A Revisiting Ghost/Delusion

reply to post by saint4God


I never knew that tarrot cards where acult? well as far as ive ever known tarrot cards are used by psychics and not wiccans or pagans ^^

rest asured that i follow no religion, i only follow my own aspect of life and of science, so i dont beleive in such things as satanist's and wiccan's because there isnt much truth behind either religion, i would say that i use tarrots cards to help people and to test them, i dont really understand how they work but i have been using tarrot cards for about 3 years now so that probably isnt it

peace out

reply to post by enchantress62


Im sorry for worrying you enchantress but im not disturbed in any shape or form im more entrigued, not many people can say that they've been stalked by a ghost before ^_^

and what mister saint said isnt intirely true, he is obviously looking at how religions have used tarrot cards, for instance the gypsie's were fortune tellers, they received this title because they've used tarrot cards, and read many men and wemons fortunes.
And more religions have used tarrot cards in other ways such as contacting the dead, but rest assured before doing something i allways look at the consequences and then think if the gain over-ways the loss so to speak.

i dont mind mister saints deductive reasoning, neither does it bother me of anyones accusations. because i beleive that if everybody was judgemental then we wouldnt have the society that we have today.

also one last word of advice, if everybody followed one religion the world couldnt go round so to speak, because withought difference there isnt a society.

[edit on 8-3-2008 by Richard.M.J.Palmer]

Oh my! Ok, by playing with Tarrot cards and not knowing anything about them you are inviting trouble. If you don't even know what they are, then you obviouly don't know how to use them, and that's probably what's brought this trouble on you. Tarrot cards are a tool used for devination, and they are defenantly Pagan.

Look you don't have to adhere to any religious belief to use these things, but they do hold a certain power, rather that be a subconscious suggestion, or a spiritual power. The fact is they unlock a part of the brain that works with our imagination. No matter what you believe, you are playing with fire if you continue without understanding how to use them.

And just for the record, ppl perform magick everyday without knowing they are doing it. There are rules to follow when using magick of any kind and by not understanding it you can release forces that you wont know how to handle.

reply to post by enchantress62


so what your saying is that tarrot cards can attract angels, demons and ghosts etc, well i supose they could but i cant help it.

for all i know they could be lonely?

all i can say is that i love to see people happy and the only thing thats kept me so positive is seeing peoples faces as i use my deck, my deck is like apart of my soul i know the risks and i know it may seem stupid but the only thing to fear is fear itself enchantress.

if everybody was cautious then no-one would embrace life, and imagine how boring that would be, after all if i didnt use them i may not be on this forum right now ^_^

il tell you about my first and most clear encounter with a spirit/angel

Well this was around the time of the twin towers, ovcorse back then i had never even known what a ghost was, well to begin with i was being cheeky and i got sent to my room, at 3pm , so i decided i'd ly down on my bed, then i suddonly saw a figure standing at the door he was eminating with a white aura i could tell he wanted to tell me something, he was standing there so silently and alone, so i decided after 10-15 seconds of stairing at each other i'd get off my bed and go over to him, he simply swayed, turning his body to the room left of himself, i ran after him, he had vanished into a room withought an exit, i was alone and i started to cry, these were tears of being alone, the feelings that i gained that day have made me an outcast to normal society, i would like to tell you that i am fully aware of all my actions and that i dont care what happens to me, aslong as people are happy i will allways try to make them happy, if this had not happened that day then i'd probably of just turned out into a book worm or a jerk, so im glad that i can experiance such things in my life and im glad i can embrace them, im glad i can talk to people who have similar experiances and im mostly glad about that angel which clensed me and made me become a nice person, im glad for my life and im glad that i can share it with everybody.

thank you for your concern.

Originally posted by Richard.M.J.Palmer
reply to post by enchantress62

 

so what your saying is that tarrot cards can attract angels, demons and ghosts etc, well i supose they could but i cant help it.

No, what I'm saying is that using Tarrot cards, like using any form of magick, is something you should do with an understanding of how it works. I've been practicing Wicca for around 2 years now, and I'm still not fully convenced that magic is mystical, what I do know is that it works in ways that logic can't explain. When I first started I got excited, I saw the possibilities and yes I wanted to use it to make my life better and help my friends and family. What I learned immediately is that there are consequinces, and they are not always good. That was ok with me too, as long as what was happening only affected me, but when my kids and my friends started to pay the price then it wasn't so funny anymore.

I have a logical and analitical mind, it's hard for me to buy into the hocus pokus of it all. I was attracted to this religion because of the idea that I could change energy by focused intent. What I discovered right away is that it takes time, and knowledge to do that. In the mean time you're sending energy into the Universe randomly, and inviting things to you that you don't have knowledge of. Comming at it like that is much like shooting a gun while waving it in the air. Yes the gun is just a tool, and the bullets are not being directed at anyone, but what goes up must come down and the person standing a few yards away who gets shot in the head from one of those bullets isn't likely to see the innocense in it.

You're going to do whatever you want so it would be silly for me to waste time trying to talk you out of it, all I'm saying is educate yourself. If you're going to use a tool, then learn how to use it properly, it will be a lot more effective for you and the chances of hurting yourself and others will decrease.

reply to post by enchantress62


ok i undertsand and i will take more care in what im doing i will try to learn more before doing anymore readings, you have not wasted your breath and now i understand what your getting at, i cant change who i am, but for some reason i dont think that its truelly all that bad in the end ^^

most people have said in there lives that they wished they were someone else, but ive allways looked into the mirror and ive allways wanted to be me...random talk coming in there ^^

what i mean is, for people like me its not easy to take others advice im too carefree and headstrong but i will do as you've suggested ^^

peace out

reply to post by Richard.M.J.Palmer


RMP, you are absolutely not bad! Magic is not bad, contrary to popular opinion. I've used magic and had great results that really did help ppl. In a world full of chaos it's nice to know we have some margin of control, but even control can be dangerous when used inappropriately. There are books out that educate you on how to properly use magic, here's a few I've read. "Write your own magic" by Richard Webster, "Everyday magic" by Dorothy Morrison, and because it tells you what magic is and what you should do to use it properly read, "Wicca the complete craft" by D.J. Conway. Anyway good luck to you, and watch that spirit. My experience with spirits is that they are usually trying to tell you something. Once you figure that out, they go away.

reply to post by enchantress62


Ok i will and thank you for your advice

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by Richard.M.J.Palmer
6: Circumstances surrounding you now that seem of improtance or - im a tarrot card reader, but thats about the only thing

Ah, some occult affiliation. I'm sure this answers a lot more than you may have initially realized.

Actually, the most telling thing to me is the agegroup. It isn't unusual for teenagers to explore the world around them and the worlf beyond. Tarot aren't demonic devices, as far as I know, and are reportedly very good for focusing the user's mind, allowing (that is as in permitting) their own openness and psychic skills if they have any to function.

Let me start by reiterating that I'm only stating my views and opinions from here on. I'm not a trained psychologist, nor am I a trained psychic investigator. What I know, I know because I've known people. The rest I merely deduce and suspect. I may be right or wrong and you must, in the end, judge for yourself. I only aim to do no harm. Please stop me if I appear to be failing in this last ambition.

There are a few purely psychological reasons I can think of why these things are currently happening to the OP. There is a definite disturbance in his life (to which he himself alludes) which needs to be dealt with and the girl seems to represent that nurturing side of your own personality. If this were a dream I were analysing, I'd say that if you recognise her, if her features seem familiar or her clothing reminds you of someone, the personality of, or possibly a significant event that included, that person is what is important. Colour is important in your life, so I would ask you, if this were a dream, to say what association you make between the girl's clothing and your own synaesthetic reactions to that colour scheme.

But this is a reported and, on one occasion, shared sighting and that's where things begin getting weird. Unless you mentioned the original sighting to your friend, which would set him up for his own self deception which would then be reinforced by your reaction and each of you would in turn respond to the other's response, rather than to the ghostly figure itself; but this, I'm afraid, is among the millions of other things a trained investigator (which I'm emphatically not) would need to know more about.

What I meant about the "circumstances of previous sightings" was that, on any previous time when you experienced a sighting or visitation, were you going through a similar or different emotional state? Did you respond to that sighting as you have to this - i.e. more curious than concerned? Would you place that/those apparitions in a similar age-bracket or were they older/younger? Did they stop visiting of their own accord or did you reject them so they left you? Did your emotional/life situation change after the event?

I don't dismiss the psychic by any means, but the human mind has many safeguards and techniques of employing these. Again, if this were dream analysis, your emotional reactions at the moment of the experience (not as related afterwards) would be of primary importance in ascertaining the meaning. Dreams are the most personal and least deceptive experiences we can have.

But it's also well known that psychic phenomena also act on an emotional level - you feel fear, calm, curiosity or disturbance depending on the event - and these emotional reactions are very, very rarely wrong, so I'm relieved to hear that you approach this with curiosity, and not terror.

Final question: If you knew she'd never appear again, would you miss her and feel abandoned or be relieved and feel fulfilled?

BB

Originally posted by enchantress62
In all due respect Saint4God, this kind of comment is exactly why ppl in this site are always attacking you guys!

Hm? I'm not representing a group, with all due respect. Nor do I see why my response would invoke this kind of response.

Originally posted by enchantress62
Adding guilt to his already troubled mind isn't helpful, it's hurtful.

Where did I add guilt? When troubleshooting a problem it is best to examine all possible causes and rule out those that are 'not it'. Are you saying tarot cards are absolutely 'not it'? I have good reason to believe otherwise. Are you saying tarot cards 'do not work'?

Originally posted by enchantress62
Richard, I don't know you or what you have been doing with magic that might have brought this on, maybe nothing. PPL do get haunted and never do anything to insite such a thing, but if you are practicing magic then I hope you have researched what you're doing.

Ah, so you see a connection as well?

Originally posted by enchantress62
In Witchcraft you are expected to study for a year and a day before practicing magic. There is a reason for that. Magic is real, it's powerful, and it's a bit like having a dangerous tool in your hands. It can make your life easier if you know how to use it, but if you don't it can be dangerous.

...and you're not instilling guilt? Easy with the finger-pointing going forward.

Originally posted by enchantress62
That said, you have done nothing wrong!

Then why the warning?

[edit on 10-3-2008 by saint4God]

Originally posted by enchantress62Oh my! Ok, by playing with Tarrot cards and not knowing anything about them you are inviting trouble. If you don't even know what they are, then you obviouly don't know how to use them, and that's probably what's brought this trouble on you. Tarrot cards are a tool used for devination,

True dat.

Originally posted by enchantress62
and they are defenantly Pagan.

Pagans don't have the monopoly, sorry.

Originally posted by enchantress62
Look you don't have to adhere to any religious belief to use these things, but they do hold a certain power, rather that be a subconscious suggestion, or a spiritual power. The fact is they unlock a part of the brain that works with our imagination. No matter what you believe, you are playing with fire if you continue without understanding how to use them.

True again.

Originally posted by enchantress62
And just for the record, ppl perform magick everyday without knowing they are doing it.

This is possible.

Originally posted by enchantress62
There are rules to follow when using magick of any kind and by not understanding it you can release forces that you wont know how to handle.

Thank you for these acknowledgements, I think these are important warnings.

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by Richard.M.J.Palmer
6: Circumstances surrounding you now that seem of improtance or - im a tarrot card reader, but thats about the only thing

Ah, some occult affiliation. I'm sure this answers a lot more than you may have initially realized.

This comment was what I based my statement on. The underlying message I got out of this was, "There you go you bad boy, playing with tarrot cards, shame on you!" However Richard disagreed with me, he didn't see it that way, so there you go. lol

As for my advice to him, yes I too see the connection. And if you read all my posts I repeatedly tell him that he's not bad, but magic needs to be used only when you know what you're doing. It's a tool, and should be respected as such. He seemed to get it, and that's what's important to me. Sorry if I offended you, that wasn't my intention.

reply to post by hidatsa


Well to begin with, i didnt tell my friend about any of this until he started telling me what he was seeing, now in the dream it was dark and damp colours like gray and black and white, she was about my age and i have never seen her in my life before this incident, i dont think tarot cards are the reason cause ive been using them for 3 whole years and ive gotten pretty good

also i sometimes forget to mention things like, how i researched into tarot cards well before using them, my gran is a very spiritual person and she helped me with these kinda things. and the short leesh im on is for truenting do to pressure and stress of trying to learn french, im also dxlexic - hope i spelled it right -

Truenting - not going to school when i was supposed to.

reply to post by Richard.M.J.Palmer


Does your friend wear glasses or have long hair? I'm thinking repetitive peripheral image that his brain concluded was something spooky, since you were in a grave yard. Maybe his collar was flapping in the wind or something. Was what he saw to his left or to his right? In front or behind? Where were you in relation to (A) him (B) what he says he saw. I won't insult you by asking the other most obvious question, it's a red-herring, anyway.

The dream: Do you have any emotional association with black/white imagery? (First response is usually the most enlightening to this kind of question)

You can tell I'm not a professional because I think I have a simple psychological answer to these events already. A professional would wait until he'd collated all the evidence. Also, a professional would have proceeded throughout with an open mind, while I have finally decided, like Scrooge, that there is more of gravy than of grave about all this. Yes, it's complex, but complex happens, too, you know. I'd like to see the picture that started the whole thing off, though.

The tarot business is a side-alley of no consequence. Symbolism is subjective (as your studies must have shown you by now) and your gut reaction is probably more valid than any one else's interpretation (my own included), however learnèd or well-meaning.

I'd still love to see the photo, though. If it was one kind it would remove all doubt. If it was another kind, it would leave us with an unaltered feeling of agnostic ambiguity.

You're a smart cookie, that's for sure. All your messages ring with that truth. I think you may even have intellectualised yourself into dyslexia, because your spelling, while occasionally wrong, is very apt in places. Don't do yourself down. You're a smart guy and your truenting looks to me like you're trying (on some level) to pretend you're not.

I might be waaaaaay off the mark, of course, and I have no wish to offend and hope I haven't, but I get an impression you have the answers to this mystery already, though you might be suppressing them, consciously or unconsciously (standard psychic-reader disclaimer, I know, but I'm just hedging my bets cos I don't really know you at all).

I repeat, there is no offence or harm intended in any of this, however wide of the mark it may be.

Be kind to yourself and have faith in your humanity.


bb

reply to post by hidatsa


Dont worry im not offended in any-way shape or form, well my friend has short black hair and his coat hasnt got a collar, we both saw the same thing, it wasnt as if we were walking and turning our heads, we were stood still and looking at were the shadowy figure last was, and then we saw it jump to another gravestone. well my first emotional response to the colours i mentioned would probably be dispair, thats how i'd class those colours, i will try and get the picture, i know where it is but its on my friends phone, i gave it to him when i got a new one, so hopefully i'l be able to get the photo by this weekend.

peace out

RMP what are you looking for here? Are you trying to figure out how to get rid of this entity? Are you asking us how to better understand it? or are you trying to figure out how to use it?

In another thread someone mentioned calling upon a spirit to help them, and they said the spirit was of help initially, but one day they woke up to realize that it had essentially taken over their lives, then they had to get rid of it.

I've heard my share of stories from ppl who claim to have seen spirits, or see them regularly. Some ppl take it in stride and pay attention to what the spirit seems to want. Others are haunted by it's presence and just want it to go away.

I personally think it can be a good thing as long as it's not causing you harm or asking you to harm anyone including yourself. If this entity begins to ask that, then it's no longer a possitive force, even if it askes you to cause that harm for the benefit of the greater good. ie. it's not ok to bomb abortion clinics to save the unborn babies. lol

reply to post by enchantress62


i wanted a better understanding on why it would do this, i know its all possible but i wanted your oppinions so i could better understand the situation i may have gotten myself into.

Originally posted by Richard.M.J.Palmer
reply to post by enchantress62

 

i wanted a better understanding on why it would do this, i know its all possible but i wanted your oppinions so i could better understand the situation i may have gotten myself into.

Richard, personally I think you need to pay attention to this entity when it's around. Not in fear but with curiosity. Try to see if it's attempting to communicate with you, or if it's just watching you. Does it seem to be aware of your presence, or does it seem to be startled by you. I think if you have a better understanding of why it's here you'll know what to do about it. I've had limited experience with spirits myself, but I have had some. Recently I cast a circle and performed my spells then fell asleep without closing the circle. If you leave a circle without closing it, holes are left between demensions. Well during my sleep I had to use the bathroom and broke the circle, then when I woke up I had forgotten that I had cast it in the first place and left my room. I didn't think anymore about it until strange things started happening around my apartment. lights comming on by themselves, the computer shutting down on it's own, then turning on again by it's self, my car alarm going off without anyone around it, etc... I still didn't get it until I went to work a couple nights later and strange things started happening there. I was sitting outside on my break when a chair a few feet away from me suddenly moved about 2' on it's own. I thought at first it was the wind until the wind died down and it did it again. That's when I put 2 and 2 together and remembered the circle. Needless to say when I got home I closed the circle and had to do a cleansing spell of my place, then a protection spell in case it had negative intent.

Not all spirits are bad, and sometimes their presence is a blessing, but when you don't know for sure it's best to pay attention. Here's a link to a place that may be able to help you, at least they may know who can.
www.isisbooks.com... they are in Colorado, but I'm sure there is probably a phone number on their site. They helped me when I was experiencing things that I couldn't expain and was frightened. They do have news letters and such they can send you, but not knowing how your parents feel about this kind of stuff, you might want to think about that. At the very least they may be able to direct you to a resource person in your area.

reply to post by enchantress62


Thank you i'l check out the site, anyways il be leaving home in like 6 weeks so i guess it wont really matter about sending it, and from colarado, wouldnt it be a long way to england? lol