Why is YOUR religion Better?

Originally posted by grimreaper797
Atheist speculate as to why there is no god.

1: no we don't. we don't even have absolute certainty as to the question, let any reason to speculate as to why something we don't believe in doesn't exist..

2: atheism is not a religion

[quote/]

what are the qualities of the true religion?

1. are its teachings from god? or men?

2 tim 3:[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

mark 7:[7] Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctines the commandments of men.

adherence to the bible is nessesary (sorry my english is horrible today)



....this is kind of why I didn't want scripture to be used to defend ones religion because it so debateable to its meaning. A person could say and even agree that it takes all of the pieces of a puzzle to in fact put the puzzle together completely. If in fact "all scripture is given by inspiration of God" then we are missing a lot of pieces to that puzzle. The gospel of Mary would be a good example. Relying on scripture is akin to relying on "positive" law and to disregard "natural" law. (St. Thomas Aquantis stuff)
Our Supreme Court can't even agree on how to interpret a document written just over 200 years ago, why should you even think that we can get the true meaning of translated words from 2000 years ago and longer. Yeah, oral tradition is great for them back then but still.



[quote/]
1 cor 5:[9] I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
[10] Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
[11] But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
[12] For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
[13] But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.


[5] For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.



Good example of why many of us don't go with the literal stuff. It goes against natural law for us that are about the Love and it goes against the logic that an Atheist or Agnostic would require.
I'm thinking that the fewer tenets a religion has the closer to the perfect religion it is, as long as there are no contradictions and it centers around love. All virtue has its orgin from love.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by grimreaper797
Atheist speculate as to why there is no god.

1: no we don't. we don't even have absolute certainty as to the question, let any reason to speculate as to why something we don't believe in doesn't exist..

2: atheism is not a religion

1) Atheist are "more" certain there is no god then the Agnostic, "show me the proof".
2) I agree, I don't see how atheism could be a religion.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
You are not going to get the respose that you want because the practitioners of the religion you are tryng to describe are not going to talk about it.
Those are the secret societies that you have to go to some extint of vetting before they hand out the real facts of their religion.
These are worshipers of demons and devils that the church worked so hard to drive underground.
Christianity is the opposite of religions that try to exclude people.
Christians are pretty open about their religion because Jesus gave the great commission to his followers, to spread the word.

[edit on 24-3-2008 by jmdewey60]

Oh, I wouldn't be too quick to say that "some" or even "many" Christian faiths don't exclude people. They are kind of like the Borg, resistance is futile, you will be assimilated. (or go to hell) I don't think that qualifies as a good alternative to other religions.

Originally posted by Lightmare
If I were to say that my religion is "better" , it would miss the point. I could give a laundry list reasons why my religion is better, but that, also, would miss the point and could even be refuted. It is not about what religion is better and which are not.

When it comes to spiritual matters, I am interested in only one thing. THE TRUTH. I'm not interested in finding "my truth" or what "feels right to me". For such is the way of those who would try to mold the reality of the universe to suit their own tastes and emotions. It is not even possible and the truth is not that way. It is what it is, regardless of perception. Therefore, I will settle for nothing less than the truth.

I'm not here to tell anybody what to believe. All I can really say is that whatever religion gets me closest to the truth shall I not only consider to be better, I shall consider it the best.

[edit on 3/24/2008 by Lightmare]

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I don't think I could have said it better myself. What religion is the closest to the truth? This is why I started this thread. I wanted to hear from peoples different "religions" and not necessarily a hybrid of personal beliefs. We all know we have them. Who has the religion that is closest to the truth? Because like you said it should be considered the best and if somehow that could be established then learning about it and tweaking it would be one step closer for us truth seekers.

reply to post by miriam0566


Posting a bunch of passages from the bible is not going to turn a non-Christian to Christianity. I don't understand why Christians feel the need to do this; and quite honestly Miriam, the passages you posted makes God look like a jealous, temper tantrum throwing crybaby. I like to believe that God is above that and therefore I find the way that the bible portrays god is blasphemous.

Agnosticism has a lot of speculation. As one myself, I am constantly searching for truth and enlightenment and constantly questioning the things around me, which I feel is a good thing. I feel it keeps me on my toes. I feel that it's the followers of the major religions who follow blind like sheep.

Originally posted by raptorinvictus
Unfortunately many power hungary humans take it upon themselves to mis-interpret a relegion's teachings and knowledge and twist it to suit their own needs.
It is up to us to look at what is right and what is wrong. Weigh evrything that is told to you on a scale and then decide if its worth listining to.....including all that i have just blurted out here:-)

I am sorry to have to say that things are like you say, but also in a way, are worse. I mean that, as you describe happens, plus even more sinister things are happening.
In that sort of way to look at what is going on, you have to know that we are on purpose not given enough information to make proper judgemants.
Things are being witheld from us to keep us away from the truth.
All for the sake of power.

Originally posted by Res Ipsa
1) Atheist are "more" certain there is no god then the Agnostic, "show me the proof".
2) I agree, I don't see how atheism could be a religion.

A belief is just as powerful as not believing. Saying something is right is just as definate as saying something is wrong. Saying there is no god is just as powerful as saying there is one.

Both assume, both speculate. Atheism is a religion because it is based on the idea there is no god. Other religions are religions because they base their believes on the idea there is a certain god, or a certain prophet, etc. Its still all somebody saying "I believe this". A christian believes in a christian god just like an atheist believes there is no god.

Originally posted by Res Ipsa

what are the qualities of the true religion?

1. are its teachings from god? or men?

2 tim 3:[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

mark 7:[7] Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctines the commandments of men.

adherence to the bible is nessesary (sorry my english is horrible today)

....this is kind of why I didn't want scripture to be used to defend ones religion because it so debateable to its meaning. A person could say and even agree that it takes all of the pieces of a puzzle to in fact put the puzzle together completely. If in fact "all scripture is given by inspiration of God" then we are missing a lot of pieces to that puzzle. The gospel of Mary would be a good example. Relying on scripture is akin to relying on "positive" law and to disregard "natural" law. (St. Thomas Aquantis stuff)
Our Supreme Court can't even agree on how to interpret a document written just over 200 years ago, why should you even think that we can get the true meaning of translated words from 2000 years ago and longer. Yeah, oral tradition is great for them back then but still.

that is assuming the gospel of mary is inspired of god... if god is all powerful, why is it so unreasonable to think that he would have the power to decide which books are included and which are not?

1 cor 5:[9] I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
[10] Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
[11] But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
[12] For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
[13] But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.


[5] For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Good example of why many of us don't go with the literal stuff. It goes against natural law for us that are about the Love and it goes against the logic that an Atheist or Agnostic would require.
I'm thinking that the fewer tenets a religion has the closer to the perfect religion it is, as long as there are no contradictions and it centers around love. All virtue has its orgin from love.

that would be ok, if you were god and you were setting the standard, but the fact is, you aren´t. simply put you disagree, which is fine, your poragative (sp?)

Originally posted by Res Ipsa

Originally posted by Lightmare
If I were to say that my religion is "better" , it would miss the point. I could give a laundry list reasons why my religion is better, but that, also, would miss the point and could even be refuted. It is not about what religion is better and which are not.

When it comes to spiritual matters, I am interested in only one thing. THE TRUTH. I'm not interested in finding "my truth" or what "feels right to me". For such is the way of those who would try to mold the reality of the universe to suit their own tastes and emotions. It is not even possible and the truth is not that way. It is what it is, regardless of perception. Therefore, I will settle for nothing less than the truth.

I'm not here to tell anybody what to believe. All I can really say is that whatever religion gets me closest to the truth shall I not only consider to be better, I shall consider it the best.

[edit on 3/24/2008 by Lightmare]

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I don't think I could have said it better myself. What religion is the closest to the truth? This is why I started this thread. I wanted to hear from peoples different "religions" and not necessarily a hybrid of personal beliefs. We all know we have them. Who has the religion that is closest to the truth? Because like you said it should be considered the best and if somehow that could be established then learning about it and tweaking it would be one step closer for us truth seekers.

so you seek truth, until you disagree with it?

Originally posted by snowflake_obsidian

Posting a bunch of passages from the bible is not going to turn a non-Christian to Christianity. I don't understand why Christians feel the need to do this; and quite honestly Miriam, the passages you posted makes God look like a jealous, temper tantrum throwing crybaby. I like to believe that God is above that and therefore I find the way that the bible portrays god is blasphemous.

Agnosticism has a lot of speculation. As one myself, I am constantly searching for truth and enlightenment and constantly questioning the things around me, which I feel is a good thing. I feel it keeps me on my toes. I feel that it's the followers of the major religions who follow blind like sheep.

IF god exists, IF he wants to be worshiped, wouldn´t he provide a way for his requirements to known? without the bible, everything is just guesswork. i believe this and you believe that and everything is pointless, its just a regurgitating of the same stuff over and over again. belief in the great spegetti (sp?) god has the same validity to it as to any other religion.

if you ask a christian why she thinks her faith is better, wouldn´t it be wise of her to be able to back up her beliefs citing scripture from a book she claims to live by? what kind of hypocrite would i be if i claimed to follow christ (who also cited scripture on many occasions) but wasnt able to back my beliefs up?

let me ask you something? if you are married or are getting married, would you call you mate a jealous temper tantrum throwing baby because he/she asked for your exclusive love?

if god had no standards and let people literally do whatever they want, why would he make the bible in the first place?

these questions provide truth, not spitting rhetoric like ¨follow blind like sheep¨

the truth is, jesus followers are called sheep because they follow his direction, if you don´t want that for yourself, then thats fine. you decision. don´t like my posts, fine, your decision.

but it is my decision to follow the bible. i would apprieciate it if you could please respect that.

Originally posted by miriam0566

let me ask you something? if you are married or are getting married, would you call you mate a jealous temper tantrum throwing baby because he/she asked for your exclusive love?

If he asked for my exclusive love is not a reason for me to think of him as temper tantrum throwing baby. However if he demanded that I not speak to other guys and commanded that I follow a string of ridiculous rules relating to the matter (in the same way your bible portrays God) then yes I would.

I do respect your right to follow the bible. I am saying that using the bible to convince non-believers is a waste of time.

Originally posted by snowflake_obsidian

Originally posted by miriam0566

let me ask you something? if you are married or are getting married, would you call you mate a jealous temper tantrum throwing baby because he/she asked for your exclusive love?

If he asked for my exclusive love is not a reason for me to think of him as temper tantrum throwing baby. However if he demanded that I not speak to other guys and commanded that I follow a string of ridiculous rules relating to the matter (in the same way your bible portrays God) then yes I would.

I do respect your right to follow the bible. I am saying that using the bible to convince non-believers is a waste of time.

but thats the thing, im not trying to convince you, the thread asked why is my religion better than others, instead of listing opinions, i decided to list the critirium(sp?) that i follow.

that´s my logic. i´m not being led blindly like a sheep (sheep don´t follow just anyone by the way), i researched what i believe in and am making an informed decision.

i understand you don´t agree, but it was never my intention to make you agree.



[edit on 27-3-2008 by miriam0566]

Originally posted by Res Ipsa
1) Atheist are "more" certain there is no god then the Agnostic, "show me the proof".

...agnostic and atheist aren't mutually exclusive positions

atheist = one who doesn't believe in god (a theos, no god)
agnostic = one who thinks that knowing the answer isn't possible (a gnosis, no knowledge)

i'm an agnostic atheist. i do not see evidence for either side, so i refuse to take the affirmative position that there is some sort of deity.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
A belief is just as powerful as not believing. Saying something is right is just as definate as saying something is wrong. Saying there is no god is just as powerful as saying there is one.

...atheists don't say there isn't a god
atheists say they don't believe there is a god.
it's not an affirmative statement.

Both assume, both speculate. Atheism is a religion because it is based on the idea there is no god.

...no it isn't
atheism is the single statement 'i do not believe in a god'
it is not 'i believe there is no god'

Other religions are religions because they base their believes on the idea there is a certain god, or a certain prophet, etc. Its still all somebody saying "I believe this". A christian believes in a christian god just like an atheist believes there is no god.

...no
no
no
no
no
no
nononononononononono
but i know that no matter how many times i tell you that you have things wrong on this, you might not accept that you're wrong here.

reply to post by Res Ipsa


my wife and i are not members of any religious denomination-------we have visited many/been told not to come back again by a couple but cannot find 1 yet that follows 100% the religion of the Messiah that is also the G-D of the old covenant (john 1:1-14)

what would be the point of joining the wrong religion ?

keeping the religion of the only true G-D has as its reward life forever while continuing to follow the wrong religion once you find out it is in error can end up in death forever(revelation 20:15)

reply to post by jmdewey60

In that sort of way to look at what is going on, you have to know that we are on purpose not given enough information to make proper judgemants.

That is very true. To do anything properly, to make the right decisions, we need knowledge and information. He who controls the information controls the people.
That is why it is our responsibility to gather unbiased information about whatever we plan to do.

It is very sad that people get brainwashed by power hungry people and fall under their control.
A terrorist does not beleave he is doing anything wrong. In his mind he is serving his god because his priest told him so.
He was told that if he kills non believers he will go to heaven not by his god but by other mortal humans controling him and his society.

No religion is wrong. They all teach us beautiful things and we must respect that however what is wrong is blind faith in the words of other people. What a priest/monk/prophet tells you is probabely his interpretation of the knowledge held in the teachings of a relegion.
It is up to us to understand it in light of the situation we are in and apply it to our lives in the right way.
Generally speaking the mantra live and let live works best.
Do what you want as long as you dont harm others.

Originally posted by raptorinvictus

No religion is wrong. They all teach us beautiful things and we must respect that however what is wrong is blind faith in the words of other people. What a priest/monk/prophet tells you is probabely his interpretation of the knowledge held in the teachings of a relegion.
It is up to us to understand it in light of the situation we are in and apply it to our lives in the right way.
Generally speaking the mantra live and let live works best.
Do what you want as long as you dont harm others.

how wonderfully politically correct of you.

if god doesn´t exist = doesn´t matter what you do.
if god does exist in non-person form = doesn´t matter what you do.
if god is a person, but doesn´t want to be worshiped = doesn´t matter what you do.
if god is a person, but wants to be worshiped = it does matter and there is a right and wrong way to serve him because let´s face it, he WOULD let us know how he wants to be worshiped.

i mean i know its wonderful and all to say to someone ¨it doesnt matter what you do, jesus loves you.¨ Noone likes to think that they could be doing something wrong. infact, it wouldn´t surprise me if alot of atheists feel the way they do because of that. because they dont like having rules that guide thier personal life.

but honestly now, do you think hitler is deserving of uncoditional love? what about the priests that raped children? suicide bombers? does it really make sense that god would say, oh well, your forgiven, enjoy heavenly bufet!

then it´s the question of if god does hold them accountable for thier sins, where does he draw the line? if we are all sinners then we are all deserving of death, then whats the point.

the fact is, forgiveness of one´s sins involves more than belief. more than political correctness. jesus said to strife through the narrow door. this implies effort. this implies that even though we are all sinners (christian and non) if we make an effort follow the principles of the bible, maybe, just maybe the ransom will ably for us.

do i think there is one true religion? undoubtably

reply to post by miriam0566


I think we are going a little off topic here.
The question that Res Ipsa asked is that why is your religion better.
My answer is that all religions have good teachings. There is no religion in the world that tells you to commit crimes or rape children. The problems start when humans mis-interpret religion or bend its teachings to suit their own needs.
All religions tell you to respect life and god's creations. No religion tells you to nuke the planet.
And i agre with Res in saying

I'm about the "golden rule" ....treat others as you would like to be treated.

If you truly beleave that a sucide bomber knows he is doing something wrong then think about this...would you fear a man with a knife who wants to steal your bread but knows that he is doing something very wrong and his guilt is getting to him or would you fear a mother who (is misinformed yet still) beleaves that you killed her child and wants revenge.

No one wakes up in the morning, thinks ''oh i am bored lets blow up a building for religious reasons''
You would only take drastic action only if you truly,deeply beleave in the cause and that is what people take advantage of.
They would brainwash you into beleaving that becoming a terrorist is the right thing to do and people with weak minds might fall for this.
As for forgiving hitler, it is people like him that do the brainwashing. Hitler said it is for race and country, The religious terrorist leaders say its for their god.

Also you said

if god doesn´t exist = doesn´t matter what you do.

If you truly beleave that then try answering this.
Do you only do the right thing because god tell you?
and if there was no concequence on you for mass murder you would do it just because you can and get away with it?
Would you steal if you know you can not get caught?
The answers might scare you.


In the end i would like to get back to the topic again and say all religions have their good points, most of which are common but in different contexts.
They exist to help us live in peace and happiness. Not to destroy us

Originally posted by raptorinvictus
I think we are going a little off topic here.
The question that Res Ipsa asked is that why is your religion better.
My answer is that all religions have good teachings. There is no religion in the world that tells you to commit crimes or rape children. The problems start when humans mis-interpret religion or bend its teachings to suit their own needs.
All religions tell you to respect life and god's creations. No religion tells you to nuke the planet.

totally, i apologise for not completely understanding what you wrote.

And i agre with Res in saying

I'm about the "golden rule" ....treat others as you would like to be treated.

the world would be a different place is people actually followed this rule.

If you truly beleave that a sucide bomber knows he is doing something wrong then think about this...would you fear a man with a knife who wants to steal your bread but knows that he is doing something very wrong and his guilt is getting to him or would you fear a mother who (is misinformed yet still) beleaves that you killed her child and wants revenge.

is that really what you think crime is motivated by? misunderstanding? hardship? i won´t deny that in some of the cases it is like you say, but im pretty sure the majority is not. the majority steal because they want it. because they don´t want to work for the things they want. trust me, i´ve lived my life around these people.

ill be honest with you though, i may not be replying correctly as i dont fully understand your point here

No one wakes up in the morning, thinks ''oh i am bored lets blow up a building for religious reasons''
You would only take drastic action only if you truly,deeply beleave in the cause and that is what people take advantage of.
They would brainwash you into beleaving that becoming a terrorist is the right thing to do and people with weak minds might fall for this.
As for forgiving hitler, it is people like him that do the brainwashing. Hitler said it is for race and country, The religious terrorist leaders say its for their god.

brainwashing only goes so far. people have to want to believe. germans went along with the nazis because they felt part of something bigger. there is plenty of testimony of people saying that it felt good being patriotic. yes it was hysteria but in the end, people still supported a murderous regimen.

what im saying now isnt nessasrily addressed to you, but there are people (christians even) that believe god will love you no matter what you do, and that he will forgive you no matter what your beliefs or attitudes. to say that is to ignore the fact that there ARE evil people in this world. to say that is little more than paying lips service to the god of political correctness

Also you said

if god doesn´t exist = doesn´t matter what you do.

If you truly beleave that then try answering this.
Do you only do the right thing because god tell you?
and if there was no concequence on you for mass murder you would do it just because you can and get away with it?
Would you steal if you know you can not get caught?
The answers might scare you.

exactly, i would venture to say that the only reason people as a majority aren´t literally and to an extreme doing whatever the hell they want is because of a fear of paying for their sins. not just against god but also against the state.

really think about the question.... if god doesnt exist, and our life are nothing more than a brief blow of the wind in the grand scheme of things, what is the point? life is pointless, morality is pointless, suffering so that others can have a better life is pointless.