Ron Weinland

Just who was God talking to when He said "Let US make man in OUR image"? Was God suffering schizophrenia? No, He was talking to another Being, the Word.

There are many, many, scriptures that clearly point out Jesus's pre-existence.

John 6:38-40
For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me; and this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up at the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that every one who sees the Son and believes in him should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.





John 8:58
"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

Jesus claimed to exist before Abraham. The words I am mean I exist. So Jesus existed before Abraham.





In Hebrews 1:1-2
1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways,
2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the universe.


[edit on 8-4-2008 by SirPaulMuaddib]

Originally posted by SirPaulMuaddib
Just who was God talking to when He said "Let US make man in OUR image"? Was God suffering schizophrenia? No, He was talking to another Being, the Word.

Elohim is a uni-plural. You have to remember that God is beyond both time and space, and He is talking both present and future. God knew he would become more than one when he was yet still one. It is very complicated, more complicated than this physical realm. Notice what he says to Jerimiah before he was even born...

Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Originally posted by SirPaulMuaddib
There are many, many, scriptures that clearly point out Jesus's pre-existence.

John 6:38-40
For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me; and this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up at the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that every one who sees the Son and believes in him should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.


John 8:58
"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"

Jesus claimed to exist before Abraham. The words I am mean I exist. So Jesus existed before Abraham.

You are forgetting that many of the words Jesus spoke where the words of the Father....

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Originally posted by SirPaulMuaddib
In Hebrews 1:1-2
1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways,
2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the universe.

Again, this is why we are told to search the scriptures, and not just read the English translations. The word translated here as "through" (dia : dee-yah') has more meanings that simply "through"....

1) through

a) of place

1) with

2) in

b) of time

1) throughout

2) during

c) of means

1) by

2) by the means of

2) through

a) the ground or reason by which something is or is not done

1) by reason of

2) on account of

3) because of for this reason

4) therefore

5) on this account

Also the word translated as "universe" or "worlds" in some translation isn't exactly correct in this context. The greek word is aion, or aeon, which also means age. The jewish meaning is actually messianic age. So do you see what it is saying now?

"but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, (because of, the very reason for) He made/appointed (poieō) the age to come."


Do you see how the translators have translated these phrases with their own doctrine in mind, and why we told to search the scriptures? Here is one that is a impossible for the tranlsators to twist, staight to the point (so straight he says it twice!), and straight from the mouth of God....

ISAIAH 45 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.

[edit on 8/4/08 by doctorex]

I also forgot to mention, if you do't have one, there s a great tool for reading scriptures and the meanings of words in the origial greek and hebrew, and it's free to download...

www.scripture4all.org...

god bless

Originally posted by doctorex

Originally posted by SirPaulMuaddib
Just who was God talking to when He said "Let US make man in OUR image"? Was God suffering schizophrenia? No, He was talking to another Being, the Word.

Elohim is a uni-plural.

Elohim is plural form of eloh -- god, ruler, from el -- force. However when used about God it is plural intensive, so called majesty pluralis. Even though it is written in plural, it's meaning is singular. This is revealed when you see how the verb "bara" (create) used in Genesis 1:1 is singular. Had Elohim not been a plural intesive syntax, bara would have been plural.

Likeways God says to Moses in Exodus 7:1 "See, I have made thee a god (elohim) to Pharaoh". Moses is only one person, still he is refered to with a plural -im ending. These facts are indisputable and displays a key gramatic rule in the Hebrew language. No room for interpretation.

ISAIAH 45 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.

Isaiah 45:5 (from hebrew)
I Yahweh and·there-is-no further except·me there-is-no Elohim

As you stated Elohim is uni-plural, so notice....
I Yahweh and·there-is-no further except·me there-is(singular)-no Elohim (Gods)

Elohim is the Hebrew plural word meaning "goddesses and gods," but each time it appears in the Bible it is translated as "God."

So the above verser could correctly be translated...


ISAIAH 45 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there IS no GODS beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

The point is God AT THAT TIME had more than one member composing the Godhead at that time. This other member was The Word.

Moses was called Elohim...because BOTH Moses AND Araan were acting as types of Elohim. One was "God" (the Father) and one was "The Word".


Let's consider this carefully....

All Christians are "sons of God" (through the Holy Spirit).
Now Christ of course was a Son of God (both via virgin birth by Holy Spirit, and via being filled with Holy Spirit). Now if we say Christ was just "another" son (albeit the first), the same way other Christians are "sons of God", is this true? Is there no distinction between His sonship and the sonship of other Christians?

Notice!

If we take the stance that Jesus Christ DID NOT exist eternally before
then Jesus Christ (before His resurrection), COULD NOT accept worship.
To do so would be a sin.

But He did...the only way He could accept worship, were if he WAS GOD, and was currently manifesting in the flesh.

Matthew 14:32-34 (King James Version)
32And when they were come into the ship, the wind ceased.

33Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

34And when they were gone over, they came into the land of Gennesaret.


Now notice, this is different than how Peter reacted, Peter was also a "son of God" (a Christian), yet he could not accept worship.

Acts 10:24-26 (King James Version)
24And the morrow after they entered into Caesarea. And Cornelius waited for them, and he had called together his kinsmen and near friends.

25And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him.

26But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.

If Peter did not correct Cornelius, he would have sinned by accepting his worship.

So the "sonship" of Christ is NOT the same as the sonship of all Christians everywhere, it is unique. Christ accepting worship also shows He could only do so, if He were in the past a part of the God Family.



[edit on 8-4-2008 by SirPaulMuaddib_2]

Originally posted by SirPaulMuaddib_2

Isaiah 45:5 (from hebrew)
I Yahweh and·there-is-no further except·me there-is-no Elohim

As you stated Elohim is uni-plural, so notice....
I Yahweh and·there-is-no further except·me there-is(singular)-no Elohim (Gods)

Elohim is the Hebrew plural word meaning "goddesses and gods," but each time it appears in the Bible it is translated as "God."

So the above verser could correctly be translated...


ISAIAH 45 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there IS no GODS beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

The point is God AT THAT TIME had more than one member composing the Godhead at that time. This other member was The Word.

You are reading that to be saying that God is not including himself in that satement, and is only talk about other Gods, but the statement is completely about him. He said he was Yahweh, and there was no elohim beside him, so where was Christ, or was Christ not also elohim?

Originally posted by SirPaulMuaddib_2

Let's consider this carefully....

All Christians are "sons of God" (through the Holy Spirit).
Now Christ of course was a Son of God (both via virgin birth by Holy Spirit, and via being filled with Holy Spirit). Now if we say Christ was just "another" son (albeit the first), the same way other Christians are "sons of God", is this true? Is there no distinction between His sonship and the sonship of other Christians?

There is complete distinction. Chistians are not yet completely sons of God, just figuratively, they only become so when they receive new bodies (put on incoruption), born again in the resurrection...

1John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

1Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

1Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

1Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Pople think they are at this moment born again, but listen to what Jesus says...

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Unless you are currently spirit, and can move like the wind, appear at will, just like Jesus did after his resurrection, you are not yet born again, a begotten son of God. Jesus was a begotten son of God from birth. Even though he walked in the flesh, he was already perfect.

Originally posted by SirPaulMuaddib_2So the "sonship" of Christ is NOT the same as the sonship of all Christians everywhere, it is unique. Christ accepting worship also shows He could only do so, if He were in the past a part of the God Family.

I agree abot the uniqueness , but a the time Christ accepted worship, he was already in existene wasn't he.



[edit on 8/4/08 by doctorex]

here is th elink to the interview he dosent want you to read. (left if off hiss web site) interesint read



weinlandwatch.wordpress.com...

reply to post by doctorex


By now it must be evident to everyone who has any functioning brain cells that RW is a false prophet, that he doesn't understand the bible and in case you hadn't heard he is being investigated by the IRS.