WOT: Differences between Catholics/Muslims

I'm surprised that no one has started a thread over the lastest religious 'showings' which show a tremendous difference between radical islam and christianity.

When the Arch-Bishop was murdered in Iraq last week did Catholics rise up and riot? No.
Have any 'well known muslim clerics come out against the murder?
No. Not that I know of.

When a cartoon was reprinted in Denmark, did radical muslims riot?
Yes.

What happens when a muslim cleric is killed? Do radicals riot?
Yes.

I think it shows a major difference between the ideologies.

There seems to be many more radicals in Islam than Christianity.

[edit on 20-3-2008 by ferretman2]

My feeling is that the thread you have started here is thinly veiled anti-Islamic rhetoric which should have no place here...we all agreed to 'Deny Ignorance' at our joining here, and I ask you to do the same

I am not a Muslim, neither am I Christian, Jew, or Bhuddist, I follow my heart and my own path...but I see the beauty of poetry in the Koran just as I do in the Bible, the Torah, and many other texts of philosophy...to drink from many rivers will surely quench any thirst.

Live and let live, isn't that the mantra of all faiths?

Islam is a religion of tolerance, acceptance, civility and citizenship, just as all others, and is as equal as all others. Open your mind and the rest will follow

peace

If your average Muslim lived the same life as the average Catholic, then you'd have a point. As it is, such direct comparisons of massive groups of people spread across the globe, under different governments, levels of security, financial stability, and even social history, is going to be problematic from the get-go. They're just not comparable.

We've seen what Christian fanatics can do (kill doctors, blow up civilians, execute unarmed people in front of their families, etc.) but when we see that, we're quick to put it down to the problems those Christians are facing, and not tar the entire Christian faith with the same brush. I guess that might be because we're more familiar with Christianity and Christians than Islam and Muslims.

Another issue is that many Muslims don't see countries. They simply see Muslims all around the world as compatriots, so when something happens to some Muslims somewhere, they see it as an attack on themselves. That might be down to some sort of defense mechanism where oppressed people (whether actually oppressed or merely perceiving oppression) stick together to tough it out, which would make sense seeing as many Muslims live in areas full of the resources that (literally) fuel western economies, areas that have seen forced regime changes, occupation, and bloody violence, over the years, perpetrated by external forces they can't differentiate between (much as we, as a whole, can't differentiate between a Muslim person's actions and the rest of Islam, many Muslims might not know the difference between a US soldier, a Canadian soldier, a German citizen, and George bush, which would not help interpreting current affairs).

I'm not ascribing racist motives to anyone wishing to discuss this (including citizen smith), or even to the people who fail to seperate the person from Islam. I think it's perfectly understandable why the west has this weird view of Islam. Just because I understand it doesn't mean I have to accept it.

We assume too much. It's too easy to simply transpose our cushy lives with the lives of the Muslims we see on TV, and say to ourselves "I wouldn't do that. How horrible that person must be", without fully understanding the years, possibly generations, of history that lead to that person doing what they did.

People are flawed. Religions are flawed. Right now, the crunch is being put on Islam. A crunch Christianity hasn't felt since the Roman empire decided it was pretty groovy, nearly 2,000 years ago.

I detest any killing. I know wars are sometimes necessary, but I believe when we start to fight, we've already lost. A dead Muslim is the same as a dead Jew or a dead Christian - they've left families behind to grieve for them, as our families and loved-ones would grieve for us.

Terrorism, in any form, committed by any perpetrator, is horrific.

Rant over

I'm not being 'anti-muslim'. I think it is a valid point. I specifically mentioned RADICAL Islam.............attempting to separating it from mainstream Islam.

Radicals have perverted the Koran. Numerous Islamic scholars have stated this fact.

Yet where are the Fatwa's (from Catholics or Muslims) against the Arch-Bishops murder? There are none in which I am aware of.

Are Christians (even the radical ones) kidnapping/murderering/rioting/blowing things up in response to this? No..not that I have seen.

Are Christians more forgiving? Is it due to the different ideals presented in the religious material? Or is the books transulated incorrectly?

Your post, ferretman2, seems deliberately structured to fault Muslims (or Islam), albeit through somewhat misleading comparisons. I refer to the following statements you made (my emphasis on words in bold):

When the Arch-Bishop was murdered in Iraq last week did Catholics rise up and riot? No.

Implied comparison to

When a cartoon was reprinted in Denmark, did radical Muslims riot?
Yes.

You further conclude that the ideologies are different simply because one appears to have spawned more radicals. But think carefully about the difference. You have offered no evidence or commentary involving radical Catholics. You also neglected to comment on the ideologies themselves, but instead chosen to analyze them based on the actions of a group of radicals, as you specified.

I was raised Catholic in a country with an over 50% Muslim population, so I had Muslim friends. I wasn't in the US on 9/11, but I heard about it, not through the jubilation of "Muslims" on the street (there was none around me), but through the news. I can state with some confidence that yours is a misperception based on an incomplete look at the situation. My suggestion: make a Muslim friend.

Well, I'll be the one to respond without all the P.C. sugar coated goodness. I'm not a big fan of Catholicism or Islam but here it goes.

Yes, the archbishop was kidnapped and murdered. We hear a couple of outspoken speeches by the pope and other Catholic leaders and pundits. Just imagine for a moment if Catholics had done this to an Islamic cleric. Holy heck, I'd be moving to a moon base for safety.

The things that the Catholic church did during the inquisition makes me want to vomit. The things radical Islam is doing now makes me want to vomit. Abortion clinic bombers, Sharia law, and witch burnings all make me want to vomit.

So, sorry. Islam is not going to be receiving any special treatment from me by letting the excuses It's just our culture or We're lashing out due to oppression work.

Catholics went through their dark age several centuries ago. Islam is going through their dark ages now. I've been asked to be patient until they reach their enlightenment. Sorry! What both religions have done make me want to puke. I don't come to the defense of whacked out Christians (my faith) and I am not going to be silent about the atrocities I see coming from another faith.

It blows my mind to see how one-sided everything is and I'm not even a Catholic. The very same people I see talking nonsense about Christianity almost always seem to be the first to jump in and defend [radical] Islam. I'd rather call a spade a spade regardless of your label.

reply to post by AshleyD


I'm inclined to believe that your one-sided view is a result of focusing only on your view. I address two things:

The inquisition, perpetrated in the name of the Catholic church, was fueled by one man; Tomas de Torquemada. If you must hate anyone for initiating those atrocities, hate him. Blaming the Catholic church is like saying, "Jews killed Jesus" or "Germans killed the Jews."

Second, Islam is not going through a dark age. The wrongs of one's age always seem outrageous when compared with previous times. May I remind you that Christianity and Islam have waged their share of wars? Must I throw the 'Christian' thinking upon which this country was founded? The same one that saw many Native Americans lose their homes?

Islam is not to blame; people are. It is hypocritical to think otherwise; these two religions are not the only ones that have recorded bloodshed in human history. Furthermore, I present this travesty of violence by Christians against Christians. I don't believe the tenets of Catholicism have changed since then -- except the Pope minus Limbo thing. What changed, then?

People.

Let us stop ostracizing others with ignorance. Islam is no more to blame for anything than Christianity is. People chose to interpret these religions as incitements to violence: you should worry about them, and what provokes such thinking, instead of blaming what (they later believe) approves of the decision.

Did radical Catholics become terrorists in the IRA and resort to violence? Yes.

Do radical muslims become terrorists and resprt to violence? Yes.

The key word there is radical.

Originally posted by Mr Jackdaw
I'm inclined to believe that your one-sided view is a result of focusing only on your view. I address two things:

It's amusing how when I brought up all parties the accusation of being 'one sided' is still thrown around.

The inquisition, perpetrated in the name of the Catholic church, was fueled by one man; Tomas de Torquemada. If you must hate anyone for initiating those atrocities, hate him. Blaming the Catholic church is like saying, "Jews killed Jesus" or "Germans killed the Jews."

I'm sorry but I don't know how to see it any other way. Torguemada was not the sole perpetrator. It would be like saying don't blame the Nazis because Hitler started it all. Now, I know that analogy is a little over the top and 'off' because it would be better to say in this analogy, 'Don't blame the Germans because Hitler started it all.' And that is exactly what I am about to say:

As I've said a million times, although I don't approve of the Catholic denomination, I still consider them my brothers and sisters in Christ. But what the leaders did during the inquisition was inexcusable. Any form of violence and cruelty is inexcusable in my opinion and I will continue to be appalled by it. It becomes even more inexcusable when what they claimed to do was in the name of the faith when the faith itself instructs not to do such things.

I really don't want to get into bashing Catholicism. I don't approve of the structure but at least they are peaceful today. Therein lies the difference between what is going on today in terms of radical terrorism in the Middle East. I don't care what flag is being flown- radicalism and violence makes my stomach turn.

Second, Islam is not going through a dark age. The wrongs of one's age always seem outrageous when compared with previous times.

Hm. I had a Muslim tell me on another thread that it was. Let me know what angle everyone would like to use in this discussion and I will go the same route. I can't catch the gingerbread man.

May I remind you that Christianity and Islam have waged their share of wars?

No need to remind me.

Must I throw the 'Christian' thinking upon which this country was founded? The same one that saw many Native Americans lose their homes?

More Gingerbread Men.

Islam is not to blame; people are.

I agree with this and have stated this many, many times. Not only that, but what is going on is not the average person of the faith but the radicals. Funny though, I can never get anyone to understand this when they bring up abortion clinic bombers or the Salem Witch trials in order to throw it in my face. Do you mind if I quote you on this from now on? Maybe they'll listen to you when you say it because they surely aren't listening to me when I say it.

[edit on 3/20/2008 by AshleyD]

Oh, no one seems to listen to me. If they do, I am unaware of it. Perhaps it is for the better.

The crux of my stance is that the labels are not to blame, but the people are (and I am glad you agree with me). I do not wish to approve or disapprove of religions; the fact remains that those who perform actions are responsible for them, and not the ideology the actors adhere to. The ideologies form an abstract base; if it were truly to blame, then every religious adherent would be a fundamentalist. My reference to the founding of this country also did not concern the Founding Fathers (or their faith), but the more well-known "Manifest Destiny," which I learned in an American History class. That [Manifest Destiny] was an interpretation of Christian teaching, and it cost lives.

But instead of accusing Christianity of untold crime, I will point out that the suffering associated with Manifest Destiny taught later generations (us) the dangers of interpreting Religious belief in such self-serving ways; without [Manifest Destiny], yet another dangerous interpretation might have arisen, causing just as much -- or more -- damage. Perhaps we landed on a new planet and found it inhabited: Would we drive out its inhabitants and plague the planet with diseases, or would we assume a more cautious approach?

Why should we look for reasons to hate Muslims, when the same lop-sided view is what spurs fundamentalists to hate 'America'?

Also, my reference to your 'one-sided' p.o.v was a direct response to your statement. In my perspective, you perceive things as one-sided because you look at them that way; you may believe you're on the side that 'makes the most sense', therefore alternate viewpoints will always seem to be missing the point. I can understand that you feel that way, especially if it is guided by your beliefs (the Bible as "the word of God," perhaps). However, I'm speaking on behalf of more than one side here. I don't see Muslims, or Christians. I see people who don't understand each other because each thinks the other is different. And in that view, they are all very alike.