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Jesus & Lucifer one and the same???

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posted on Apr, 7 2008 @ 02:03 PM
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I'm Curious to know what people think about this......

What does it mean?



Jesus is Satan - So Says the Bible

Now many know Lucifer as another name for Satan, or Satan's name before he rebelled against God and was cast out of Heaven. Now the Bible has very little to say about Lucifer but in less than five minutes I will show that Lucifer is in fact Jesus by what the Bible has to say about him.

Alright the english 'Lucifer' appears in the Bible, King James Version only, once in Isaiah 14:12...


Quote:
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

All other versions of the Bible do not use the word 'Lucifer' but 'day star', 'son of dawn' or 'morning star' in Isaiah 14:12. To find out why we look to the Latin Vulgate version of Isaiah 14:12....


Quote:
quomodo cecidisti de caelo lucifer qui mane oriebaris corruisti in terram qui vulnerabas gentes

The English translation simply took the latin 'lucifer' and capitalized it to make 'Lucifer'. The latin 'lucifer' is found in the Bible twice, the other passage is 2 Peter 1:19....


Quote:
et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem cui bene facitis adtendentes quasi lucernae lucenti in caliginoso loco donec dies inlucescat et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestris

This time 'lucifer' was translated into english as....


Quote:
And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.

So once the latin 'lucifer' is translated to 'Lucifer', another name for Satan, and the second time its translated to 'morning star', so who or what is this morning star? The 'morning star' appears twice in the KJ Version of the Bible, keeping in mind the KJV is the only version that has the english 'Lucifer' translation, in Revelation 2:28 and in Revelation 22:16 which reads....


Quote:
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Jesus clearly calls himself the 'morning star' or 'Lucifer'. So if Lucifer is Satan, which the majority of Christians will say, then Jesus is Satan as well.


www.thechurchofgoogle.org...

[edit on 4/7/2008 by XcLuciFer]




posted on Apr, 7 2008 @ 02:31 PM
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Lol, sorry, but could we see what the actual translations of those Latin phrases say in english?
Where in the Bible are they as well?
And why is it that Yeshua so many times casts out demons and satan tempts Him? Did He tempt Himself? You gotta be kidding me.
Do a little more research, it sounds like you just copied and pasted something you found on the internet, I'm not say that's what you did, I'm just saying that's what it sounds like.



posted on Apr, 7 2008 @ 02:43 PM
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Originally posted by jimmyjackblack
Lol, sorry, but could we see what the actual translations of those Latin phrases say in english?
Where in the Bible are they as well?
And why is it that Yeshua so many times casts out demons and satan tempts Him? Did He tempt Himself? You gotta be kidding me.
Do a little more research, it sounds like you just copied and pasted something you found on the internet, I'm not say that's what you did, I'm just saying that's what it sounds like.


LOL all the info you asked for is already there. Please Read it again.....

[edit on 4/7/2008 by XcLuciFer]



posted on Apr, 7 2008 @ 02:46 PM
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For all that don't know KJV of the Bible was translated from The Latin Vulgate...



posted on Apr, 7 2008 @ 02:50 PM
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Unfortunately, the symbolism of Lucifer, Venus, the morning star, light beings, etc., are all so old and convoluted that it's easy for them to get all mixed up. Like equating Imperial Rome, the Nazis, and the United States because of the eagle symbolism.

If anything, we should equate Jesus with Venus, since they both represent a morning star and are associated with love. Both are offsprings of the prime deity. A couple of symbols associated with Venus/Astarte are the dove and the star within a circle. And they both end with "-us."

It's also curious that the crucifixion and burial (planting?) of Jesus coincides with very Venusian spring fertility festivals around the vernal equinox, when the world is "reborn."

And I bet if I dug around a little more I could find a lot more symbolic linkages between Jesus and Venus. So are we going to say that Jesus was female?

Hmmm...


[edit on 7-4-2008 by Nohup]



posted on Apr, 7 2008 @ 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by jimmyjackblack
Lol, sorry, but could we see what the actual translations of those Latin phrases say in english?
Where in the Bible are they as well?
And why is it that Yeshua so many times casts out demons and satan tempts Him? Did He tempt Himself? You gotta be kidding me.
Do a little more research, it sounds like you just copied and pasted something you found on the internet, I'm not say that's what you did, I'm just saying that's what it sounds like.



Keep in mind I'm asking for opinions here, no need to get all defensive, It is in fact something I read and I'm curious to know if anyone has ever thought or paid any attention to this.



posted on Apr, 7 2008 @ 02:54 PM
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Well He did have long hair and wore a dress.
Of course I had long hair at one time and have worn a dress as well



posted on Apr, 7 2008 @ 02:56 PM
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reply to post by XcLuciFer
 


I'm not really getting defensive, I'm just saying you might wanna do a little research.
Also are you in anyway a Satanist? Just curious and are you affiliated with any "religion"?



posted on Apr, 7 2008 @ 03:05 PM
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Originally posted by jimmyjackblack
reply to post by XcLuciFer
 


I'm not really getting defensive, I'm just saying you might wanna do a little research.
Also are you in anyway a Satanist? Just curious and are you affiliated with any "religion"?


Why do you say I have to do some research......... What makes you so sure that you aren't the one that needs to read a little more. No I'm not a Satanist and I'm 2 smart to be affiliated with such a tool as Religion. How do you explain the above.

[edit on 4/7/2008 by XcLuciFer]

[edit on 4/7/2008 by XcLuciFer]



posted on Apr, 7 2008 @ 03:17 PM
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since there must always be a balance of good and evil it could be possible that "Jesus's" ID contained both that of the Father, the path of light GOD and that of the fallen Son.

You therefore you have the praised Son for following in his Fathers footsteps and the fallen Son who has besaken the Father and challenged his authority over man.

This manifestation in the ID represents the good and bad in all people.

The Bible teaches you a path to root out the bad and to follow in the path of the light to praise the Father.

Jesus the Man therefore could have been Anakin Skywalker, powerfully divided due to internal conflict taking action even when he knew it was not right. Such as killing all the Sandpeople after his mother died in his arms.

Jesus the savior therefore is not Lucifer

Lucifer the fallen Son is not Jesus the savior.

Jesus the man a perfect creation of GOD however could have equally been either being of perfect balance and harmony with GOD.

In the end the "Lucifer" ID was cast down, when Jesus the man choose self sacrifice on behalf of mankind, thus giving himself as the ultimate sacrifice to the Jesus the savior ID for all of eternity and thus earning his rightful place at the right hand of GOD. The perfect creation self sacrificed for the sake of the imperfect who had yet to be created. Denying the Lucifer ID the chance to be passed down.

The return of the Jesus ID and Lucifer ID relies on another roll of probability with whoever the new host is... Should they let Lucifer take control then the Anti-christ will manifest into this world through this persons actions until such time as the total weight of what they have done drags them down into a bottomless pit of despair who's only release is their own physical destruction. (maybe they nuke themselves ?).



posted on Apr, 7 2008 @ 03:18 PM
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well i say its a good analysis,

i have often pondered the thought that Lucifer himself isnt bad, if you really look at the stories he has done nothing evil, yet god brought plagues, floods, death genocide etc.

who looks like the tyrant now...god



posted on Apr, 7 2008 @ 03:22 PM
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reply to post by XcLuciFer
 


Well let's see, your bring up a topic that would denote the Holiness of Christ, plus you have a Satan, Demon looking thing as your pic, there you have it the reason for my asking. You seem a little offended that I would ask you such a thing, no need to get offened, it's only a question.

Also, I've done a ton of research and you never answered my questions from my first post. I study the bible a LOT (it takes up a lot of my personal time). I would like to know if what you wrote is from a website though, it seems like I've seen it somewhere before.



posted on Apr, 7 2008 @ 03:30 PM
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Originally posted by jimmyjackblack
reply to post by XcLuciFer
 


Well let's see, your bring up a topic that would denote the Holiness of Christ, plus you have a Satan, Demon looking thing as your pic, there you have it the reason for my asking. You seem a little offended that I would ask you such a thing, no need to get offened, it's only a question.

Also, I've done a ton of research and you never answered my questions from my first post. I study the bible a LOT (it takes up a lot of my personal time). I would like to know if what you wrote is from a website though, it seems like I've seen it somewhere before.


OMG!!! Have you not read my post I've already stated that it is something I read. The translations and verses of the Bible that are being discussed is in the First post. I don't take offence to your question however, can you plaese stick to the topic and explain why you feel the post is false? Please be Objective, I'm not trying to defile your God.

[edit on 4/7/2008 by XcLuciFer]



posted on Apr, 7 2008 @ 03:42 PM
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Some Light on Lucifer
By Ina Belderis
[Unless otherwise indicated, all Bible quotes are from the New Oxford Annotated Bible (New Revised Standard Version).]
Is there any difference between Lucifer and Satan? Westerners generally would say they are one and the same. Especially those in fundamentalist Christian circles consider Lucifer an archangel who fell from grace and was thrown out of heaven because of "sinful pride." His "sin" was thinking he was equal to God and rebelling against Him. This rebellious angel is known as Satan, Lucifer, or the Devil, who tempts us to do evil. Supposedly, one of the most evil things Lucifer tempts us to do is to think that we are God. So those who believe in the essential divinity of all life are often accused of committing Satan's sin, and of being under the influence of Lucifer. Where do these ideas about Satan and Lucifer come from? Is there a biblical basis for them?

Lucifer means lightbringer, from the Latin lux "light" and ferre "to bear or bring." The word Lucifer is found in only one place in the Bible -- Isaiah 14:12 -- but only in the King James and related versions: "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! . . ." The New Revised Standard Version translates the same passage as "How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, Son of Dawn!" In other translations we find: "O shining star of the dawn!" (Moffatt) or "O morning-star, son of the dawn!" (Hebrew Bible). The King James Version is based on the Vulgate, the Latin translation of Jerome. Jerome translated the Hebrew helel (bright or brilliant one) as "lucifer," which was a reasonable Latin equivalent. And yet it is this lucifer, the bright one or lightbearer, that came to be understood by so many as the name for Satan, Lord of Darkness.

In Isaiah 14 the prophet is taunting the king of Babylon: "In the figurative language of the Hebrews, . . . a star, signifies an illustrious king or prince . . . The monarch here referred to, having surpassed all other kings in royal splendour, is compared to the harbinger of day, whose brilliancy surpasses that of the surrounding stars" (A Cyclopedia of Biblical Literature, John Kitto ed., 3rd ed., J. B. Lippincott and Co, Philadelphia, 1866, 2:857-8). There are those who claim that the real entity addressed in this passage is Satan, but there is no evidence for this. On the contrary, Isaiah (14:16) says: "Is this the man who made the earth tremble, . . . ?" and (14:18) "All the kings of the nations lie in glory, each in his own tomb; but you are cast out . . ." These seem clear references to a man, the king of a nation, not an archangel.

www.theosophy-nw.org...



posted on Apr, 7 2008 @ 04:19 PM
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Gee wiz, I already have been sticking to the topic, you're the one who went off in left field, then I replied to what you said and asked a question, your waaay too sensitive, there only questions, not attacks.
Also, you keep avioding my questions from the first post, why do you keep avioding them?



posted on Apr, 7 2008 @ 05:15 PM
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Jesus and lucifer are the the two polar opposites of the whole. Jesus represents the answer. Lucifer represents the question. The whole represents God.



posted on Apr, 7 2008 @ 05:25 PM
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reply to post by jimmyjackblack
 


Ok what is your Question?



posted on Apr, 7 2008 @ 05:39 PM
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I believe (reference from my dreams, internal being and etc.) that Jesus was against religion. He had to travel the world in some way and discovered what happens to Judaism (with high priest who controlled riches, just like today btw) if the world is led by a tyrannical leader(s) that always want riches/money to control the world.

Lucifer is not the devil. the devil is usually being another person doing everything to make you become their slave. Lucifer and Jesus were two forces that fought against the preachings of today. Lucifer defied God as to Jesus defied religion, both on the same path but opposite force (Yin and Yang). Now i wouldn't believe Jesus is the Jesus whose in the bible, but he was a man who fought against this claim and is the man on the cross. The cross in Christianity and Catholicism is showing the people that "we"(dunno who, Romans, Judaism priests, someone else?) beat "him"...therefore today we are all in war and in question to what's really going on.

I dunno but praying to a cross that murdered Jesus or the man who fought against bad claims maybe give us spiritual strength but i think its something that I or you must uncover the world to...i mean look at the world, people are suffering and you can either A) do nothing and pray B)Do something lawfully and eventually fail or C) Do something unlawfully and the media destroys your true story...and thats our choices today...

thats what i think...



posted on Apr, 7 2008 @ 06:00 PM
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reply to post by jimmyjackblack
 


Just to clarify and keep this on track, I believe your first two questions were answered in the initial post, the location of and english/latin translations were posted as follows.

(As posted by XcLuciFer, edited to make uniform)

Isaiah 14:12

English: How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Latin: quomodo cecidisti de caelo lucifer qui mane oriebaris corruisti in terram qui vulnerabas gentes


and then:

2 Peter 1:19

English: And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.

Latin: et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem cui bene facitis adtendentes quasi lucernae lucenti in caliginoso loco donec dies inlucescat et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestris


It seems that the OP is simply calling into question why lucifer is translated in different ways in these two passages, most strikingly in a way that Jesus is referred too later on.

I believe the question that was not answered was this:

(posted by jimmyjackblack)


And why is it that Yeshua so many times casts out demons and satan tempts Him? Did He tempt Himself? You gotta be kidding me.


As for that, I can only guess that it was not adressed since the op is referencing lucifer and not satan, but I'll let the op take that question.

Interesting topic, I've never given it much thought before, but it is thought provoking. it does seem odd that they would translate lucifer to a name referring to jesus later on.



posted on Apr, 7 2008 @ 06:14 PM
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reply to post by XcLuciFer
 


Congrats to you for getting out of the box! It is a little difficult to determine what the actual truth could be. It was easy for words to be mistranslated. Remember the KJV Bible was just a version - not a translation. (I used to know exactly how many mistakes are in that version, but don't now) There are thousands of mistakes. Think how many hands that Bible went through before it met with King James approval. And...the few times it has been translated from the 16th - 17th century English (which is much more complicated) to the slightly more decipherable English it ended up being.

I checked with all my Bibles and the KJV was the only one referred that way. Think too, it may be a more familiar term in heaven speak! It may not be so literally applied to Jesus - "Son of Morning etc." I believe them to be a family, after all. (Read my thread, "Is the Bible Part of a Great Conspiracy" - you might enjoy it!)




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