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Originally posted by grimreaper797
I started with "well, no" because you said imagination is some peoples reality. This isn't true. Imagination is some peoples delusion.
You are your own thoughts. Since you said you are controlled by your own thoughts, and you are your thoughts, and nothing more, then you have control over yourself. You must realize that if you did not have any senses, all that would be left is your thoughts. To be cut off from reality would not mean you are cut off from your imagination.
Your actions are controlled by your thoughts, and your thoughts are not controlled by the world around you because they are independent of the physical world. Your thoughts aren't dependant upon senses, and senses are the only way you experience the physical world. If you didn't have your senses, you would not experience the physical world and it therefore, could not influence your thoughts.
Just because you allow the physical world to effect your thoughts and frame of mind does not mean it is impossible to think without it.
That would require your senses. If you could not look in the mirror. Could not talk or hear the world around you. Could not taste or touch, you would still know you exist. Know why?
"I think, therefore, I am"
No, thats an assumption. All you can know is yourself. You cannot know if another is the same as you OR different. Either way is assuming. Its speculation. Speculation is the wrong way to go.
We have gone over this before. Just because My house and another person house are both made of brick does not mean they are the same.
The physical world is like biological legos. Just because every lego block is the same does not mean that the creations of combined lego blocks are the same. Just because we are all made of the same things does not mean we were all made the same way. If we were not all made the same way, in the same form, same combination, we are different. Physically at least. Mentally we don't know because the only thing you know that exists is yourself.
You say we are the same, but you can't even know for certain if I exist. I can't be certain you exist. Neither of us can be certain the other exists. Even physically it is possibly that another person could be a serious delusion of our senses and what we believe is there is not really there.
There is no escape? More like there is no solution. You can't find a way around your senses to see this world we live in. You cannot be certain your senses aren't seeing something that isn't there. Mentally all you can know is yourself. Good solid logic dictates that you CANNOT know for certain of anything but yourself mentally. You can't even be sure of yourself physically.
Well then we will have to agree to disagree because thought can continue without the senses. Like I have said, Im not sure WHAT you would think about. The question "do I exist" is not dependent on your senses, but your ability to reason. That is not physical, but mental. "What am I" does not require physical senses.
From birth you would most likely never have any thoughts because A. you would not survive long enough and B. to develop without any external help is not something I can imagine. To get to this point in my life without being taught language, math, etc. I simply cannot imagine. It is far too different a world to imagine.
I cannot imagine what thoughts would occur in a person that from birth had no senses, but that does not mean that they would have no thoughts. That just means I cannot imagine it.
But I hope you do realize that if you cannot think, then the idea of a consciousness is just made up in thoughts, in your definition, a reaction to the world. That means there is no individual consciousness, no whole consciousness, no consciousness at all. In order for there to be a consciousness, you need to half something independent of the physical world. According to your defintion, nothing is independent of the physical world.
That means that we are all just matter reacting to other pieces of matter and the consciousness is not really consciousness, but just super complex reactions. Then the only way we are "connected" is by the fact we are all made up of biological legos.
Originally posted by grimreaper797
To say that there is only a physical world is to deny that you exist. In order for you to exist, your thoughts must be independent of the physical world. Why? Because if you were born with no senses, according to you, you would have no thoughts.
If you have no thoughts, you do not exist. Even if you are alive, you do not exist. Physically being here doesn't mean you exist. The reason is because your own physical existance requires you to have senses to process, according to you. If you don't have senses, according to you, you cannot process. If you don't process, you don't exist. A physical compound exists, but not you. You never came into existance to begin with.
To me it seems that you are denying the possibility that our brains have become so complex, they have become such biological super computers, that they have tapped into something that is not physical.
No, I am saying that if I tried to say WHAT thoughts were to exist would be speculation. The existance of thoughts is not speculation, but part of our very existance.
Your imagination is not dependent on senses. There are two worlds out there. Physical and mental. The physical is the real world. The mental is the imagined world. If you were cut off from the real world, you would have the imbalanced imagined world. The CHANCES are you would be living in a delusion.
Look up remote viewing. That is part of the imagined world. Unlike most though, they have superior control over it, and they are not living a delusion. There is the good possibility that what they will see in their mind will NOT be reality, but there are some who have such ability to see without the senses.
I'm not being contradictive.
You don't need senses to see. You don't need senses to hear. You just have to be able to do something that 99.9% of us can't do lol. Remote viewing is an amazing thing. They can't see, smell, hear, touch, taste this place 100 miles away, yet they see it. They hear things. When you recall a memory, do you use your senses? Yes I know you need your senses to initially have a memory. But in these cases they aren't memories, they are the real world.
Think of a memory from your life 10 years ago. You aren't using any senses, but you can see people, you can hear things. sometimes you can even taste. Now imagine that its not a memory. Imagine that it is happening right now, 2000 miles away.
From this paragraph it seems you are more interested about winning than discussion. Some superiority complex coming out.
Perhaps your mind is bound to the physical world and you simply aren't able to see past your own shades. Perhaps it is your inability that hinders you from being able to understand and think beyond what is physically in front of you.