard time breathing etc, maybe he insinuates that lung cancer will be the end result of a smoker that hasn't quite.
You can imagine the problems... 1st, the hypnotist hasn't done anything to help the client stop smoking, and second, the hypnotist has embedded in the clients mind these horrible things that can then really come to pass when the smoker doesn't stop.

LOL - I've been reading and responding line per line. Now, after that last paragraph you ask about smoking. LOL! But yes, smoking should always be done hand in hand with something that will keep the client from substituting food (or any other bad habit) for the ciggarette.

Do you live anywhere near the Arch (St. Louis)?

Originally posted by MBF
reply to post by AngelaLadyS

 

How often and for how long would a person need to try to hypnotize themselves or does it vary between people? Would there be a benefit from continuing to hypnotize oneself?

It would actualy be easier for you to use self hypnosis than it is for a hypnotist. It does vary between people, but giving it some time each day (I do this just before bed, and just after waking before I get up) - you can get there pretty quickly. I've taught people that almost immediatley saw alot of progress in their life, and others have 'tried too hard' and it's taken them longer. I like to do a session with those clients and give them a keyword and during a hypnosis session, bring them up, have them use the keyword and use self hypnosis several times, then take them back down and reinforce what they've used, giving them confidence to continue on their own.

reply to post by AngelaLadyS


I'm afraid I like in England, so a few thousand miles away :S

Have you heard of Derren Brown? I'm not sure if he's popular in America, but he does some amazing things. Not only hypnotism, but psychology and the like. His speciality is subliminal messages. This is how he "reads minds" or predicts things, by using psychological plants that go straight to the subconcious.

Sorry, that's a bit off-topic, but if you haven't heard of him, I suggest you check him out.

Heh, thanks for taking care of the thread, AngelLady--from what I've read, you're more informed on the subject than I am. However, I would contest your assertion that hypnosis can't be used as a mind control method--while it won't do beans on its own, and can't effect an unwilling subject, it's relatively easy to combine it with real "brainwashing" techniques if you're working on somebody who trusts you.
Take the Church of Scientology, for example--their "auditing sessions" are essentially the same blend of repetitive conditioning and altered-state induction that I described above. The modern auditor asks a battery of carefully-worded questions, and drills the subject until they can repeat the answers without hesitation. The effect, combined with the trust that the auditor cultivates between himself and his subject, could very accurately be described as a form of hypnosis; it ingrains the data into the subject's mind at a subconscious level, just like a conventional hypnotic suggestion.Coupled with the ever greater personal investment that the subject has in the organization, Scilon auditing is one of the most effective forms of brainwashing ever devised--though it's nothing compared to what they could do to you in Hubbard's day. Back in the 60s, the early Church used '___' instead of hypnosis to induce the altered state necessary for brainwashing--a technique copied by former member Charles Manson.

Originally posted by Chewlip

Have you heard of Derren Brown? I'm not sure if he's popular in America, but he does some amazing things. Not only hypnotism, but psychology and the like. His speciality is subliminal messages. This is how he "reads minds" or predicts things, by using psychological plants that go straight to the subconcious.

Sorry, that's a bit off-topic, but if you haven't heard of him, I suggest you check him out.

Derrem Brown is AWESOME! Not exactly what I'd want people to think of our proffession mind you, but he is great. He uses hypnosis, NLP and good old fashion magic tricks. He's a very good con man - very skilled at lots of things that can get him into much trouble. lol

I did a guild meet on him once... kind of used him as an example for a few things... very entertaining.

Originally posted by Makoto
... However, I would contest your assertion that hypnosis can't be used as a mind control method--while it won't do beans on its own, and can't effect an unwilling subject, it's relatively easy to combine it with real "brainwashing" techniques if you're working on somebody who trusts you.

I edited the quote above so I could respond in a point per point manor. I certainly can't answer completely and properly without getting my message booted for being too long... lol

First: Mind control has many features - general there is a pretty standard set of circumstances taking place (purposely or not) -you can really see the brainwashing taking place almost in a step per step fashion if you know what your looking at. (Love that 20/20 hind sight!) I had to do some work with that once (paper)... so many people bring up the 'brainwash thing' that we took a good look at it so we could give real info and people could see the difference between that and hypnosis or NLP. (After this post I'll post another on brainwashing that will run through the basics... you'll see that it is FAR from what we are talking about here.

You see, although you may be able to guide a person into faulse memories and such if your a 'bad guy' or not careful when doing a regression - you can't change a persons fundamental beliefs and thought structure, or even their bad habits without their willingness to change. Sure, I can suggest that when you wake up your right hand will be stuck to the arm of the chair untill I say the word pretty. But using that as a convincer or just for fun is nothing like asking a person to tell you the combination to their safe or asking them to rob a bank and bring the money back to you. A hand stuck to the chair is nothing that is against the persons beliefs, nor is it anything the subconscious mind would have a problem with. Sure, a thief might not be opposed to robbery, but he sure isn't going to be willing to bring you the loot! (You've probably seen some X rated stage shows where the people on stage start 'coming out of it' one by one as the show continues and gets more and more X rated. The reason is that at some point the hypnotist has crossed the line of what that person feels is 'ok' - at that point, the person comes up and is no longer under hypnosis.)

Now, COMBINING hypnosis with brainwashing... say you are brainwashing a person or group of people (*side note* it's easer to do the mass hysteria or mass illussion or mass emotion thing... people feed off each other and make the job easier)....
If you happen to be a hypnotist and are also somebody that feels the need to brainwash another... sure, you could hypnotise someone and make suggestions that the person would please you if they blank or blank. That would help in your efforts to begin changing the persons behaviors to coinside more with what you have in mind. But you can't use hypnosis to brainwash a person. It simply can't work because of the way the subconscious mind works. Once brainwashing has taken place, hypnosis can only help with certain behaviors or thoughts or feelings or triggers etc you are trying to change. (Did that help clarify things I hope? I know I repeated myself a few times there... maybe it's a subliminal thing. PSYCH! lol, just joking. I couldn't help myself.)

Second: About the church, Manson gang and constant suggestions. With the Mansons and these groups that call themselves churchs etc. These people begin with a need to belong, to fit in. They already have a desire to do and become a part of something greater than themselves. (In short, they have some real issues). And you take an already 'unhealthy' person mentaly and make them a part of a 'family' or group or something they feel secure in... they feel secure for the first itme in years or maybe in their life and guess what? That group is suddenly THE most important thing to them, it's what made their life worth (blah blah blah... you know where I'm going here. Just like the gang now days. Make the poor kids think they have nothing ith out their 'gang family' and that the gang cares more and provides something they can't get elsewhere - and thre you go - ideal set up.
The drill sargent Q & A - typical military garb there. Very effient when it comes to training - training the person that has already begun and been trained and they are now keying in on REACTION vs. responce to trigger elements they may come in contact with. For the most part, they sell more suggestive type tapes like these and cd's like this now than they do hypnosis cd's because the people can get the reinforcment without taking time out to get still, relaxed and do nothing for the 30 mints. or so they'd need to a session. (My mind is a blank - I'm trying to remember the words here... there's a lable for this and it's esscaping my memory).

This is getting long, I better put a stop to this one. I'll take a break and come back with a little more info on the brain washing for you - we'll use the 'CIA', governmental, 'POW', 'David Coresh(sp)', type typical brainwashing as a format.

Yes I have a question that I hope you can answer when you have a bit of time .
My question is what similarities does the nightly news personality share with a Hypnotist ? Is it the tone of speech and head and eye jesters , or is there more to it then that ? Also if you could point out some of the tactics used in advertising campaigns that are designed to plant suggestions in our subconscious I would greatly appreciate it .

[edit on 27-6-2008 by Max_TO]

Ok, on to the classical mind control (brainwashing)
Now first, it is true that NLP does make use of practical techniques to influance people, but not as a manipulation as in brainwashing. NLP and hypnosis elicits a desired responce, this is true.. but here is the big difference... it does NOT break down the psychological defenses to do so.

Now there is alot of declassified CIA material here, but I know no one here will use this in a negative or distructive or harmful manor. It will however shed some light on some relationship 'problems' I do believe. If there are spouces or BF or GF out there that feel this is a little too close to home, get help, talk - now.

Instead of a long drawn-out book type format that I usualy make you guys suffer through, I'll try to make it short and sweet and more of a list type fashion (ok, maybe a bit more here and there.)

Here are the major factors, the basics in the classical mind control (brainwashing).

.Isolation
.control of communication
.fatigue
.control of nessesities (food, water, rest) The CIA and KGB maximised
on this one)
.use the persons own criticism against him or herself
.bypass resistance on the conscious mind (can be done by hypnosis
overtly or covertly with stories and such. Basicaly - a highly charged
emotional responce (i.e. the trigger I was talking about in the last
post) ...***I think that is the part that you must have read somewhere***
.befriending the subject and becoming helpful and even kind (seemingly) -
it throws them off, shrugs off the critical attitude towards the handler.
They even become greatful! (which is why the rottem, mean, controling
spouse only has to be less than cruel than usual and possibly say a kind
word every now and again and the abused and controled spouse seems
happy with them.)
.a little surprise or upset of usual events (a day off so to speak) to throw
off the usual routine (takes away the security the person had
with 'routine' - routine is a security, even if it's a 'bad routine' full of
things that are hurtful or negative - it's comforting to know what's
happening or what's going to happen next. (***Note to moms, kids
need routine - it's makes them feel secure and loved***)
.creat a feeling of helplessness, uncertainty of what's expected - they'll
have a greater need and want to please the handler.

Now of course I didn't expand on these things - there's much to be said about each item I listed, but this is only a small part of how these things work - but you can see here how these things can be done in such a way on a daily basis (as in marriage or boss/employee etc) ... or in a situation like a lock downs (military, POW, jail, crazy guy "new age church-like" convent, Manson etc) or situations like convents and organizations that want to live apart from others for various reasons... a 'leader' emerges...
It can happen very easily without the person or person even being aware till it's so restraining and controling that it's just easier to stick with 'the routine' than it is to get out of the situation (if it is possible).

K - the little guy needs mom. Hope this is a good basic. But it's important to remember that each of these things can be done without mallisious intent, and can appear very normal. Take the first one, isolation. A couple begins to date. It's only been a week or so and suddenly the guy is there picking up the girl almost every day (they are geting very friendly, things are going well). All is still well, she's happy as is he. Then she happens to be out when he comes calling on her one night. He get's angry. They have a fight. But she's already 'in love' or don't want to call it quits on what might be a long term relationship. So she remodles her behavior... she's there every night or at least calls him to see if he's coming over before she leaves... to avoid a fight of course. Still all seems normal and she hasn't realized that she has changed her behavior (classical conditiong). This goes on for a while, and before you know it, it's completely normal in their relationship to be together every night - all the time. Still no problem as far as anyones concerned - because they are "in love" and couples in love do that right?
But that's not all folks. They talk on the phone ALL the time (not that that's uncommon). He calls every day, and if she don't answer or don't call - he isn't happy, a little ripple happens. If the line is busy when he calls - he wants to know who she's talking to etc... another ripple. Before you know it, she reports to him about who she talks to before he has to ask - before he has a chance to be unhappy. He don't like her talking to guys, of course. He don't like her talking to 'that single girl' who always wants her to 'go out with the girls'. ON and on we go....

This is just the begining, it took maybe a week or 2, a month at the most, to change this girls behavior. She went from seeing a large number of friends and talking to many people - to seeing and talking to pretty much just him. So how will she know that things are a little off when they get worse later? By then she'll have already been making excuses for her being unavailable to friends and family for so long, that they won't notice iether. Also, without someone to talk to about these things - it's like the frog in a pot of boiling water... start it out with cold water and increase the temp slowly and he don't even know he's being boiled to death until it's too late.

The next step in this imaginary situation would be controling who she sees and talks to. As you can see, it pretty much happens automatical with step number one.

reply to post by Max_TO

I'll come back and spend a bit more time later, there's alot to talk about here - good question.
NLP techs are often on staff - especialy for political speaches and debates etc. They often are consulted or hired to write the scripts for the more sensative issues. And advertisments are FULL of stuff to try to 'get ya', even things like colors they use!

But yes, there are alot of things they do - the way they talk and body movements etc - many are done for reasons such as keeping the public from noticing that they are reading from a prompts (move the head and the eyes don't appear to be reading line per line)...

And they are often given 'pointers' that if followed they do well - these pointers are indeed NLP body language and voice influx etc.

I forgot - I want to make it understood that NLP is a natural thing that all humans do. It's the connection that our minds forms with the things that happen around us. NLP came about because someone recognised this and studied it. We nowe understand it well enough to put it to good use. But most of the people you know that are good communicators and seem to get along well with everyone are generaly those who are naturaly using these techniques.

The news reporters - some 'have it' naturaly and are for that reason drawn to that field. Some look good on camera and must be taught.

There are many things that our subconscious minds pick up on that we don't consciously register. Such as eye movement. You can tell alot by looking at the eyes. When the puples that are dialated (and not drug or light change related) it is usualy because the person is seeing something he/she likes.
You can tell is a person is lieing or imagining something new or remembering something. You can tell if they are remembering a image or a sound or a feeling. So many things we know subconsciouly but don't know consciouly. This is what NLP is all about. Connecting the things we do outwardly with a conscious realization of meaning behind it.

It works for those anchor men and women and political angels because they are told to look this way or that way, make a certain hand gesture or tilt the head etc --- when they do this, your subconscious mind picks these things us as meaning "this person is telling the truth", or "this person cares" etc.

Very fascinating , I look forward to following this thread .

were can i find a good, effective hypnotist here in toronto?

...

reply to post by tankthinker


All hypnotist have different styles and prefferences. There are aot of great ones, but the important thing is that YOU like the person and tht the person listens to you first, then produces a session based on YOUR needs.... (Alot of them just read the same scripts for various problems for all the clients. It's true that it can work just fine, but the real good ones that really know their stuff learn from you exactly what it is that they can do to best help you and the best techniques as to how to do so.

Here's a refferal form for you at this link: Refferal form for certified hypnotist in your area

The link I just put above is for the NGH (national guild of hypnotist). Anyone on their list is certified and we all have to have had the proper training and we continue education for re-certification yearly. So if you get a person through them - your in good hands.

But you can always just look in the phone book. If you don't find something satisfactory, let me know and I'll make a few phone calls. We have some trainers up your way.

thanks a lot for the info

i also wanted to ask the estimated price for a session?

reply to post by tankthinker


Prices for a session can ranges from 50$ - 75$ in this area for the most part.
Of course there are those that like to charge 1500$ for a stop smoking package with several sessions, some who will charge 300$ and garantee your golf game to improve by at least 1 swing... there are those in every proffesion that try to take advantage.

Personaly, if I have to, I don't charge at all in order to get help to someone who needs it. But in some instances (smoking in particular), there is a corralation with fees and success. Basicaly, if you don't have to pay for it, then "you have nothing to loose" is the mind set internaly... nothing lost is what the mind says.

Even if it is only a 5$ fee, it can make a difference.

i was also wondering

is it possible to make someone fully believe in something 100%, like to fly for example?

(note: flying was just a top of the head example)