The Chemtrail Myth

Originally posted by OzWeatherman

Originally posted by mclarenmp4
The picture of the AWACK looks like it's dumping something, I can only guess that it's fuel. Was that happening over a populated area?
It's too low for contrails to exist & it looks like it's climbing, was it taking off or landing?

Edit - In fact it looks like exhaust to me, so if it is exhaust it's not exactly trails.

[edit on 17-4-2008 by mclarenmp4]

Its not to low for contrails.

Greeneyedleo lives in Alaska where the surface temperature is much cooler than mid latitude places. This means that the cold temperatures we see at mid latitude heights are much lower where she lives so contrails can exist at a lower altitude....providing the humidity is right of course

Ah ok, I assumed incorrectly in that she was located some where mid america.
It's still seems to be quite low for contrails IMO, it looks to be in the region of a few 100 feet judging by the perspective in relation to the pole.
I would still say exhaust as it looks like it's taking off.

reply to post by mclarenmp4


I honestly dont know...and couldnt even begin to guess at what altitude it any of these jets fly at.

But, I agree that is probably what the trails are coming from it. I just wanted to show it as a reference to another trail coming from a jet, for whatever its worth *shrug*

[edit on 17-4-2008 by greeneyedleo]

reply to post by danman23


Thats definently just shadow that grey one

Next time you see a cumulus cloud check the base and it will be excatly the same colour in simlar conditions. The large covering of cirrostratus above the contrail is a good indicator that the sunlight is being obscured

If it's all to do with temperature and colder being more likely to cause persistence, how come I didn't spot many at all over the winter? I have actually noticed contrails persist on warmer/nice days. The bluer the sky, the faster I can expect to see a trail persist.(Maybe contrails are more likely to persist on a warmer day or the upper atmosphere isn't effected by down here?) I'm trying to be open minded here but basing your arguments on what some 'chemtrailers' believe just isn't convincing me.

Yeah theres lots of sides to the story, thats how conspiracy's usually are(no planers.) Where I stand I am not fully off the fence. Nor do I have the slightest idea of what they would be trying to accomplish, know one would know if it were true either.

Originally posted by corusso
[
Me too. I live close to New Orleans & Stenis Space Center in Mississippi. I've seen these things line the sky in the morning & by the afternoon these lines have spread out to cover the clear blue sky with a grey haze. What causes this?

[edit on 17-4-2008 by corusso]

Wind dispersion

The upper winds where these occur can be quite strong. Especially within the jet stream where winds can reach 200mph so its likely to happen providing the air stays moist enough

reply to post by mclarenmp4


mclaremp, what you're seeing on the 'AWACK' are the wingtip vortices.

Yes, the airplane is climbing, and yes it fairly low, not sure if it was zoomed in the camera, but based on the telephone pole in the foreground I'd say it was a little zoomed-in (2X? 4X?) Based on that, I'd say the jet was between two and three thousand feet. This is just a guess, based on years of observing airplanes, and being cognizant of the relative size of the old B707s....which is the original platform for the KC-135 AWACS.

In particulary high relative humidity conditions, and with the sun at the correct angle, relative to the viewer, the evidence of wingtip vortices can be observed, since as the air is disturbed by the wing, and air at the wingtips spirals up from below to the top, there is a slight compression effect locally...thus, air that is 'saturated' with water vapor will no longer be able to hold the 'invisible' vapor, and some will condense out as atomized water droplets. This water will evaporate fairly quickly, again depending on the prevailing humidity.

High-altitude contrails are very small ice crystals...just as cirrus clouds are composed of small ice crystals.

For the aviation buffs (and meteorologists) out there (I don't think I've seen anyone point this out yet) there is something called the Adiabatic Lapse Rate, something learned in 'Aviation Weather 101'. It assumes a 'standard atmosphere', denoted as 29.92 inches/mg at Sea Level (1013 millibars). Then, it supposes a default of a temperature drop for every 1000 feet vertically of 3degrees F/ 2degrees C, starting from the 'standard' Sea Level temp of 59degrees F/ 15degrees C.

So, in this scenario, the 'freezing level' would be reached at 7,500 feet.

Naturally, the real atmosphere varies greatly, based on higher/lower pressure, temperature at the surface (determined mostly by season, but a Cold/Warm Front can certainly change things for a while) and various chaotic mixing, localized. The uneveness of the Earth's surface, specifically the various reflective or absorbative natures of the surface it soaks up the Sun's infra-red causes 'thermals' since the lower layers of air are alternative heated, or not heated, by proximity to the ground.

Sorry it got so long 'winded' (pun intended)

--WW

[spell]

[edit on 4/17/0808 by weedwhacker]

OzWeatherman can you explain what I mentioned in my post on page 3?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

We have a government sponsored report on mitigating the effects of global warming using geoengineering in 1992 & U.S congress 1st draft mentioning the term chemtrails.

So they certainly had it as an option in 1992 & a lot can be done in the space of 7 years when they were 1st mentioned on Art Bell's show.

EDIT - Weedwhacker thanks for the explanation it was very well put.


[edit on 17-4-2008 by mclarenmp4]

reply to post by OzWeatherman


First off.. there are no clouds in the pic.. those are all trails. Secondly.. it is not a shadow, I saw it with my own eyes.. I wouldnt be here telling you guys this if I wasn't 100% sure. That pic isnt very good though so I understand...

How about the ones my friend took though?? Please.. I know you guys are very well informed on contrails and all that.. but please just open your minds a little.. we have been getting completely covered with white contrails for the past few months at least once a week. Then for the past 4 days our skies have been completely filled with trails with one black trail being spotted each day.

PLEASE OPEN YOU MINDS AND YOUR EYES.. read my first post thoroughly... Why dont we all team up here and do something about this. You have to at least agree that even if these are 100% just water vapor trails they need to be stopped. Everyone concerned with this phenomena should work together to get this stopped or at least get some answers.

Peace

[edit on 17-4-2008 by danman23]

Originally posted by Bumr055
If it's all to do with temperature and colder being more likely to cause persistence, how come I didn't spot many at all over the winter?

I have actually noticed contrails persist on warmer/nice days. The bluer the sky, the faster I can expect to see a trail persist.(Maybe contrails are more likely to persist on a warmer day or the upper atmosphere isn't effected by down here?) I'm trying to be open minded here but basing your arguments on what some 'chemtrailers' believe just isn't convincing me.

Yeah theres lots of sides to the story, thats how conspiracy's usually are(no planers.) Where I stand I am not fully off the fence. Nor do I have the slightest idea of what they would be trying to accomplish, know one would know if it were true either.

Its all about to do with temperature in the upper air. Just because it is warm on the surface doesnt mean it is warm upstairs. Temperature decrease with height (until it reaches the tropopause of course). Clear air is better for contrail development as the chances of saturation are higher.

not sure if this helps be here goes

www.youtube.com...

I`ll see what else is out there to show.

the only thing that was not correct that I could tell was
when they said that contrails evaporate quickly.
Implying that all contrails evaporate quickly.
(which I realize now is not accurate)

reply to post by OzWeatherman


so?? I SHOULD have seen more trails in the winter? I'm well lost now.

EDIToes that invert or something in the winter

Edit: persistent trails I should have said, I seen many short contrails.
[edit on 4/17/2008 by Bumr055]

[edit on 4/17/2008 by Bumr055]

Originally posted by Bumr055
reply to post by OzWeatherman

 

so??

I SHOULD have seen more trails in the winter? I'm well lost now.

EDIT

oes that invert or something in the winter

Edit: persistent trails I should have said, I seen many short contrails.
[edit on 4/17/2008 by Bumr055]

[edit on 4/17/2008 by Bumr055]

No, not necessarily. Its hard for me to say because we live in two seperate climates, but I can say almost 100% that contrail development does not increase or decrease seasonally. It may also depend on flight paths of planes, obviously if they arent flying near you, you wont see them

Humidity levels in the upper atmosphere do not reflect humidty levels in the lower atmosphere. So while you may have a cold wet winter...it may be very dry aloft. In summer, it mau be dry at the surface but very moist aloft

Danman, I read your post. The black trails are unexplainable. The contrail theory does not work for your picture... this is very eerie.

To try and explain those lines as shadows is totally preposterous... to explain them as contrails: impossible.

I have been aware of chemtrails for a while but these black lines are very unsettling and have obviously been implemented only recently.

Seriously, this is the topic to discuss now. Whether or not the skeptics believe in chem-trails these black lines are seriously ominous and we need to know what the hell they are doing leaving these things in our skies...

Thank you for sharing your pics and making me aware of this.

reply to post by OzWeatherman


Well, thanks for the info
Odd that I can't recall any persistent trails over the winter(I'm always looking at the sky) I latest one I saw was today but it's getting much warmer. None I can think of until before winter.

I couldn't really say if there was a change in flight activity but there didn't seem to be much of a difference but I could be mistaken. I did see allot of planes with short trails and recall a quite long 'DNA' trail one but it faded in less then a minute.

EDIT: I have nother question I was just pondering... If I went up where there was persistent contrails(in a jet pack or something, use your imagination) and exhaled, would me breath persist?

[edit on 4/17/2008 by Bumr055]

Originally posted by psychedeliack
reply to post by OzWeatherman

 

thanks fer that link, the one pic that looked similar was the one of Atlantis shuttle shadow, except it would have been a bit different. Im sorry to come with such claims without picture evidence, I really appreciate your help.

I just cant stand this conspiracy, because the intelligence level of its supporters varies from scientific, to blind faith, leaning a bit heavy on the blind faith sector. All in all, Im usually left out of the experience crowd, and I really wish I never saw what I did, I could just go about my day and not think about it, but other people keep bringing up the damn chemtrail part of it and Im quagmired all over again.
Peace be with you weather man!

Ok, I think I got it now

Is this what you were talking about

www.atoptics.co.uk...

reply to post by Bumr055

EDIT: I have nother question I was just pondering... If I went up where there was persistent contrails(in a jet pack or something, use your imagination) and exhaled, would me breath persist?

That is really an ineresting and great question!

I know, one liner. But I just wanted to let him know!

reply to post by NewWorldOver


You're welcome.. and THANK YOU!! I thought nobody cared..

I see one way in getting some answers is to use this..
From Globe.gov:

"Clouds are the largest variable controlling Earth's atmospheric temperature and climate. Any change in global cloud cover may contribute to long-term changes in Earth's climate. Likewise, any change in Earth's climate may have effects on natural resources. Contrails, especially persistent contrails, represent a human-caused increase in the Earth's cloudiness, and are likely to be affecting climate and ultimately our natural resources.

Student observers can collaborate with scientists by observing contrails in their area and reporting on the amount and type of contrails present. The results could help atmospheric scientists determine the atmospheric conditions when persistent contrails form and thus help them predict where they will form and possibly assist air traffic managers in planning different flight-paths or altitudes to avoid contrail formation."

I was thinking we can call them out.. "You started a program to stop it from happening back in 04 but nothing has been done. If anything it has gotten much much worse and we are seeing black trails.. Why?"
That calls them out for being negligent and they would have no choice to stop the trails. Unless it is a black ops program.. they wouldn't stop and we would have proof.

What do you think? Any other ideas?

Peace

[edit on 17-4-2008 by danman23]

reply to post by NewWorldOver


Dude, NWO! I have frequently seen shadows of contrails! It is totally depend on the relative angle with the Sun, from your point of view.

If we are flying over an 'undercast' (the opposite of an overcast....just a large solid expanse of alto-cumulus) we can see the shadow of other people's contrails. Heck, if you fly enough, even from the passenger windows, you can sometimes see your own contrail's shadow!

So, please try not to tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about...I suggest you go learn to fly, and see for yourself...

WW

reply to post by weedwhacker


Haha.. WW... first off he wasnt talking to you. Second off.. Take a look at the pics I posted. I know you already said you cant see the black trail in the first ones I took. (Understandable.. its blurry) But take a look at the second set my friend took.. and read my post. Its undeniably a black trail in the sky. There is no way its a shadow.. its common sense. For a shadow to be there it needs something to be cast on. That black trail is in the middle of the blue sky.
You are missing the whole point anyways.. you admit there are massive amounts of contrails in the air right? Well the government knows it is a horrible for our environment and know how to stop it.. (tell the planes to fly at different altitudes) but they do NOTHING... Chill out... and OPEN YOUR EYES

Peace

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
reply to post by Bumr055

 

EDIT: I have nother question I was just pondering... If I went up where there was persistent contrails(in a jet pack or something, use your imagination) and exhaled, would me breath persist?

That is really an ineresting and great question!

Burnr....you could exhale only once, at 30,000 feet....because you would be unconscious in just a few minutes. 'Time of Useful Consciousness' is, depending on your health, about 60 seconds (approx) and diminishes greatly the higher you go. In a two-pilot airplane, when one is out of the cockpit above 25000 feet (FL 250) the other is required to don and wear the O2 mask, just in case (unlikey) of a rapid decompression. Above FL430, one must always wear a mask. At certain high-altitude airports (over 10,000 feet) one must wear the O2 mask,pre-beth for about 30 minutes prior to take-off, and wear it until the cabin presure drops below 10,000 feet.

You can check FAA regulations, look under 'Part 121'

WW

I know, one liner. But I just wanted to let him know!