Shooting Stars and Ancient Astrology

Not sure if this is in the right forum so apologies if not! Please feel free to relocate it to the right forum

Last night on my way home from work, I saw a shooting star. Now that is nothing unusal, I realise that. But, the star seemed so close to me.
It appeared to fall into the ocean, almost right out the front of my front door (I live on the coast)

I started to 'wonder'... LOL

After what I saw here:
Tarantula Nebula

In the above link, I saw people living in stars but they were invisible and from that, I started to think about astrology, the constellations of the stars and various myths.

www.astro.com...
ancient astrology

When people are born they have their own star chart. So, I wonder, whatever sign corresponds to us, perhaps that is where our home is, where our soul resides in between incarnations?

My thoughts regarding this isn't really that crazy when we consider Mayan beliefs:

The Maya believed that stars and constellations, the planets and the moon, were living beings who interacted with the cycles, natural and social, of the Middleworld or physical world (Sacred Space, Holy Time and The Maya World, page 76). (1)Mesoamerican Astrology

I considered also that maybe the shooting star burning up and falling could depict a birth of a child? Or maybe as a star dies, it could be the death of someone?



[edit on 7-3-2008 by Thurisaz]

As you said Thurisaz, this probably belongs on another forum since it's more related to astrology than astronomy/meteors. My bet would be the "Predictions" forum, since astrology is mostly to do with predictions.

My one comment on the subject would be that, watching meteors certainly seems to stimulate thought, at least in my experience, and it's good to know I'm not alone in this

In my case, it brings home how insignificant we are in this great universe, and on the one rare occasion that I have been fortunate enough to observe a meteor storm, the effect created gives you a good impression of just how fast we are actually traveling though space. Truly awesome and humbling on many levels!

Originally posted by C.H.U.D.
My one comment on the subject would be that, watching meteors certainly seems to stimulate thought, at least in my experience, and it's good to know I'm not alone in this

yes thanks for the reply. I agree as most of the time I think I think very different things! LOL so good to see your response. We are not alone!

In my case, it brings home how insignificant we are in this great universe, and on the one rare occasion that I have been fortunate enough to observe a meteor storm, the effect created gives you a good impression of just how fast we are actually traveling though space. Truly awesome and humbling on many levels!

Yes, I got to experience a terrific thunderstorm. Now, they happen all the time but I live right across from the beach and standing on my verandah, I got to see the most amazing electrical storm. The lightning was hitting the water and bouncing back up the colour purple. It was like that for about 30 minutes. I was very content with that and was yanno, ga ga over it.

I have never seen a meteor storm, but if its anything like the electrical thunderstorm, then it would be 5 star viewing, imo.

I am impressed with what the Mayans have to offer up with respect to the stars. It is great when I think something and then discover, there is something to it in a myth or science.

Back to primary school for me.. how embarrassing

A "falling star" or a "shooting star" has nothing at all to do with a star! These amazing streaks of light you can sometimes see in the night sky are caused by tiny bits of dust and rock called meteoroids falling into the Earth's atmosphere and burning up. The short-lived trail of light the burning meteoroid produces is called a meteor. Meteors are commonly called falling stars or shooting stars. If any part of the meteoroid survives burning up and actually hits the Earth, that remaining bit is then called a meteorite.Shooting Stars

I have learnt something today!

A shooting star is the common name for the visible path of a meteoroid as it enters the atmosphere.wiki

Obviously, what I saw last night, was a fragment of meteor.

There are millions of such particles colliding with the atmosphere every day (I mean day and night). But since you can only see them at night, and you can only look at a small part of the sky at once, when stargazing you can expect to see a shooting star every 10 to 15 minutes.source

I have always felt stars were living... perhaps I am a descendant of the Mayans... LOL

Tis a funny thing to think, but then as I said before, I think different things most of the time

EDIT:

The Tarantula nebula is the largest emission nebula in the sky and also one of the largest known star-forming regions in all the Milky Way's neighbouring galaxies. Located about 170,000 light-years away, in the southern constellation Dorado (The Swordfish), it can be seen with the unaided eye.source

ok, so at the risk of illustrating how basic my understanding is
I think it is weird that the Tarantula nebula is the largest star forming region... that is why they refer to it as the Cosmic Spider is Good Mother so, creates life... how is it that a meteor (I still like to refer to them as shooting stars) is nothing more than a tiny bit of dust?

EDIT X 2:

While most meteorites come from asteroids, it has been speculated that some may come from cometssource

A comet is a small astral body, similar in construction to a planet.source

NB 'astral body'...



[edit on 7-3-2008 by Thurisaz]





[edit on 7-3-2008 by Thurisaz]

I'm also a keen watcher of thunder storms... all that power released in such a short space of time is mind blowing to say the least. I'm sure you would enjoy a meteor storm just as much as myself from the sound of it! In many ways, I find meteors to be more impressive, when you look at the numbers involved, and the fact that it's something ET that is causing it!

Unfortunately, there are none predicted for the near future, although there are certainly some good opportunities to watch some relatively modest (by comparison) showers every year. This year is not so good, but keep an eye on this forum and you will see posts about up-coming meteor showers that you can observe. It's possible to see a few hundred meteors under good conditions during a major annual meteor shower, although there are no guarantees, and a few well placed nights observing may be in order to see that many.

Originally posted by Thurisaz
Back to primary school for me.. how embarressing

< snip >

I have learnt something today!

I'm glad my post led you to learn something new. That is after all what this place is all about

I'm not altogether unsurprised that you might not have learnt about meteors before. I myself was never taught about them (or anything else besides the very basics of astronomy) when I was at school (many years ago now!), and it seems to be a trend that I find quite saddening, that our children are not being taught about the wonders of the night sky.

It's like we have lost something that is very deep-rooted in us - a connection to the stars, which people have cherished for thousands of years, and now it all but hidden from us (by light pollution), and ignored by the vast majority (through no fault of their own).

I was lucky in that I had an interest from quite a young age, when I went to stay on a farm in the countryside (I've always lived in the city) for my summer holidays, and I remember gazing up at the stars there and seeing my first meteor when I was about 12 years old. But it wasn't till I was in my late 20's when I first saw what really got me interest in the night sky and meteors in particular.

That was the Leonid meteor shower of 1998 which, although technically not a storm, which is more than 2000 meteors every hour(ZHR) some still refer to it as a "storm" due to the unusually bright fireballs that night was noted for!

I was hooked after that, and even flew half way round the world from my home here in the UK to your amazing country to observe the 2001 Leonid meteor storm which is the event I mentioned in my last post. It was an experience I'll never forget for as long as I live!

Originally posted by Thurisaz
Obviously, what I saw last night, was a fragment of meteor.

Not quite - it was a meteor. A meteor is a fragment of a comet or an asteroid.

Originally posted by Thurisaz
I have always felt stars were living... perhaps I am a descendant of the Mayans... LOL

Stars could well be "alive", although perhaps in a slightly different sense to how we define life... I'm with you on the Mayans thing. They probably knew many things that we have yet to discover!

[edit on 7-3-2008 by C.H.U.D.]

[edit on 7-3-2008 by C.H.U.D.]

Originally posted by Thurisaz
ok, so at the risk of illustrating how basic my understanding is

I think it is weird that the Tarantula nebula is the largest star forming region...

< snip >

so, creates life... how is it that a meteor (I still like to refer to them as shooting stars) is nothing more than a tiny bit of dust?

There is a link between true stars and "shooting stars"...

Firstly, you need to understand a little about star formation. Basically it's just another cycle. Stars are born in the star forming regions like the one you mentioned, and they eventually die, scattering their dust in all directions. This dust will eventually coalesce to form new stars over much time, and so the cycle continues.

In the process of forming stars, some dust gets left over, which forms planets and we believe, the left over bits form comets and asteroids, which is where meteors come from. There is probably more to it than that, but that's the basic gist of it as far as we can tell at this time. It's worth remembering that we are also made from that same dust that once was a star, so we really are deeply connected to stars!

To answer your question, the reason a tiny particle of dust can produce the phenomenon we call a meteor (I'm guessing you are amazed by the sheer brightness such a small thing can be responsible for here) is because they are orbiting the sun at very high speeds!

When even a small meteoroid hits our atmosphere, relative to the Earth's motion through space, it can be traveling anywhere between 11 km/s and ~78 km/s. At that kind of velocity, a large amount of energy is released as light (and heat) as the meteor slams into the molecules that make up our atmosphere. The process is so violent (despite the thin atmosphere), that we can easily see the bright light produced on a clear night, even by a relatively small meteoroid.

Keep in mind that not all are so small, and if you spend time watching you will inevitably see meteors burn up that started off the size of small pebbles, or even the size of a small melon. These can produce really spectacular fireballs! What you saw may have been a bit larger than a "sand grain"!

If you are really lucky you might see a bolide (an exceptionally bright fireball). There have been a few in recent weeks - this time of year is very good for them! See this thread I posted not long ago for instance. There is also a video of the from another recent super-bolide which shows just how bright events like this can be! Something like that may have started off the size of a car!

When something like that hits our atmosphere, it registers on the US DOD satellite detectors which were designed to look for unauthorized nuclear tests! Unfortunately the US government has stopped making such data available to the public now. It used to be freely available on the web up till about 2004!

Hope that answers your questions


[edit on 7-3-2008 by C.H.U.D.]

Originally posted by C.H.U.D.
... the fact that it's something ET that is causing it!

oh this is something that I know very little about, so the above is very interesting! If you have the time, maybe you could expand on this?

This year is not so good, but keep an eye on this forum and you will see posts about up-coming meteor showers that you can observe.

I will definitely do that! I need to buy a new telescope asap so I can watch the sky. I have seen so many unusual things lately. I would even like to set up some recording equipment to 'catch' the things I have seen.

Like a shooting star going backwards and it joined up with another star that seemed to have an aura around it. When it joined up, the aura went away and in a split second, it was a bright star again. Not sure what it was, but my friend and I both saw it and she saw it moving first and said, "hey, I don't know what that is, but it is weird"...and it was. So, yes I would love to get a really state of the art scope and DVD recorder to just get some of the things I see when I gaze up with my own eyes!

Not sure if I could get anything that would do that? I would spend the money in an instant! Even if it is big dollars!

I'm glad my post led you to learn something new. That is after all what this place is all about

Yes it is, so thank you for taking the time to post!

I'm not altogether unsurprised that you might not have learnt about meteors before. I myself was never taught about them (or anything else besides the very basics of astronomy) when I was at school (many years ago now!), and it seems to be a trend that I find quite saddening, that our children are not being taught about the wonders of the night sky.

Your absolutely right here. I was taught nothing at school either about astronomy and it is not in my Son's School curriculum either. Such a shame! My Daughter has finished school and astronomy wasn't even an option for her to study.

and now it all but hidden from us (by light pollution), and ignored by the vast majority (through no fault of their own).

Yes, fortunately, both of my kids, I have educated them myself so my Son has his own telescope (he lives in Melbourne with his Dad and we both watched the Blood Moon together, via phone whilst both at the telescope.) My Daughter (17) is smarter than me!
She just got back from Hong Kong and China in Feb. When she came back she was so surprised how polluted HK was and the fact that most nights, she could not see the stars

And she was really affected by the poverty in China too.

That was the Leonid meteor shower of 1998 which, although technically not a storm, which is more than 2000 meteors every hour(ZHR) some still refer to it as a "storm" due to the unusually bright fireballs that night was noted for!

Did anyone record this shower? I will have a look on You Tube and everywhere else as I would like to see it!

and even flew half way round the world from my home here in the UK to your amazing country to observe the 2001 Leonid meteor storm It was an experience I'll never forget for as long as I live!

Well that is something I would do too

Stars could well be "alive", although perhaps in a slightly different sense to how we define life... I'm with you on the Mayans thing. They probably knew many things that we have yet to discover!

Yes, absolutely. I am so interested in this, if it weren't for the meditation, I wouldn't have even searched for info, nor found out about the Tarantula Nebula... so that in itself is quite extraordinary.





[edit on 8-3-2008 by Thurisaz]

Originally posted by C.H.U.D.
It's worth remembering that we are also made from that same dust that once was a star, so we really are deeply connected to stars!

Oh how fantastic!

When I first read about meteors I thought, well we were supposed to have been made from dust, so maybe there is the connection? And then, here I see you have provided the very same thing I was thinking!

These can produce really spectacular fireballs! What you saw may have been a bit larger than a "sand grain"!

Oh wow, that is amazing. A bit larger than sand grain... it really is fascinating.

See this thread I posted not long ago for instance...

Your links are my next on my agenda
EDIT: Just looked at all the links, I said wow about 10 times over the images here: Great Leonids in 2001 WOW!

Unfortunately the US government has stopped making such data available to the public now. It used to be freely available on the web up till about 2004!

so many issues here. Why stop making the data available? Perhaps it was economical/budget reasons but astronomy is not in the curriculum, combine that with not releasing information ... it just makes me wonder why?

Hope that answers your questions

Oh yes, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge here. I am very grateful to receive it!!





[edit on 8-3-2008 by Thurisaz]

It is titled Leonid Meteor Shower but I watched it and there was only one or two meteors, eerie music with it!


This one is great. Really good clear images:


There is a lot on You Tube so I won't post anymore vids unless I find anything really exceptional = 5 ***** but was very happy to see the footage

EDIT TO ADD = this one is 4 1/2 stars: LOL

Great Great footage here:




[edit on 8-3-2008 by Thurisaz]

Originally posted by Thurisaz

Originally posted by C.H.U.D.
... the fact that it's something ET that is causing it!

oh this is something that I know very little about, so the above is very interesting! If you have the time, maybe you could expand on this?

Anything that did not originate here on Earth can be considered to be "extra terrestrial". That doesn't necessarily mean little gray men are involved

Originally posted by Thurisaz
I will definitely do that! I need to buy a new telescope asap so I can watch the sky. I have seen so many unusual things lately. I would even like to set up some recording equipment to 'catch' the things I have seen.

Like a shooting star going backwards and it joined up with another star that seemed to have an aura around it. When it joined up, the aura went away and in a split second, it was a bright star again. Not sure what it was, but my friend and I both saw it and she saw it moving first and said, "hey, I don't know what that is, but it is weird"...and it was. So, yes I would love to get a really state of the art scope and DVD recorder to just get some of the things I see when I gaze up with my own eyes!

A telescope is a good idea for sure. Great for looking at planets, the moon, galaxies, and NEOs. If you want to photograph stuff through one you can too, but some will be much better for photography (if you want to make high resolution/publishable photographs). For filming general stuff, most scopes should do.

Someone who has a scope will be able to give you better advice... I have a long photographic lens which doubles as a short focal length (for a telescope) telescope, which is enough for me, as my interest is mainly in naked-eye observing (meteors), and wide angle sky photography.

Edit to add: the event you describe above, sounds like odd behavior for a meteor. More details would be required to confirm what it might have been, but in general, meteors stick to a fixed set of behaviors - they are fast (compared to other stuff in the sky) usually, they fly along a straight path and do not slow down/speed up/stop. They can fly in any direction, even "up" from the horizon - don't confuse this with flying "up from the ground"! They can show many colors. Most will only be visible for under a second, though in extremely rare cases they can last for up to ~45 seconds. You'd have to be lucky to see one last for more than 5 seconds, let alone that long!

Originally posted by Thurisaz
Not sure if I could get anything that would do that? I would spend the money in an instant! Even if it is big dollars!

As I said, it depends what you want to catch, if it's just general stuff, see above. If you want to try and catch meteors, you need wide angle lenses, and an image intensifier for the fainter meteors. Fireballs don't require an intensifier, but you'll need to run your camera for at least a few nights to have any chance of catching one, unless it's during a shower peak. It's possible to spend quite allot depending on your intended purpose.

I'm just interested in catching still photographs of meteors using DSLRs and ordinary camera lenses. If you want advice on the equipment and how best to to this, I can go into detail!

For general "ufo" photography, look in the UFO forum for advice.

Originally posted by Thurisaz
Did anyone record this shower? I will have a look on You Tube and everywhere else as I would like to see it!

Unfortunately, very little that I know of, apart from a few photographs. The outburst that night caught everybody off guard, as it occurred the night before the predicted peak of the shower. It was by pure chance that I noticed what was happening, and it's the reason I became interested in photography - I vowed that night that I would have a camera at hand for the next time.

There is however lots of footage (and photographs) from the 2001 storm. U2U me and I'll send some over to you if you are interested.

[edit on 8-3-2008 by C.H.U.D.]

[edit on 8-3-2008 by C.H.U.D.]

Originally posted by Thurisaz

Your links are my next on my agenda

EDIT: Just looked at all the links, I said wow about 10 times over the images here: Great Leonids in 2001 WOW!

Just a taster really, but they are impressive images for sure! Nothing can compare to actually being there though

Here are a few more links which I have saved:
tagoshu.cool.ne.jp...
www.astr.ua.edu...
A lovely video of a Taurid fireball on this page
www.astropix.com...
jegog.phys.nagoya-u.ac.jp...
Some background and history of the Leonids

Of course there are many other showers and there have been outbursts/storms which were not caused by the Leonids, but none as great as the Leonids in recent history. I wish I had been born 15 or so years earlier, so that I might have had a chance to witness the great storm of 1966.

Edit to add this quote taken from the source above:

James W. Young was then an assistant resident astronomer at Jet Propulsion Laboratory's Table Mountain Observatory in 1966. Table Mountain Observatory is located some 45 miles northeast of Los Angeles, at an elevation of 7500 feet. He related the following account to me in November 1996--

The 1966 Leonid Meteor Shower was observed ... on the morning of November 17 starting at 2:30 AM through heavy clouds. By 3:30 AM, the clouds had completely cleared while the intensity of the shower continued to grow.

Around 4:45 AM the shower seemed to peak with the sky filled with meteor trails everywhere! The estimated peak of 50/second lasted for about 10 minutes. During the event, as observed by the five members present, we photographed over 1000 meteor trails, including a dozen fireballs, the brightest one being -12 magnitude! A total of 22 fireballs were seen by the group. During the peak, everyone felt like we needed hard-hats, as the intensity was so great when we blinked our eyes open (instead of closed), the sky was full of streaks everywhere!

Originally posted by Thurisaz
so many issues here. Why stop making the data available? Perhaps it was economical/budget reasons but astronomy is not in the curriculum, combine that with not releasing information ... it just makes me wonder why?

These are certainly questions than need answering. I have no idea why, but it does seem a bit suspicious - what do they want to hide? There is not much expense in maintaining a web page with the data, so I doubt it's because of economical reasons. This is a whole new topic though, and probably deserves it's own thread!

Originally posted by Thurisaz
Oh yes, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge here. I am very grateful to receive it!!

You're welcome Thurisaz. It's a topic that I'm passionate about, and I'm only too happy to share what I know about it.


[edit on 8-3-2008 by C.H.U.D.]

reply to post by Thurisaz


There is some nice general footage of meteors on you-tube, though mostly non-Leonids and individual meteors/fireballs/bolides.

Here are a couple that I recommend watching:

uk.youtube.com...
uk.youtube.com...

Originally posted by C.H.U.D.
Just a taster really, but they are impressive images for sure! Nothing can compare to actually being there though

LOL yes I am jealous!! I prolly would have passed out if I had saw it!
I am ga ga over the images as it is...

Thank you for the links... I have really learnt a lot from your help...so again at the risk of being repetitive, thank you!

These are certainly questions than need answering. I have no idea why, but it does seem a bit suspicious - what do they want to hide? There is not much expense in maintaining a web page with the data, so I doubt it's because of economical reasons. This is a whole new topic though, and probably deserves it's own thread!

Yes it does deserve a thread of its own. I will be right in there contributing as soon as you get it going!!



[edit on 8-3-2008 by Thurisaz]

Originally posted by C.H.U.D.
There is a link between true stars and "shooting stars"...

In the process of forming stars, some dust gets left over, which forms planets and we believe, the left over bits form comets and asteroids, which is where meteors come from. There is probably more to it than that, but that's the basic gist of it as far as we can tell at this time. It's worth remembering that we are also made from that same dust that once was a star, so we really are deeply connected to stars!

well in a recent meditation that is what I have seen. I saw 'me' in a tiny white star. I then saw the colour change to blue, then I saw that other star dust created other things. I saw how my star faded. That happened whenI came to Earth.

These images are GREAT!!! The link will take you to other images of the brilliance of our universe:

Infant Stars in the Small Magellanic Cloud

Supernova 1987A: Halo for a Vanished Star

It has been hard to find an image of what I saw in meditation.
The closest thing to it was this: (but the colours are wrong as it is a diagram. I saw my energy spiraling perfectly around me. I was in the centre, the positive +++) and started off like this:

a neutral atom

then I saw other 'stardust/energy' joining up with me, I changed to this:

Carbon-12: 6 protons + 6 neutrons

The “atomic number” of an atom is equal to the number of protons in its nucleusGreat info!! Click here

Perhaps that is really all I am? Perhaps I got to see that I am just star dust/energy that changes with environs, other energy?

atomic structure

When I came out of the meditation, I kept thinking that it reminded me of a flower. The star looked like a flower. It ended up with many petals but it was perfectly balanced, so both equal number of neutrons and protons.

flower of life image (but there was no border around my flower)

and this image flower of life crop circle

I saw then when I was the flower/star/energy other stars around me:

ancient flower of life

I saw the energy in motion, energy reactions or a flow of energy. I saw it perfectly synchronized and thought that perfection was Ezekiel's Wheels. I definitely came away feeling that everyone had their own Ezekiel wheel (I saw the neutrons that were flowing around me where 'wheels') so many wheels, wheels within wheels. But I saw a lot of energy around me that was not in balance or flow of the cosmos.

















[edit on 22-4-2008 by Thurisaz]

OMG you should check out the night sky.

For the last two nights, I have seen stars move around.
It is eerie. A very bright star that 'lives' in the same spot is to the left of my house moved right in front of my eyes.

1. Farout, I went to the shop and when I was driving back home (the road is way way to the left of my house and the star) and I looked up and directly in front of me was the bright star. I was like BS... 'that star is the bright one to the left of my house'... so I look over to where the star usually is and it isn't there. There are lots of little twinkles but big bright stars...not that many.

I get onto the Esplanade (where my house is) and the star vanishes. I look in front of me to see where the star normally is and its not there, not twinkling. (It was not a cloudy night either!)

Then I pull into my drive way and get out of my car. I walk out the front of my house and I watch the bright star shine very brightly once more.

??????

2. I am in my bedroom and I wake up at 5 am in the morning. The curtains are open and I just ly in bed looking out my window at the stars. I do this for ages and wanted to see the night sky slowing disappear with the sunrise. Well, I focus on the stars to the left on my house. I look and there is three stars in a line. As the sun comes up, I saw the little star in the middle just go for a walk. That is what is seemed to do. As if a star can move horizontally like that when all the other stars are staying where they are. I ended up having my head out of my window watching this little star move.

????

All I can say, is check out the night sky... watch it because there are some weird things going on.

Hey Thurisaz,

Glad to hear you're still watching the sky

For your first point, the cause was probably you becoming disoriented. It can easily happen, especially if you don't know the stars that well. For example, if you usually look at the sky out of a particular window, and you notice where a star is in relation to another object/building.

Then if you go somewhere else, and look at where you think was the same place in the sky that you previously saw the star, but because you don't have that building/object that you saw out of the window, you misjudge the altitude you are supposed to be looking at, and possibly look slightly in the wrong direction, so you cant find "your star".

It's happened to me before, and I often have to check a map just to make sure. It can happen to anyone. I'd suggest you download software like Stellarium which shows you the positions of most celestial objects, so that you can check yourself, and learn to navigate around the night sky.

With your second point, the cause is almost certainly your eyes playing tricks on you. Since there are very few visual cues in the sky, unlike we are used to when viewing things on the ground in daylight, our brains easily become confused, and they actually "fill in the blanks". So even though there is no movement, something can appear to be moving.

A common example of this, is watching a satellite moving across the sky. Observers often see the satellite zig-zag along its path, even though satellites can only travel in a straight line. One of the first things you learn as an astronomer, is that you can't always trust your own eyes.

Another common example is the "moon illusion". The moon is always the same size, but when we observe it close to the horizon, it appears larger than when we see it high in the sky, since there are few visual cues (ie. the horizon), and our brains simply can't handle that, so they generate errors!