Poverty in the richest country in the World.

And on top of that, entire industries are relocated to Asia. The only jobs left are agriculture and lawyers.
The USA is good at making money out of nothing (administration ,bureaucracy, fiat currency and investment).

Many poor in the US have cars and roof over their heads. You can go to any emergency room and get medical treatment. The poor can easily find food at many different locations.

Yes. That is NOT poverty.
I have seen real poverty (not in the USA, although I am sure there is some), and find it highly offensive to those around the world who are really poor, to call that "poverty".

(And no: poverty is NOT a "relative" term - unless some of us are humans and others aren't...)





[edit on 24-3-2008 by Vanitas]

LOL I would love to meet some of these people on welfare who have cars. I have yet to meet one where I live and I live in a big city. If they can afford to drive a car it's because they are either not paying rent, or are having to compensate in some other area to afford it.

I can barely make the month without running out of cash and I get disability which is more than any 'welfare' check. So how can people on welfare be living the high life some claim? Also for a working person welfare is not permanent, its hard to get and keep. I was on general assistance (which is welfare here) for a year and a half while waiting on my disability claim. The only reason I got that money for a year and a half is because I was waiting on a disability claim. And then when I won my claim I had to pay that GA money back, all of it.

I just don't see how welfare is as easy to get, and abuse, as people here claim...

reply to post by Bryan Thornsberry

I'm also a college student so working only 25 hours a week at a relatively high paying job (for being part time), still puts me WAY below the poverty line. I beleive I cleared 14k in 2007.

No, you make 40% more than a person living at the poverty line. And that does not include the "help" you get from your parents, and the security blanket of being able to go back home if or when you need to.

And its all because living is still, in a relative way, nice even under the poverty line. Our poverty is some third world countries' upper-middle class... so keep that in mind.

Just because there are people in third-world countries living in poverty, does not mean I accept it here in the United States. Especially when there is no excuse for it, other than elitist greed and downright robbery of the people from all classes. The middle class in particular. The majority of poor people in America today, were once middle-class.

reply to post by ANOK


Well I use to live near Cleveland and it was easy to go drive through the projects and see people on welfare with 1 or more cars. Many of them have tvs, dvd players, microwaves, etc. I'm not sure what city you talking about but I've been all over US and it isn't very hard to find the poor with many luxuries. By any standards the "poor" in the US are very wealthy compared to other countries.

reply to post by EndOfFile


Just because they live in the projects, does not mean they are on welfare. And many of the goods you claim to have seen are most likely the fruits of the black-market economy.

reply to post by BloodthirstyCapitalist


If you really came from poverty, then you should be ashamed of yourself for flaunting your success in such a manner. Just because people can pull themselves out of the abyss, does not mean they can't be knocked off their high-horse even more easily.

reply to post by jackinthebox


fruits of the black market? Does it really matter where it came from, they still had to have money to purchase them no matter what the price. So they can't be that poor if they own it.

reply to post by EndOfFile


If someone traded a bag of narcotics for a television set, how does that mean that they had money? Furthermore, if many of these people are motivated enough to be out there risking their lives on a daily basis to hustle some crack-dollars, I'm sure they would be more than willing to work a less dangerous and more meaningful job, if one were available to them.

reply to post by jackinthebox


and how did they get the bag of drugs??? Look the reality is that yes some poor don't have luxuries. However the majority do and the poor in the US are still better off than the poor in other countries.

Nothing like a few huge generalizations there. Besides looking at the economy I would be hard pressed to say it was the richest country in the world. It seems to me that the govt has become it's own entity seperate from the people of the country. Too many people have no idea what happens and even less inclination to try to make any changes. Even those who know some of what is going on have no real idea of how to change it. I'll use myself as an example. I do not agree with or support a huge amount of what the government does. I believe they follow and represent the needs of the corporations and other interests besides the people the are supposed to represent. But explain to me what just some stay at home mom with an small gaggle of children is supposed to do? I suppose I can vote, but I am skeptical that the voting system means much anymore. Gotta love the two party system we live in, push out the other guy and put the guy in place that someone other than the people chose. Now that is neither here nor there, but I don't see a whole lot one person can do. I can try to change the city level with enough money, then gradually move up to state level and so on, but I have this sneaking suspicion that you hit a certain point and it nothing else can happen unless your a chosen select.

You could always form some sort of uprising, but be put down just as quickly and called an extremist terrorist or whatever. But lets face it, most people, not even just in the evil US just want to live their lives. I want to run my business, take care of my children and raise them right as I see fit, I want to enjoy living my life. Not many people want to take on a huge cause like over throwing the people who have put themselves in charge, people who have too much to lose if they did it, kwim? The average person in the US isn't really all that different than someone in say England. I'm not demented or evil, I just want to live my life and am unsure, possibly incapable of doing much to stop what is going on. People however have been lured into an easy life and live their lives on credit. Very little is ever done to teach people to live within their means so it creates a big circle of poverty over time. I sometimes feel like someone is trying to push the reset button on our world and it is hard to make that switch around to living within our means and being smarter about our finances. Too many people with huge egos unwilling to take whatever work they can find. This isn't just a US problem I don't think. I can't even begin to think that the US is the only country with some of the problems we have, that seems rather naive. We are also a fairly well drugged up society, now tell me how is anyone going to be very productive when they are drugged all the time. It is a constant barrage of custom made drugs all over the commercials. Not enough dealing with the root of our problems and too much covering them up with drugs. You drug up a society enough and teach them they can do very little without help of some form, be it govt, drugs, doctors, ect.. then they stop believing in their own ability to perform, to live, to work and much more. Then you end up with a lot more poverty. Then when your in those conditions you look up and see a govt fund of some sort be it welfare, food stamps whatever and it looks so much better than what you had. Oh and look, you may not have to go work because it is better than what you had when you were working. It is hard to do the right thing especially when your beaten down for it, but doing the wrong thing is made to look so much easier and appealing.

I think it is far too easy to blame one particular thing for causing a million little problems, but in reality it is a million little problems that caused all of this, not one big evil anything.

[edit on 24-3-2008 by MaMaa]

Who is benefiting from all this war and fear you ask? I'll give you one very obvious answer.

HALLIBURTON- Yes, Halliburton... the multinational corporation.
Seriously though, Halliburton has been and still is making a fortune off of the "War on Terror." And just in case you didn't know, our Vice President, Mr. Dick Cheney was the man in charge of Halliburton before 2000, but when you're VP, you can't have another job. Vice President Cheney has had a lot of trouble letting go of his corporation as you can see:

Cheney's Halliburton Ties Remain

So how is this related at all to war and poverty? Well, we all know what happens in war, things get destroyed and they must be rebuilt this is almost always the case. In pretty much every war buildings are destroyed, some are burn, others are bombed. Keep that thought but switch to a different kind of mess.

The U.S. dollar seems to be dropping in value every day, and most americans will admit that we're in a recession, possibly a depression. If we are indeed in a recession and have been for a while, then how did Halliburton make 15.3 billion dollars in 2007? It's very simple really... President Bush came up with an excuse to start a war. We sent weapons inspectors into Iraq, but sadly there were no nukes. So, George says there's terrorists in Iraq. So we invaded, destroyed cities and created a warzone. How many buildings were destroyed? I'd guess hundreds, possibly thousands.

Someone has to come in and rebuild, because noone wants to be king of a garbage dump. Halliburton just happened to recieve an exclusive offer from the pentagon. They recieved the rights to rebuild regions of Iraq and Afghanistan, they were also asked to construct new schools, community centers and homes for the Iraqi people. They were also asked by the pentagon to research and perfect better armor for ground troops. Halliburton is also one of the worlds biggest supplier for jobs over seas. Cheney is corrupt, and bush is just his puppet. We see these kind of wars constantly throughout history, they are small wars, but they can make companies like Halliburton billions of dollars. We will keep seeing these small controlled conflicts pop up as long as there are corporations like Halliburton.

HAha, I just remembered a clip of Bush stating that we would conquer the evildoers in Iraq. The reporter let him finish his rant then asked him what reporters should ask. He said, "Mr. President, some poeple think that this war isn't justified, what would you say to them?" "W-well," Bush stuttered, "We went into iraq to get the terrorists, I guess I'd just put on a tape of 9/11." I found it funny that our president, the commander in cheif, was actually using 911 as an excuse to invade Iraq. He doesn't care about the thousands of people that died on 911, and I doubt he cares much about the 4000 american soldiers that have died in Iraq.

Hallibuton has made around 20 billion dollars every year since this war started. But how much money do they need? When will these global corporations be satisfied. Sadly money is the root of all evil, we're in a recession because Halliburton is doing so much work that the Pentagon can't pay on time. This in turn is fueling a recession that will lead to a depression, that will just lead to violence and more bloodshed.

sumperson, while I agree with what you posted and can see how it is happening I don't understand what can be done about it. There have been marches on washington and nothing ever happens from it.

So what do you suggest doing to put a stop to Halliburton and the current administration.

Originally posted by jackinthebox
reply to post by Uniceft17

 

Their are alot of people here that can get out and get a job, they are just too damn lazy and abuse the system. Getting food and tax payers money through well-fare and food stamps. It's a shame, I live in a small city and just here I have met tons of people that can get up and get their lazy asses a job but they would rather sit and have the governement throw money at them.

I don't blame them. Why should they slave away at a job that won't even pay enough to provide for basic necessities, when such necessities such as medical care are provided once you are reamed through the system.

And just to add, welfare is no where near as glorious as people try to make it out to be. The waiting list for housing was eight years the last time I checked, and that was quite a few years ago. So what are all thos people doing in the meatime.

One more thing. If you see "poor people" driving cars, they are working. Welfare won't let you have one otherwise. Just because someone gets food stamps does not mean they are not working.

You don't blame them?
Their are plenty of jobs out their (i don't know about right now), it's just that people don't want to get up and look for them.
So people who are out working hard for their money should have to pay for things other people are going to use and not them?
It is hard to live on your on in this country, people can find room mates and so on and so forth to help pay rent, but when it comes to lazy people leeching off tax payers that's when i have a problem. The only people that should get help in this country is the ederly,the disabled, and single parents. I say everyone else has the ability to get out and find a job and take care of themselves.

Having lived all of my current 62 years in the UK, I was brought up to believe that the US was virtually invincible and the greatest society that the world has ever seen. Their peoples consisted of an initial mixture of immigrants from all over the world who had the foresight, fortitude, skills and ambition to seek out their fortunes in the new world, and they were bound to succeed in a land of such abundant resources. These immigrants did indead eventually manage to create a US superpower.

It really saddens me to read posts like " poverty in the US " No crit of the OP at all, I just wonder why the US Government can not loose their ' America is the World's Policeman ' Military attude and get back to manufacturing goods for their population, and provide much needed home grown jobs.

I also understand that the infrasructures in the US are apparently falling apart, could not their huge prison population and immediately returned soldiers be gainfully employed to do repairs in this context ? Just my sad take on things ATM

reply to post by EndOfFile

and how did they get the bag of drugs???

Well poor people certainly don't own any boats or planes, so who do you think provided them? The same people who want to make sure they can profit from the misery and suffering of poverty.

Specifically, they got the bag of drugs "fronted" to them. "The first one's always free," it is sometimes called. But if you don't use that money from the resale or distribution of the product to buy another bag from the supplier who fronted you, you're dead. Then there are others who will go do some sort of robbery to make an entrepenurial black-market investment, so they are not indebted to any particular supplier. The there is the final option, kill the kinpin and take his drugs.

Look the reality is that yes some poor don't have luxuries.

MOST poor people don't have any such luxuries. Just because you see cars in the projects, does not mean anything. One, they may be owned by working poor. Two, it could be visitors. And three, for every car you see, there are probably another twenty people who don't have a car.

Furthermore, just because you see what are characterized as "nice things" does not necessarily mean these people actually spent money to get them. Some things are donated, some things stolen, some things are picked out of dumpsters, etc.

As I have said, much of these "luxury" items you speak of are the fruits of the black-market economy. And for every person you see rockin' some crisp-fresh gear out on the block, there are twenty families hiding behind bolted doors afraid to step outside.

You have a skewed sense of the realities of poverty in America. But that is to be expected, given the amount of propoganda that is fed to Americans to keep them blissfully ignorant of the harsh realities they may one day face.

...and the poor in the US are still better off than the poor in other countries.

To be perfectly honest, I really don't care about the poor in other countries. If we can't take care of our own, how are we supposed to ever help anyone else?

reply to post by Uniceft17

Their are plenty of jobs out their (i don't know about right now), it's just that people don't want to get up and look for them.

It's not just jobs. It's meaningful and accessible employment.

If you are so poor you don't have a car, how do you get to work, or even to the interview? (In non-urban areas of course.)

Furthermore, why would anyone bother to work a minimum-wage job in some greasepit for 50-60 hours a week, when they still would not even be able to afford the most basic necessities. At least when you're on welfare, the heat stays turned on, and you can go to the doctor when you need to. People on welfare are actually living more secure than the working poor.

You also have to consider this. Most of the poor in this country do in fact work all week long, just like everyone else. The images of welfare queens and food-stamp pimps is anecdotal, and not an accurate depiction of reality.

So people who are out working hard for their money should have to pay for things other people are going to use and not them?

Don't blame the people in need, blame the people who have created the need through their own deliberately perpetrated crimes against the citizenry as a whole.

If you are worried about where your tax-dollars are going, just look up. The corporate bailouts have started once again. Socialism for the rich. Just look at the billions of dollars that have gone unaccounted for. At least you can see where your money is going when you see someone with a welfare benefit card. Then there are billions more that have been used, as I said, to save the very banks and corporations who create these conditions and bring upon their failure deliberately so that they can rob more of your tax dollars.

I say everyone else has the ability to get out and find a job and take care of themselves.

Please don't misunderstand me, I am not saying that everyone should just line up for a handout, nor that it is unreasonable to expect that everyone work hard to make a living. But you must look at the truth about poverty objectively, not out of fear that it is the poor people themselves who are dragging you into the abyss by increasing your tax bill. The poor people are trying to warn you, not drag you in.

Like Treach from Naughty by Nature said, "If you ain't from the ghetto, don't ever come to the ghetto, 'cause you wouldn't understand the ghetto...Stay the **** outta the ghetto."

Good luck to the people trying to pull themselves out of poverty, and if that is not possible, then on trying to manage. Ignore the haters.

Is Socialism really such a bad idea? Shouldn't raw Capitalism be tempered?

As Naom Chomsky said, it's hard capitalism for the middle/working classes, and socialism for the rich--Bear-Sterns anyone? Oil company tax-breaks? Bush's pro-wealthy tax-cuts? Haliburton and $171 billion spent on Iraq so far? The list goes on...

reply to post by Uniceft17


There isnt much out there but even what there is do the wages keep up with the high costs of everything out there that is the issue. People say oh go get a job there are plenty out there. Mabey so but what good is a job if you cant afford to put food on your table because gas, food, education, insurance, and everything else is sky high.

The trickle down theory has not worked in over 25 years because we give tax breaks to the big CEOs and instead of raising wages they keep the money for themselves.

LOL I would love to meet some of these people on welfare who have cars. I have yet to meet one where I live and I live in a big city.

I actually know one.
He and his family live in Norfolk, VA.

Very nice people, not "lazy" at all.
And yes, they have a car.
And yes, they definitely are "poor" by American standards (which are very relative, as I said before, and they shouldn't be, but that's a different issue).

I could describe their circumstances more specifically, but I don't want to, because I don't feel I have the right to do so.







[edit on 24-3-2008 by Vanitas]