Poverty in the richest country in the World.

Originally posted by jackinthebox
...I don't quite agree with you there, but starvation is not readily apparent either. It's being done slowly, and with trickery. Everyone talks about the recent obesity epidemic in America, and never realize it has been deliberately engineered to keep people from realizing that they are starving to death. That's correct, fat people are literally starving to death. Not from lack of what some might call food, but from lack of nutrition...

OK I hear yeah, and you are right my friend.

Scary thing is I can see this getting much worse before we even realise.
Financial institutions are getting scared, you can tell by all the corruption going on, they're scrambling to stay afloat. We all know who suffers first from this.
Capitalism requires capital to be made to survive, and when desperate nothing will stop it trying to do that at any cost of Human lives.

When your home can be taken away with just the swipe of a pen you're living in a fools paradise...

Nearly one in 10 Ohioans now receives food stamps, the highest number in the state's history.

Caseloads have almost doubled just since 2001, with 1.1 million residents now collecting benefits, according to the Ohio Department of Job and Family Services.

Low wages, unemployment and the rising cost of groceries, gasoline and other necessities are to blame for financial hardships facing many Ohio families.

dispatch.com...

it goes on to say that it's estimated that there are another 500,000 Ohioans who are eligible but have not applied.
and:

Not surprisingly, food pantries and soup kitchens across the state have been reporting record demands. Like the families they serve, they, too, cannot keep pace.

In central Ohio, demand at the Mid-Ohio Food Bank in January was up 14 percent over the same period a year ago, with 120,000 requests for food.

The increased demand coupled with rising food costs and fewer donations have forced the food bank to reduce the five-day supply of food it had been giving out to a three-day supply.

"Milk is up 25 percent," said Mid-Ohio president Matt Habash. "Applesauce, a big staple at food banks, has gone from $9 to $15 a case."

In other areas of the state, pantries with their supplies depleted have been forced to temporarily close.
(same link as above)

seems like many of us are in reality....getting poorer.....regardless of what the government would wish us to believe.

reply to post by wrathchild

I'd like to see pictures of these starving Americans.

And for all those who whine about the "deadbeats" who get foodstamps, I would also like to remind you that the starting salary on the NYPD was so low, that they could and did qualify for food stamps. That's right, cops on foodstamps.

[edit on 3/25/0808 by jackinthebox]

Originally posted by ANOK

Yes you are right, but the reason is simple, this system everyone seems to think is so wonderful; capitalism.

Resources are kept artificially scarce to keep prices high. People go hungry because someone else took more then they needed and capitalised on their access by selling it at an inflated price.

As soon as the lowest earners start making more money, as a whole like in a minimum wage rise for ex., the system adjusts so those at the bottom remain there and those at the top continue earning more. It is not in the interest of the capitalist to eradicate poverty, it's as important to the system as is wealth, so poverty is perpetuated.

In response to a previous post: I don't feel ashamed at all for my success, and too bad if you feel that I'm on a high horse. Most of the people who are poor are that way because they made poor choices in their life, or are just too lazy to change their circumstances. You have stated that you live in the ghetto, and are quite poor. Apparently you blame the capitalist society in which you live. More likely, you would rather assign the blame to another source, rather than actually own up to your mistakes, and take responsbility for your life.

As for scarcity, every resource is scarce. Since there isn't an unlimited number of resources (both raw and finished goods), the goods that do exist have an intrinsic value. Since people have demands for certain goods, suppliers provide those goods at a price that consumers are willing and able to pay. Congrats, you now know more about economics than you did before.

Might interest you to know that the agriculture industry is an example of a perfectly competitve industry. In other words, everyone who sells wheat sells it at a market price, not an individually determined price. Therefore, the only people who go hungry are those who are completely unable to afford any food at all. Its not a matter of someone else having "access" to it before anyone else, and "inflated" prices don't exist in this industry. There might be a bit of difference in price between regions or supermarkets, but by and large, the prices are the same.

Capitalism doesn't ensure that there will always be poverty, the ineptitude and uselessness of certain people guarantee poverty. Capitalism, free market capitalism, is a work of wonder, and also a meritocracy. Those who have the skills and abilities and drive to excell can and will. Those who simply cannot compete against others will fall to the wayside. Its not always pretty, or fair, but life is neither of those things.

Once you realize that the world won't stop to pick you up when you skin your knee in life, you'll get over this "woe is me" attitude towards poverty.

Originally posted by ANOK
Wealth is an illusion. The 'American dream' is a trap, conditioning you to thinking you need more or deserve more than you do. A trap to condition you to spend spend spend, as if what you 'own' makes you the person you are.

[edit on 24/3/2008 by ANOK]

So, the American Dream to you is an Ikea living room? I understand that what the American Dream is differs from person to person, but there seems to be a general consensus that it relates to the ability of a person to grow up in adverse conditions, and through hardwork and determination, improve their lot in life. How is this a trap? This is the reality of this wonderful nation, that anyone can improve their circumstances, or their life, if they work hard enough to.

As for what people "deserve", that's such a loaded statement I'm amazed you typed it. Exactly how is one supposed to calculate how much they "deserve"? If I can afford to drive a 45k automobile, but in the city I live in there are families without homes, do I "deserve" to drive such a luxury item? Considering that I worked for the money that I used to buy the car, does that not mean I "deserve" what I want?

*sigh*Never really thought my Ayn Rand quote would be so germane to a thread...

Originally posted by jackinthebox

Why then, is the same not said of those who are suffering in the third world countries? Those that are physically able, should reap what they so, or move on to greener pastures perhaps. Why should we send aid to these nations, when it is their own mismanagement that has led them to their plight?

Excellent point! We SHOULD cancel all foreign aid to impoverished nations. That alone would help to rebalance the budget, and to give away money like that is a severe economic drain upon out economy. I'm a little tired of sending my tax dollars, and several billion others', to Columbia so they can fight an endless war with separatists. Add to that the financial black-hole that is places like Mozambique. The IMF was set up to assist these nations, so why do they always come to Uncle Sam with hungry eyes and empty pockets?

Originally posted by BloodthirstyCapitalist


Excellent point! We SHOULD cancel all foreign aid to impoverished nations. That alone would help to rebalance the budget, and to give away money like that is a severe economic drain upon out economy. I'm a little tired of sending my tax dollars, and several billion others', to Columbia so they can fight an endless war with separatists. Add to that the financial black-hole that is places like Mozambique. The IMF was set up to assist these nations, so why do they always come to Uncle Sam with hungry eyes and empty pockets?

To bad your tax dollars are really going to the interest on money we have borrowed from those other nations you are referring to. You want to balance the budget get rid of the fed and bring our troops from the 160 countries we have them in and use that money to fix our infrustructure.

Originally posted by BloodthirstyCapitalist


Once you realize that the world won't stop to pick you up when you skin your knee in life, you'll get over this "woe is me" attitude towards poverty.

Pick people up like oh say the big banks who should be in bankruptcy right now? Pick people up like Chrysler Corp in the 80s? Pick up all the other big wigs that get bailed out by our government on a social welfare for the rich...

I agree Im not for government bailing out people that is not what this nation was founded on it says in the constitution "the right to pursue happiness" but yet I hear about bear strearns type deals where they should be in bankruptcy they will get bought out and all of their debt obsorbed by the fed and all of this bad debt about to be bought by the fed from the banks and their bad investments. I think if you bail out one you need to bail out all or vice versa no double standards....like someone said on TV the other day...Free Capitalism for the profits and socialism for the losses.

I think some of you are missing the point that many of these hungry are children.
We are sending aid to feed and clothe people all over the world, but are neglecting out own.
There are only so many high paying jobs.
Someone has to do the dirty work, and they get minimum wage for it.
They cannot raise a family on that.
I know, they should not have had the children.
So what do we do here?
People scream their heads off if we bring up manditory sterilization for poor people.
So does anyone have a better idea?

reply to post by conspiracy nut


In almost every city in the United States you will find homeless people and hungry people going to shelters to eat and have a place to sleep and the most pathetic thing of all is that this government does not care about poor people.

I've talked to many people on the internet in many different countries and most of them think that ALL Americans are wealthy which is completely not true.



This is a disgrace.

I see them laying on sidewaks on a dirty mattress and they will come up to me in a parking lot and ask for a few cents because they are hungry.

The worst disgrace of this country is when I hear about our soldiers that have fought in Iraq being homeless and sleeping under bridges .

Our soldiers are also coming home from that awful war and committing suicide because they can't get needed mental help from our society.

If you are in the United States take a good look when you go out the next time.



You will see that I'm speaking the truth.

[edit on 25-3-2008 by MagicaRose]

[edit on 25-3-2008 by MagicaRose]

reply to post by BloodthirstyCapitalist

Most of the people who are poor are that way because they made poor choices in their life, or are just too lazy to change their circumstances.

So you think it's okay that cops are having to live off food stamps?

reply to post by BloodthirstyCapitalist


Haha here's the 'its the poor persons fault they're poor crowd'...

Read some more of what I said, maybe you missed a couple of posts, and you'll see that my motivation is only for bettering the system for all of us.

I don't expect you to be embarrassed about your 'success', did I say that or imply that anywhere? I think you're making assumptions based on your idea, fed to you by the MSM, that anyone who thinks differently to the mainstream hates your success. What do you call success for starters?
I don't have a problem with any working person making money. What I do have a problem with is a system that allows minority groups (no not immigrants) to have monopolies on a societies means of survival and production. Working people in the middle are not the problem (except for their apathy and fear of change) its the small insanely wealthy groups at the top who dictate world policy.

You make the assumption because you became 'successful' that everyone else should be able to do it to. You obviously don't know how the system you become successful through really works. Please don't take this as a personal attack, but for you to be successful financially someone else has to fail. Capitalism requires a poverty class for there to be a wealthy class. Under capitalism we can not all be 'successful'. There is only so much room and the higher you get up in the pyramid the less room there is, so some people are going to fail no matter how hard they work.

It's a myth to believe everyone can be wealthy under capitalism and if you think they can you really don't understand the nature of the beast.

I forget the exact quote and who said it but it was something like this, 'if it only took hard work to become wealthy, then the slaves would have been millionaires'...

One other thing while I'm at it lol. One thing that annoys me is this attitude of the 'successful' that they must have worked harder than anyone else to get there and so deserve what they have. Well yes you do deserve what you have if really worked, but so do all the other people that, believe it or not, work as hard if not harder than you but their work doesn't make the wealth your does. My line of work did more to help others than myself...

I worked hard all my life, including 6 years in the military, until the day I couldn't do it anymore because of health. I worked hard labour, not pushing buttons and shuffling papers to add zero's to my bank account. You're gonna say because I'm not 'successful' by your standards I didn't work hard enough?

reply to post by jackinthebox


Exactly just like that link I sent you jack on the soup kitchen here where I live most people that go there have full time jobs but still cant afford to feed themselves but yet we can spend billions to bail out banks.

reply to post by mybigunit


There is no excuse for hard-working Americans to be going hungry. But I suppose there are some people who will argue that those people just aren't doing enough. I'll tell you what. I get hungry enough, I'm goin' Hannibal on some of those people who say I don't work hard enough.

[edit on 3/25/0808 by jackinthebox]

Originally posted by ANOK
Well yes you do deserve what you have if really worked, but so do all the other people that, believe it or not, work as hard if not harder than you but their work doesn't make the wealth your does.

Maybe "hard" is not the right word here. When I was growing up a kid, I remember people saying "educate yourself" or you'll have a hard working life.

Compensation is not tied to how hard you work, and nor should it be. Compensation should be based upon how much you're worth. And how much you are willing to accept to do whatever the job is.

Anybody can sweep floors, clean toilets, shovel manure, and stock boxes on store shelves. Laborius hard work for sure, but "hard" doesn't mean jack when it comes to pay. What determines pay is the size of the specific available labor workforce and what EACH are willing to accept as compensation at time of hire for their job. You don't pay someone more than what they are worth and willing to accept. Do you pay more for the things you buy than you need to? Do you pay more for your groceries because you think the checkout clerk deserves more than what they accepted at hire? No, nobody does, not you, nor an employer.

The jobs that pay a living wage require people to use more of their brains instead of their bronze. If someone wants to earn more money, they must increase their worth and value by educating themselves. I know this for a fact because that is what I practice.

I've read and studied a lot in my life to keep my worth and value as a computer programmer and network engineer up there at the top of my field. I'm constantly LEARNING and bettering myself, even at my current old age. The people I know that consider themselves poor victims of society haven't done a damn thing to increase their potential or worth and value.

A job that any idiot on the planet can do or learn to do in an afternoon or week will never pay a livable wage. And never should it. If I could have earned a living wage merely sweeping floors, I would have probably never strived to do and be more. Why bother?

Poverty is suppose to be the motivator to better yourself and strive to achieve more ~ not to keep thinking one day floors sweepers will be making enough to buy a home. Those that don't take the initiative to improve themselves will never achieve much, their only hope is to win the lotto some day, ha. I have never met a highly motivated poor person, just excuse filled lazy complaining whiney uneducated poor people.

Do the so-called poor a favor ~ buy them a book!

reply to post by Divinorumus

I have never met a highly motivated poor person...

I happen to know plenty of poor people that work 60 hours a week. I think that would qualify as motivated.

And what about people who simply don't have the mental capacity for further learning. Just because someone is not very brught, they have no right to make a living?

On top of that, there are plent of people who would like to continue their education, but can't because they are working 60-70 hours a week trying to keep themselves or their families out of a homeless shelter.

And don't give me that, "they shouldn't have kids then" routine either. There are plenty of people that were average middle class that are now living in poverty.

Lastly, you act as if there are no college educated people living in poverty.

reply to post by jackinthebox

And what about people who simply don't have the mental capacity for further learning.

I don't think we can expect a mentally retarded, or even a paraplegic individual, should be held to the same standards of expectation as the rest of us. They of course "need" help from those willing to help them. And anyone of us is free at any given moment to do something to improve their plight in life. Right? If you are so concerned about them, do something for them yourself then. Nobody is stopping you. Nobody is stopping any of us from helping another. Or is this another one of those things everyone is expecting and thinking is someone else's responsibility to attend to and take care of?

If you want to help these people, then YOU help them. Everyone complains about the so-called poor, thinking it's someone else's responsibility to help and fix these people, but it's not. The government was not meant to be anyones mommy and daddy or career motivator.

People need to stop putting all this off on the government and others, as if it is someone else's responsibility. Nice copout, but passing the buck fixes nothing. If you think an unmotivated undereducated floor sweeper should be making $50 an hour, you hire one and pay them that much.

As for those that started their life and family without preparing themselves to handle these responsibilities, well, let them be a lesson to the rest of us. They and their "hard" life is what one should expect when following in their footsteps. They and their "hard" life is what I was constantly warned about when I was a kid. THAT is what is suppose to happen when you try to raise a family of seven on a floor sweepers salary. We need them as examples for the rest to learn by. Forget about them, they screwed up and that is their consequences. It's not your fault nor mine or any government or any employer, so I'm not paying anything to fix THAT and THEM. If you want to correct their life choice mistakes , go for it, but count me out ~ they ain't MY problem so don't burden me with their issues!

I'll help those who with legitimate needs due to no fault of their own.

reply to post by Divinorumus


See we are both looking at this from different directions. You are supporting the business side of it, I support the workers. I don't really care about paying someone the minimum you can get away with so as to increase your own profits. I cannot and will not except and support such an unfair exploitative system.

Cooperative work places, where everyone is part of the running and the profit of the business, are the only fair way to run things imo. So no I won't sympathize with your exploitation of labour and how much you think it's worth. My time and life is worth as much as anybodies.

I like the way you insinuate I'm not successful not because I didn't work hard enough, but that I'm not educated enough. Do I sound like I'm not educated?

Or shuld a speek liek this and where a flat cap? Life is not always so smooth for some of us like it is for a lot of Americans. There was no 'college fund' when I left school at 16. It was the height of thatchers reign, and her systematic destruction of the working class in Britain. You were lucky if you got a job. I was lucky and landed a job I kept for 7 years, until I was laid off. You didn't have the luxury of changing jobs when you were bored or wanted something better. No, you held on to that job for grim life...the alternative was the dole.

Point is you have to consider not everyone has the same chance in life and there are so many different reasons that people don't become 'successful', as you interpret it. I don't have much money but I feel I've been very successful in some of my endeavors, including this post lol. Money has never been my main motivation to do anything.