Is There any point to posting UFO videos?

Having recently posted a UFO video myself, I'm quite discouraged as to the response, that myslef, and other users have gotten in these forums. I doubt the purpose or validity of posting a video, as it seems the only reason they exist on the forums is to be examined and picked aprt until people can reasonably convince themselves that somehow the video is fake or edited.

The response I have gotten for my video has discouraged me from ever posting anything of interest again, regardless how much interest I show in it. I believe similar people who post thier videos on the site will feel the same.

Thoughts?

The attitude of debunking videos will change the day someone posts a video that's not a fake.

The reason why people debunk videos is simple: it's the only way to separate what's real from what's not. I think it's healty.

reply to post by hpsfl


I haven't seen your video. Do you have a link for the thread?

Not having seen it, I can't really make a judgement on why you feel that it was picked apart.

Look at it from this point of view. If somebody else filmed it, and presented it, how would you feel about it?

You were there, and filmed it, so you might be a little biased.

I just started a thread on this but everyone ignored it. So I'll post on your thread. I saw your video and read the thread and I completely agree with you. I think you have to understand that there are people on this site who treat it as their own personal CSI division. The videos people post are their cases - and their job is to prove that every one is a fake. Because so many videos come around, they've become somewhat snobbish about the quality of the video. If it's not difficult to prove fake, they act as if it's a waste of time and usually use the excuse of "it's a reflection" followed by a personal attack on the person and their story. If you can learn to ignore these people (literally - just press the 'ignore' button), you can keep the thread on topic.

I am not a believer. Nor am I a skeptic (or, as most people spell it here - a "sceptic"). I'm right in the middle, trying to figure out myself if we've been visited by UFOs. However unlike everyone else, I know that taking a picture of a UFO, if you are lucky enough to see one, despite all these advancements in technology, is an almost impossible task. And you are never going to get a crystal clear shot - as most of these things are trying not to be detected (hence why they'd be flying at night - and I don't care who you are - nobody will ever ever ever take a picture of a UFO at night that won't be debunked. You simply will not get a good enough shot).

So then it comes down to if you beleive the person's story. Unfortunately, 75% of the people on this board dismiss people's stories out of hand. Maybe it's because they're a*%holes, or maybe it's because they've just been burned too many times. What I don't like, is how as soon as one of them says something like, "it's a reflection off the window", that so many others treat it like gospel. Seriously, if there were an official debunking department of the government, 90% of their explanations would be "it's a reflection". To me, the reason this case is interesting is because of the "casual" nature of the situation. Two people nervously joking around (instead of: "OH MY GOD! THAT IS A UFO. DO *YOU* SEE THAT UFO?" "YES! I SEE THAT UFO"). A shot that isn't clear at all (if you wanted to make something up - it's a hell of a lot easier to create a UFO more "convincing" than this one). The imperfect nature is what gives it its authenticity.

I personally don't sense that you're the "make it up" type. You seem like a normal person who had a strange experience and you were quick enough to get a shot of it - and that shot is what it is. Not great because you're shooting out an airplane window at night.

So anyway, I should probably ask this question on the official thread of this subject, but what did this object look like? And how well could you see it with your naked eye? What was the closest feature you could make out? I find your sighting one of the more interesting I've seen on this board.

reply to post by hpsfl


My feeling exactly! I just read on this site for over a year, and joined as a member because I had a ghost picture that I expected to get some opinions on, instead I was accused of being a fake, told how it was photoshopped, not genuine, I stated that I KNOW the picture was genuine, I wanted to know if anyone had ever seen anything like it before, I am so glad now that the picture is buried in the archives of ATS, I don't want to be put down like that again!

Here's the link to the video in question:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

All I have to say: Do not give up.

It is just one or a group of people's opinions. Half the time I read but do not post replies because I know that it is pointless to argue with those people. Use the previous solutions given.


I will say this too, your video is not a fake, not a reflection, and the likes. It is real. As to what it is being filmed, in the distance, I can not say. This is not the place to discuss the video either, but just saying... don't take to heart what some on this forum say about a video you put. Stand firm, and think logically. A proper answer will come, eventually, and you will know it when it does.

reply to post by hpsfl

hpsfl, in my opinion your video IS definately interesting.
I've also sent you an U2U with my email address, to which you can send the original video.
Click here to check your U2U in-box.
Youtube's lossy compression creates distortions, bad pixellation etcetera everywhere, and this doesn't help us when we try to find out what we're looking at.
I know what you mean, please believe me. I, for example, have never blamed someone to have faked a picture or a video, except here .
Some people here scream "fake" having no clue what they are looking at,
but they are just a small part of ATS: everywhere you'll find people who think different and behave in different ways.
BUT
Wen we come across an UFO, the only correct approach is to rule out every possible terrestrial explanation, (sadly) hoax option included.
Your case, is still a UFO if you ask me. In my opinion you are not lying, and your video is interesting: i've found a match in the color sequence of the lights, but this is, at the status quo, a coincidence unless we will be able to explain HOW a reflection may be projected in such a way.
Basically, if you think that i'm convinced to have found a conclusive explanation, then you are wrong: i don't think so
And never give up


[edit on 19/4/2008 by internos]

Originally posted by hpsfl
Thoughts?

It all depends on what your expectations are. If you want us all to do handsprings and congratulate you on finally obtaining the "smoking gun" proof of alien life, then I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed. Because that's not what you did. Assuming you didn't fake it, unless you have something else to show for it, all you did was post an image of something odd that even you can't truly identify.

What do you want us to do with it? We can't experience what you did. We can't even give you money for it, not like in the old days. The only thing we can do is maybe try to pick it apart and see if it's something mundane that you misidentified. But even if we can't figure it out and offer a reasonable alternative explanation, then it's the same as it ever was... unidentified.

Other than that, all we can do is pat you on the head. Lucky you. You filmed a UFO. You get a cookie.

If I may be so bold, I can explain.
You see, we have several different types of people when it comes to this type of stuff.

1. People who are indifferent. When asked about the possibility of ufos or alien life on other planets, these people will say something like," Yeah, I dunno it's like, crazy. I don't even like to think about it. Those aliens are all prolly like creepy n' stuff. I thought E.T. was cute though. I totally woukd have taken him in.Did you hear Brittney, Paris, and Lindsey were
all caught naked together? That is so totally like them."
That was the female version. I hope. The male version goes something like this.
Ahemmm.
"Dude, thats some freaky $h!t bro. If some alien dude tried to take over my planet I would kick their freaky Alien @$$e$. Aint no alien gonna take over my planet. Dude, did you hear Brittney,Paris, and lindsey were all caught naked together? F**kin right dude. I would totally be in on that $hit.

2. People who don't belive and don't want to believe.
These people are most likely Christian or wrapped up in some other mind prison that will not allow even the mention of such thoughts or beliefs.
You will most likely hear something like,
" We are GODs chosen people and GOD doesn't make mistakes. If he did it right the first time then there is no need to keep making life on other planets.Plus if there was life on other planets, then why isn't it in the bible?" There is no point arguing with this sort of sound logic and reason.

3. And then there are people who believe but don't want to because it makes them feel uncomfortable.
These are the people who are on ATS. They are self loathing individuals. The are intelligent enought to come to the understanding that there must be life on other planets due to the shear numbers of other stars in our own Galaxy not to mention the Billions of other galaxys in the universe.
However, these people are uncomfortable with the actuality of other beings to have the ability to come and go as they please and are quite frankly,HATERS because they WANT soooooo despirately to have an encounter themselves and they are pissed that it hasn't happened to them.
And because it hasn't happened to them......well, it hasn't happened to you either.These people will justify anything so that they are allowed to remain in their little cocoons.

1. If you get a distant grainy pic of a UFO you can expect to hear something like " Why so far away? and that could be anything in the sky"

2. If you get a close up crystal clear pic of a UFO it will be torn apart even worse.These pics don't stand a chance.

3. If you get a distant grainy video of a UFO....see rule 1.

4. If you get a close up clear video of a UFO....see rule 2.

Basically these people DO NOT want to belive but they are tortured by their intellect. They cannot deny that these things are real but they must at least try. It doesn't matter if an alien sat down for an interview in front
of an H.D. video camera for an hour. It would be torn apart even worse.
Have you noticed the same phenomenon that I have??????
The clearer the shot, the worse it is picked apart...This stems from pure fear and nothing more.
A much wiser man than myself once told me.."ALL fear stems from the unknown." We fear what we are not familiar with and that is all there is to it. I hope this sheds some light on the problem for you.

Originally posted by Nohup

Originally posted by hpsfl
Thoughts?

It all depends on what your expectations are. If you want us all to do handsprings and congratulate you on finally obtaining the "smoking gun" proof of alien life, then I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed. Because that's not what you did. Assuming you didn't fake it, unless you have something else to show for it, all you did was post an image of something odd that even you can't truly identify.

What do you want us to do with it? We can't experience what you did. We can't even give you money for it, not like in the old days. The only thing we can do is maybe try to pick it apart and see if it's something mundane that you misidentified. But even if we can't figure it out and offer a reasonable alternative explanation, then it's the same as it ever was... unidentified.

Other than that, all we can do is pat you on the head. Lucky you. You filmed a UFO. You get a cookie.

This is the exact type of person I'm talking about. Everything about them is written right into their response. This is the particular portion of their reply I'm afraid you're stuck with when it comes to dealing with these kinds of people: "The only thing we can do is maybe try to pick it apart and see if it's something mundane that you misidentified." No, actually it's not "the only thing you can do." You can - gasp - maybe try to pick it apart and actually see if it *might be* an alien UFO. I know, unfathomable, right? That someone might try and find a positive explantion for the phenomenon? I know that's out there. Maybe even as out there as extraterrestrial UFOs. But believe it or not, it *is* actually an option.

This guy wasn't looking for handsprings. He was looking for a discussion that wasn't condescending - something you seem incapable of. It is possible to express your opinions on something and not come off as an a-hole.

reply to post by hpsfl


Your right my friend, what ever you put on here will be debunked, real or not!
its either to blurry or if its clear they'll say its someone with very good photoshop skills. you wont win.. They wont believe til an alien comes up and kicks them in the ass..

"The only thing we can do is maybe try to pick it apart and see if it's something mundane that you misidentified." No, actually it's not "the only thing you can do." You can - gasp - maybe try to pick it apart and actually see if it *might be* an alien UFO.

No, you can't do that. You can't because noone knows for a fact how do aliens and UFOs look like, although many will say otherwise. You can have an idea on what an UFO is, but it's not the same as knowing it. For instance, if I say to you the word "table", the image in your head will be pretty much the same as mine because we all see tables on a regular basis. But since tecnically there's no alien life officially recognised, you can't say that an alien looks like this or that and you know it's 100% sure. So, returning to the quote, the only thing an intelligent person can do is to try to identify what you see on a picture or video as something of this world. Why? Because that's all we know. But, if noone can identifying it, then you can start discussing otherworldy things.

There's something you aren't getting about debunking. A good debunking it's based on science. Someone thinks they know that the video/pic is fake or it's showing something mundane so they go ahead and try an experiment to proof the hypotesis. If the experiment is right, then the hypotesis it's true, and if it's not then the discussion should continue. Again, I'm talking about *good* debunking and not just saying "this is fake, move on" (unless it's very obviously a fake).

So, since debunking is a science, the results should be empirical. Meaning, the result will be the truth unless you have a different theory which you can prove with other experiment.

The problem is that many people expect to post a video of a dot and get replies such as "oh, this is very clearly a spaceship from another world containing extraterrestrial life which will most likely kill us all". That's not intelligent, and more importantly, it will get you nowhere. The only thing you can accomplish with that is that people will start calling you a nutcase which believes everything that comes near you. If you really want a disclosure and really want people to know there are life besides our, then you must start by putting aside media which is not showing alien activity. Otherwise, you'll have a great library of videos which any rational person would be able to debunk in a matter of seconds.

I had a look at the video that another member graciously supplied.

I don't know what to say, really, as you filmed it from a flight.

It is hard to make out whatever it is that you filmed, so I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. That means I am willing also to look at ohter peoples point of view.

Do you really know what you saw? I would think if somebody can come up with an acceptable explanation, you might consider it.

It doesn't mean I am down playing what you saw, but, somebody out there might have an explanation.

Don't you want to know the truth, about what you saw?

Originally posted by hpsfl
Is there any point to posting UFO videos?
...
Thoughts?

No! Posting UFO videos is a complete waste of time.

UFO Photos are a complete waste of time!

We need to move past this stuff. It should be accepted now that there is something going on. Anyone who posts this stuff are playing into the hands of those who wish to deny. The reason is that anything and everything can and will be debunked, it's very easy to do.

As a result, the field is cluttered with so much noise, crap and hoaxes, we'd never recognise it anyway.

Now, when I clicked on this thread I thought, "finally, someone gets it, UFO videos without support are not worth debating" How sad I was it was just some kid crying that he didn't get the amount of attention he "deserves"

Posting the typical 30 second or so UFO video with NO CORROBORATING back-up evidence to validate anything is a waste of time.

Like I have said a million times here, and I'm right about it plain and simple, there has to be more to it than just a video. Think about it.

You posted a typical BUNK UFO video of some kids on a plane with a camera. The obvious acting in the very first part is almost embarrassing to listen to. And there was nothing else to look into, no flight data, no faa records...hell, don't even know what airline it is or who the people are, passenger lists to check if any one of the other hundred or so people saw it and reported it....flight crew interviews.....you know, corroborating evidence. It seems to be going out of style in this quick-fix internet age that has done nothing but breed ignorance and kill common sense. Sorry your a casualty, it's not all your fault.

Look, I'm sorry you want to overlook common sense, reason and logic to believe in something so bad, and are all bent out of shape because this video was near and dear to your beliefs and it failed to blow our skirts up...but that’s life. And now you want to make a posting crying you got the wrong kind of attention you think you obviously deserve? Please.



This is part of why Ufology is hell bent on failure....

reply to post by hpsfl


Yes !! Always post them no matter who yells HOAX. You are gonna get those responses every time, but to find the truth you must look at both sides. We have some smart people here that will keep an open mind and try everything using science and theory together. Just like all the proven hoax videos, it makes me mad that people do that for fun but I have to watch them anyway because one might be the pot of gold someday. The same with people yelling hoax and fake, it comes with the territory. It's discouraging but if you want to find the truth then hell yes show the video to everyone including other websites and gather all the information from all the peoples theories and conclusion, then use your own judgment.

Originally posted by hpsfl
Having recently posted a UFO video myself, I'm quite discouraged as to the response, that myslef, and other users have gotten in these forums. I doubt the purpose or validity of posting a video, as it seems the only reason they exist on the forums is to be examined and picked aprt until people can reasonably convince themselves that somehow the video is fake or edited.

The response I have gotten for my video has discouraged me from ever posting anything of interest again, regardless how much interest I show in it. I believe similar people who post thier videos on the site will feel the same.

Thoughts?

Its sort of what should be done though....not nastily like some people do

The ony way to make the UFO topic credible is by closely analysing any videos or photos and rule out any other phenomenen before jumping to any conclusions. I know through my proffesion that there are weather phenomenen that are mistaken for UFOs and by pointing that out to people, it helps them no to make the mistake twice (well i hope )

Please keep posting, there are some of us out here that are interested in helping rather than calling hoax straight away

I think it makes the community look good that we don't just believe everything at face value, it shows we're objective and believe because there's evidence not because we need to believe.

I think there's a lot more fakes coming now that quad core and octl core processors are getting out there, and then you can always have dual or quad - quad core processors. It allows CGI to be pumped out quick enough to make fine details possible where as before it could take months for a single core PC working on a scene lasting 1 or 2 minutes, people just aren't willing to sacrifice that much time for a laugh.

It's difficult for me watching so many people fall for some of these frauds, I've got a BSe in comp science, my specialty is not graphics but rather network infrastructure, even so I had years in university where CGI related classes were always an elective, so I have a solid understanding of the whole process.. During my 4th year I think it was, in a graphics simulation related class there were a number of people actually creating UFO CGI for projects...

The drone pics for example, are extremely fake, I know a lot of people with more experience in CGI than me have already said that 1000 times but it still seems like people cling to it since they want it to be true so badly. That is exactly what we don't want, which brings me full circle to my original point.

From another perspective... it's also hard to get excited about a glowing sphere 500km away in the sky for the 475,000th time. I'm all for UFO vids but you seen one glowing orb at 500km, you seen them all. We need some new exiting footage to come along and get people riled up again like after Texas.

Originally posted by Radiobuzz
No, you can't do that. You can't because noone knows for a fact how do aliens and UFOs look like, although many will say otherwise. You can have an idea on what an UFO is, but it's not the same as knowing it. For instance, if I say to you the word "table", the image in your head will be pretty much the same as mine because we all see tables on a regular basis. But since tecnically there's no alien life officially recognised, you can't say that an alien looks like this or that and you know it's 100% sure. So, returning to the quote, the only thing an intelligent person can do is to try to identify what you see on a picture or video as something of this world. Why? Because that's all we know. But, if noone can identifying it, then you can start discussing otherworldy things.

There's something you aren't getting about debunking. A good debunking it's based on science. Someone thinks they know that the video/pic is fake or it's showing something mundane so they go ahead and try an experiment to proof the hypotesis. If the experiment is right, then the hypotesis it's true, and if it's not then the discussion should continue. Again, I'm talking about *good* debunking and not just saying "this is fake, move on" (unless it's very obviously a fake).

So, since debunking is a science, the results should be empirical. Meaning, the result will be the truth unless you have a different theory which you can prove with other experiment.

There are so many things wrong with this kind of thinking I don't even know where to begin. Actually, the real answer to how to approach UFOs is the opposite of your response. Because we're dealing with something potentially out of this world, all the normal ways of thinking should be thrown out. A new "open mind" not bogged down by a more typical scientific approach is what's needed.

I mean seriously. How dare you tell me or anyone else what they "can't think". Who are you to tell me I can't think something is an alien UFO?? Are you the thought police? Do I now live in a communist country? Just because I don't "know something" for sure, doesn't mean I can't theorize that it might be that thing. As far as you believing that there's no official proof of alien craft and therefore I'm not allowed to think that this may be one - well in my opinion, from a few of the cases I've read about/seen - there is proof. And therefore I CAN believe that this is a UFO. Are you saying that when people theorized that the world was round instead of a flat, they were all wrong because it hadn't been proven yet?? Huh??

You have to open your mind. Not be bound by all the laws of science in instances where the science we know may not apply.