The Chemtrail Myth

reply to post by goukilock


my spelling isn't helping my case, i know it sucks

Originally posted by goukilock
reply to post by OzWeatherman

 

I'm not going to get crazy upset or start calling people liars or nothin, thats not what i come to this site for, just discussion

but what makes you think all info about whats in the air is made available to the public? then they might as well tell us outright what they are doing.

if its being done, they wont tell us, and they will do what they cane for us not to know

and maybe that is speculative, but i go by what i see smell and taste, and notice any timing that fit with that.

Because I work for an organisation that does it

Weather balloons measure the temperature, humidity and pressure. Three things that are critical to forecasting cloud development and what weather is going to occur.

Next time I launch a weather balloon, I might take some photos of it being prepared and then launched

reply to post by OzWeatherman


okay , do that , then i could know about Australia , but that tells me nothing about my skies and what i see

no disrespect, truly

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
That ^^^ makes ZERO sense.

No, it makes perfect sense. If a skeptic gagged on fumes after a chemical spray would he be skeptical of chemtrails? No. Skeptics do not have personal experience with the topics they are skeptical of. This is called logic.

I suppose you would call me a skeptic because I believe that what we see are CONtrails.

Yes? Because again, that is the definition of a skeptic concerning chemtrails

And living on a military airforce base, I see theses trails - the very ones in the pictures posted here on ATS - almost every single day....
Yet, there is absolutely ZERO smell and ZERO chemicals falling down upon us.

First of all, you have no idea what chemicals are present unless you're doing soil and water samples. Are you? Because others have and they discovered heavy metals and signs of spraying...

So because you didn't smell anything weird or die of cancer is not a big strike against chemtrails...

Why the hell would they spray the very people who NEED to fly these jets and operate this base?

Again, there is no proof chemtrails are a weapon... that's not even the popular theory. Weather control is the main theory.

Maybe the pollution (from vehicles, business, etc) in New Jersey is bad and that is why they are gagging and smelling foul oders. Hmm. Ever think of that?

And the people in suburbs? Country areas? Those getting sick immediately after sprays? New Jersey is not the only one and it doesn't have anything to do with pollution. So no, I didn't think of that because it doesn't apply... like most of the rebuttals I've just replied to.

So, the reason why we are not smelling and feeling chemicals being dumped on us....is because they arent.

And the reason I am not seeing ultraviolet rays is because they do not exist!

Right?

Oh wait, they do exist. So yeah, that's a terrible take on skepticism.

Originally posted by goukilock
reply to post by OzWeatherman

 

okay , do that , then i could know about Australia , but that tells me nothing about my skies and what i see

no disrespect, truly

I could explain to you on how a contrail forms and why it spreads and persists, but I will only do that on request from another member. The explanation is formed using meteorology basics and some bits of thermodynamic laws

reply to post by OzWeatherman


listen, it's not about that, i get what a contrail is , i really do

but how can you tell me you know there are not heavy metals being dumped in the skies over New Orleans? it's not about the scientific principals of how weather works, it's about planes and the things that come out from them, and that substance then fogs the sky and falls to the earth, where i can smell and taste it.

i know i can't smell and taste contrails, so it's not a contrail

how about releasing a balloon over the West Bank Of New Orleans after one of these planes pass, equip it with things that can detect metal in the air, then tell me your expert opinion, and if i'm wrong, then i bow to you sir

otherwise, you can't tell me what they are doing over the skies of New Orleans

Originally posted by goukilock
reply to post by OzWeatherman

 

listen, it's not about that, i get what a contrail is , i really do

Maybe you can explain to me how you think a contrail forms and how a chemtrail forms then...I am all ears

how about releasing a balloon over the West Bank Of New Orleans after one of these planes pass, equip it with things that can detect metal in the air, then tell me your expert opinion, and if i'm wrong, then i bow to you sir

To determine chances of contrail formation, you dont need any cloud in the atmosphere, just humidity and very cold air. If there is metal in the air, the temperature and humidty sensors would go weird. I

otherwise, you can't tell me what they are doing over the skies of New Orleans

Im not, I am explaining what my opinion is just like you are explaining your opinin

[edit on 17/4/2008 by OzWeatherman]

reply to post by NewWorldOver


NWO, in your immediate reply to GreenEyed you tore apart her posts, with some rather contradictory 'sentences' in response....contradictory because on page two of this thread, you responded in a manner that seemed to indicate that you agreed that the 'chemicals' might possibly be hazardous (not an exact quote from you, of course -- just the seeming gist of your comments).

So, which is it? This is something many of us have pointed out, over and over and over...there seem to be two camps...'weather modification' or 'chemical spraying' (for some unknown purpose, conducted by the Military)?!?

Logical thinking caps on, please --- 'WX mod' as a 'theory'; stands to reason it would be done in daytime as some sort of UV 'protection'. Laughable, since one can get a terrible sunburn under an overcast sky just as easily as under a clear sky. Another possibility bandied about is the GW 'concept', as in, anti-GW. 'Theory' being, the goal is to increase the albedo of the planet, thus reducing the amount of infra-red radiation that filters into the atmospere, gets trapped, leading to the term 'greenhouse effect'.

Sticking with the 'WX mod' idea, how in the heck can a few hundred airplanes 'spraying' thin, narrow contrails possibly affect enough of the millions of square miles of the Earth's surface to make a difference? Ever seen photos from low Earth orbit? AND, when you see lots of contrails in the far Northern latitudes, during winter...when the Sun isn't even having much of a heating effect on that part of the globe, then what is the point?? AND, finally, commercial jets just DO NOT have equipment for this alleged 'spraying'....oh, with two, three or four exceptions....they are called ENGINES. Yup! Those derned hot gases mixed with residual unburned hydrobarbons, there's your 'spray' right there! Happened with heavy bobmbers in WWII, happens today.

Now, the concept of some sort of 'secret' chems...wouldn't you think they'd want to do something as terrible as that at night? EVEN if it is true, very doubtful (can't prove a negative) it would be done at a much lower altitude...like a crop duster, for instance. OR, the malathion spraying that happened in LA when I lived there....in the 1970s...because of a bad mosquito infestation...or ws it to kill Charles Manson? (getting woozy....must be the chemicals.....)

Finally, with bad chemicals, intended to harm the general population, you can't target very well, since the 'elites' and the active Military could get exposed too>>> I know!!! They are given an antidote. See, I just started my own Conspiracy Idea! I'm so proud!

WW



[edit on 4/17/0808 by weedwhacker]

reply to post by OzWeatherman


well, your right about that, this is just my opinion, i'm not a weather expert, and i'm just expaining what i see, what i see are huge plumes of something coming out of these planes , than same something stays in the air as the planes go back to the base, (at the same hight as when the plumes came out, but with nothing coming out as they return, even passing through the plumes as they ttravel back) why is it not consistant?

these planes almost look like they are in trouble from smoke on the first pass, then it gets skinnier, then they go back to the base when there is nothing trailing from them.

im not a scientist, but that is not a contrail, thats substance

well this has been a fun discussion but i hafta get back to work, but i'll check later for replys

good discussion, no matter your belief, just keep discussing

peace out yo

Originally posted by goukilock

 

listen, it's not about that, i get what a contrail is , i really do

but how can you tell me you know there are not heavy metals being dumped in the skies over New Orleans? it's not about the scientific principals of how weather works, it's about planes and the things that come out from them, and that substance then fogs the sky and falls to the earth, where i can smell and taste it.

i know i can't smell and taste contrails, so it's not a contrail

how about releasing a balloon over the West Bank Of New Orleans after one of these planes pass, equip it with things that can detect metal in the air, then tell me your expert opinion, and if i'm wrong, then i bow to you sir

otherwise, you can't tell me what they are doing over the skies of New Orleans

I think your scientific method is a bit out whack, you don't claim something as fact until someone else can prove you wrong, thats like arguing religion with someone!

- God's not real!
- Yes he is, he saved my dieing grandma from cancer, prove he didn't!
- Uhhhh... the chemo and the doctors did.
- Nope that's not proof, God did it, I win!

The chemrails myth to me still hasn't been backed by anything beyond personal opinion, even 'tasting the air' is a subjective opinion. I can tell you from living in Canada, pretty much all the air I've "tasted" from major US cities tastes like one chemical or another, I don't think that proves anything other than Al Gore is losing the fight against the evil do'ers of global warming lol.

The length of time, shadow effect, appearance of spaces, etc. all seem to be neatly taken care of... basically all of the arguments that include pics in favour of the myth I've ever seen are just contrails labeled as chemtrails like the author said here lol I always thought I was the only one that thought that was absolutely absurd.

I used to live in Calgary just off the path of a flight route to Calgary Intl airport. There used to be uncountable trails up there when it got cold and they'd stay for hours and hours... I'm sure they were spraying to keep Calgary at -45C so they can... err actually I can't think of a good reason they'd want that, maybe a chemtrail thumper knows?

[edit on 17-4-2008 by 1-Cent]

First off I would like to say that I understand what contrails are..
I have been documenting the trails over my house for the past few months now.
Here is one of many pics I took 4 days ago at 8 am...
Click it to see the whole image. (those are all trails.. no real clouds)


Most of the stuff you said is correct except...

A few months back one of my friends north of me told me that he witnessed a plane leave a black trail then another plane came in behind it and left a white trail to almost perfectly hide the black one. He is a very credible source. Not some conspiracy nut. I thought that was strange to say the least but didn't think much of it.

Anyways, a little after I took pic above I looked up and saw a black (actually semi-transparent dark gray to be exact) trail with a white trail merging with it to cover it up. I took a few pics. Here they are.. The camera zoomed in on the trees though so it is blurry. It starts below the white trail to form a "Y" with it.
Here it is
Here is an enhanced version
Here is the same one but zoomed out
Here is an enhanced version
Those pics dont really do much justice for what I saw.

Anyways.. the next day I get a call from a friend telling me he is looking at a huge black trail above him. He said he shot a pic of the trails above a store before he went in.. then when he came out there was a black line.

Here is the pic before he went in

Here is the pic after he got out

Here is a pic of it a few seconds later with sunglasses on the camera

Enhanced version


Then literally 10 seconds after I got off the phone with my friend my dad calls me. "Hey.. there is a black trail in the sky." he was 20 miles outside of town in the country and saw the exact same trail. (we confirmed it by the direction it was going.) Then after he gets off the phone with me his clients go to him "Do you see that black line in the sky???" (he owns a construction business.)

So.. that night I see a friend I hadnt seen a long time. We were talking and con/chemtrails came up. I tell him about the whole thing. He thinks I'm crazy and retarded. I get a voice mail from him the next morning "Umm... those trail things you were talking about are all over the place and there is a huge black one too."

The 2 I have pictures of are not shadows. They are trails.. I could see the one I took clearly and my friend and a guy he was with could clearly see it in the sky. Then on top of that.. my dad and his 2 clients saw it 20 miles away.

Please consider this... Honestly I would love for the trails to just be an accident but the fact that my skies are getting completely filled with trails and the occasional black one very suspicious.

Please open your mind a little..

Best case scenario.. The the government/nasa are being negligent and letting it happen.

Worst case scenario.. they are doing it on purpose. (I'm leaning towards this due to the recent black trails and a major increase in trails in the past week.)

Either way.. these are a detriment to our environment and it needs to be stopped.

Even if this is just the government just being negligent why don't you work to get them to stop instead of telling everyone "nothing to see here" .. Think about it, if they do stop then you are 100% right.

Peace

reply to post by goukilock


my spelling is not helping me look any more intelligent

Can you explain why the terminology of bill HR 2977 IH that was passed to congress in it's first draft had the following definitions.

B) Such terms include exotic weapons systems such as--
(i) electronic, psychotronic, or information weapons;
(ii) chemtrails;
(iii) high altitude ultra low frequency weapons systems;
(iv) plasma, electromagnetic, sonic, or ultrasonic weapons;
(v) laser weapons systems;

but in the final rewrite it had removed all such systems.

www.raven1.net...

Also there is a U.S congress authorised report on Global Warming & reducing the effects of it which states that the best option for geoengineering the effects of global warming, see the quote below.

"In Policy Implications of Greenhouse Warming: Mitigation, Adaptation, and the Science Bases conclusion, the N.A.S. found that the most effective global warming mitigation turned out to be the spraying of reflective aerosol compounds into the atmosphere utilizing commercial, military and private aircraft. This preferred mitigation method is designed to create a global atmospheric shield which would increase the planet's albedo (reflectivity) using aerosol compounds of aluminum and barium oxides, and to introduce ozone generating chemicals into the atmosphere."

This report was created in 1992 & released for public consumption in 2000.

www.lightwatcher.com...

reply to post by danman23


I have the exact same pictures....except these were left by F16s pretty low over my house in extreme negative degrees.

So, please tell me EXACTLY how your pictures are chemtrails and my are not. Because mine ARE contrails....and they lingered for a very long time...eventually disappearing. They look exactly alike






And here are some trails coming from an AWACK...just using this picture as a reference of trails coming from a jet.



And a jet leaving them as it flies by...and again, it lingered for a very long time



Please tell exactly how they are different?



[edit on 17-4-2008 by greeneyedleo]

Originally posted by OzWeatherman

Originally posted by SantaClaus

There are much easier ways of killing us people. Our water and food are already doing a damn good job, why spray inhalants? It is completely irrational, it would be VERY expensive and there are easier avenues.

[edit on 4/17/08 by SantaClaus]

Exactly....if I was going to poison someone effectively...the best thing would be to do it through a drinking water supply. Or through animal products, although vegetarians, vegans and the lactose intolerate may escape unharmed....and we couldnt have that

there doing that too. It's called Flouride.

The picture of the AWACK looks like it's dumping something, I can only guess that it's fuel. Was that happening over a populated area?
It's too low for contrails to exist & it looks like it's climbing, was it taking off or landing?

Edit - In fact it looks like exhaust to me, so if it is exhaust it's not exactly trails.

[edit on 17-4-2008 by mclarenmp4]

Originally posted by mclarenmp4
The picture of the AWACK looks like it's dumping something, I can only guess that it's fuel. Was that happening over a populated area?
It's too low for contrails to exist & it looks like it's climbing, was it taking off or landing?

How is it too low for contrails to exist? It was -45 outside....NEGATIVE 45 outside

Yes, the AWACK was climbing...it just took off...I live about 1mile from the flightline and see them taking off and landing

And I guess I should have clarified. I was not saying the trails from the AWACK were contrails. I was just posting it as a reference to the trails that come from jets. I will go back and clarify in my OP

[edit on 17-4-2008 by greeneyedleo]

reply to post by greeneyedleo


Ok.. first off.. they are not the exact same pictures.. in the first pic I posted there are over 15 trails in the sky and they stretch as far as the eye can see. But you are right. The white ones in my pics are the same phenomena as you have taken a picture of.

But no where in any of the pics you posted is a black trail.. I don't think you read my post thoroughly.

Also.. I am not saying I am absolutely sure there are chemicals in the trails.. actually I think all the white ones are actually regular water vapor formed trails but they are either (1) purposely flying the planes at a certain altitude to make them spread and persist or (2) just being negligent about it. Like I said before.. either way.. it needs to stop.

Edit: Another thing that is different about yours is that you said yours disappeared after a while.. Over my skies by the end of the 3 hour trail laying there were at least 50 trails in view that never disappeared and actually completely blotted out the sky for the rest of the day.



[edit on 17-4-2008 by danman23]

Originally posted by mclarenmp4
The picture of the AWACK looks like it's dumping something, I can only guess that it's fuel. Was that happening over a populated area?
It's too low for contrails to exist & it looks like it's climbing, was it taking off or landing?

Edit - In fact it looks like exhaust to me, so if it is exhaust it's not exactly trails.

[edit on 17-4-2008 by mclarenmp4]

Its not to low for contrails.

Greeneyedleo lives in Alaska where the surface temperature is much cooler than mid latitude places. This means that the cold temperatures we see at mid latitude heights are much lower where she lives so contrails can exist at a lower altitude....providing the humidity is right of course

Originally posted by goukilock
reply to post by OzWeatherman

 

Fact: i physically see chemtrails fog up the sky throughout the day after they pass

Fact: i don't see that when contrails pass over

I've seen both with my own eyes

unless New Orleans is not is isolated from your argument
I just can't buy anything your saying

Me too. I live close to New Orleans & Stenis Space Center in Mississippi. I've seen these things line the sky in the morning & by the afternoon these lines have spread out to cover the clear blue sky with a grey haze. What causes this?

[edit on 17-4-2008 by corusso]