Until Theists can come up with Viable PROOF...What leg do we stand on?

I am performing my own personal research, and will be arguing with my own Logical and Spirtual side from this point on.

I ask that posters refrain from posting their own opinions, until I have given 'the go-ahead'', after which, ALL posts will MOST DEFINATELY be acknowledged, and answered to.

I Thankyou kindly, in advance.

***************************************

This seems to be a common theme amongst Atheists.

I have to be VERY careful in my wording from this point on, and encourage other posters of ATS to show the same.

What is being challenged here...is Faith vs Proof

The definition of FATIH.

1. confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.
2. belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
3. belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims.
4. belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty.
5. a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.
6. the obligation of loyalty or fidelity to a person, promise, engagement, etc.: Failure to appear would be breaking faith.
7. the observance of this obligation; fidelity to one's promise, oath, allegiance, etc.: He was the only one who proved his faith during our recent troubles.
8. Christian Theology. the trust in God and in His promises as made through Christ and the Scriptures by which humans are justified or saved.

And now...

The definition of PROOF

1. evidence sufficient to establish a thing as true, or to produce belief in its truth.
2. anything serving as such evidence: What proof do you have?
3. the act of testing or making trial of anything; test; trial: to put a thing to the proof.
4. the establishment of the truth of anything; demonstration.
5. Law. (in judicial proceedings) evidence having probative weight.
6. the effect of evidence in convincing the mind.
7. an arithmetical operation serving to check the correctness of a calculation.
8. Mathematics, Logic. a sequence of steps, statements, or demonstrations that leads to a valid conclusion.
9. a test to determine the quality, durability, etc., of materials used in manufacture.

On these two ideas lies the truth.

(to be continued)

reply to post by TheDuckster


Sorry, maybe it's just me. But I'm confused. What is it you're asking/looking for?

reply to post by chromatico


Chrom.

I'm doing a personal research, and have asked that other members withhold from their opinions, for such and such time. If you wish to contribute your thoughts, then by all means U2U me with your thoughts. I appreciate your thoughts!

Much respect to YOU.

Sincerely,

~Ducky~

I have no opinion! How's that?

Oh, other than I find it odd that you would want to turn this thread into a kind of personal blog. What's the matter, nobody visiting the ol' blog much these days? Yeah, they were a kind of fad there for a while until it was found out that most blogs are poorly written, not very entertaining, and generally pointless.

Sorry. As you were.

reply to post by Nohup

I ask that posters refrain from posting their own opinions, until I have given 'the go-ahead'', after which, ALL posts will MOST DEFINATELY be acknowledged, and answered to.

I'm still in the process of posting.

Most respectively,

~Ducky~

reply to post by Nohup


This has absolutely NOTHING to do with a PERSONAL BLOG

Your statement is IRRELEVENT.

~Ducky~

I personally, in my personal endeavers, haven't found, substantial proof to what 'atheiest deem' is prrof.

I'm am currently sourching for proof.

Edit to add I welcome proof from both sides.

~Ducky~

[edit on 29-2-2008 by TheDuckster]

Originally posted by TheDuckster
This has absolutely NOTHING to do with a PERSONAL BLOG
Your statement is IRRELEVENT.

Fine, then get on with it, man! Find the chase and cut to it.

We're an attention deficit disorder crowd. If you don't come up with something shiny to wave in front of us pretty quick, we'll wander off and nobody will read your manifesto, or whatever the hell it is you're cooking up.

Continuaion of my self-research:

Is Atheism Viable:

Is atheism viable?"

Response to criticism of "Is Atheism Viable"

unlike Mr. Lonovy who has stated in his original paper that I am an idiot.

Matt says he doesn't hear any evidence for atheism when he has discussions with atheists. I'm sorry that there are so many stupid atheists, then. There is proof against God's existance, even if Matt doesn't discuss it with atheists who know this. Is it enough to completely rule Him out? No. It is enough to say what He does and does not do. As I stated earlier, the only scientific place left for Him is the Big Bang. People used to believe He did many different things, until science proved that they could function on their own without Him. Is that not a good point against Him? It is hard to prove He doesn't exist, because it is proving a negative, but we can prove the negative that His Christian interpretation is false by proving positives - That things like evolution, abiogenesis, and an atheistic [without God] Big Bang can and have actually occured. These things are strongly rooted in truthful science. There is our best weapon.

Now on to the Believers:

What the Bible Says About What the bible says about faith

(continued)

I am compelled to project statistcs, and others thereof.

~Ducky~

I am looking for Theists and Spiriitaul remarks at this point......U2U?

~Ducky~

Am I a theist? I believe in one supreme consciousness, which envelops all dimensions and all universes. I have no problem calling this consciousness 'God'.

But are mainstream theists teaching the idea of God as a multidimensional, universal consciousness? I suppose not.

In any case, if I were to call myself a theist based on that definition of God, I would say that the 'proof' is existence itself.

People demand proof of God because they have an idea of a man floating in a cloud, some seperate entity which judges us etc. And they say, if such an entity exists, prove it.

Well: we can't. There is no such man floating in the clouds judging us and 'allowing' us to suffer. The very atoms vibrating within our material body are just another infinite expression of 'him'. He is impartial and incapable of understanding our definition of 'suffering' and 'faith'.

So really, there is no 'proof' for God because the mainstream concept of God is a farce.

In the concept of an infinite God, the 'proof' is existence itself. The scientist will claim existence is the cause of material and mathematical chance. What then sustains our universe as a material and mathematical object?

And on and on it goes. This is a heavy topic and I'm not sure if any answer will help you.

But you wanted to hear from a spiritualist so I did my best

By the way, if you expected me to U2U that entire post to you I'm gonna have to say you're wasting your time. This a thread and if you want replies you should expect people to make a real post! Cya.

reply to post by NewWorldOver


NewWorldOrder?

I had asked that posters would 'refrain' from posting their thoughts.

I very much RESPECT your opinion, and had asked, from the beginning, that, YOU'd and everyone else....to refrain from posting.

Sincerely.

~Ducky~



[edit on 29-2-2008 by TheDuckster]

Originally posted by Nohup

Originally posted by TheDuckster
This has absolutely NOTHING to do with a PERSONAL BLOG
Your statement is IRRELEVENT.

Fine, then get on with it, man! Find the chase and cut to it.

We're an attention deficit disorder crowd. If you don't come up with something shiny to wave in front of us pretty quick, we'll wander off and nobody will read your manifesto, or whatever the hell it is you're cooking up.

I'm beginning to really like you! You're a smart ass, but I kind of like your style.

Originally posted by TheDuckster
NewWorldOrder?
I had asked that posters would 'refrain' from posting their thoughts.
I very much RESPECT your opinion, and had asked, from the beginning, that, YOU'd and everyone else....to refrain from posting.

Yeah, what's the matter with you NWO? Didn't you see the dude ask that nobody post their opinions? What did you think you were trying to accomplish by posting your opinion in an Internet forum? The nerve!

Can't you see that TheDuckster is (from what I can gather) only looking for qualified quotes from expert sources, and only posted by him, not your stupid opinion? I mean, if you're not going to follow the rules clearly set down by TheDuckster here, then how is he ever going to make his point about Theists and how evil they are, or aren't, or something? Whatever his point is supposed to be.

If you feel compelled to jump in here and start posting what you think, then this is just going to be a complete exercise in futility.

I gave you the only real answer you're going to get.

Theists and Atheists alike cannot prove an infinite concept. There is no faith involved. We are incapable of including the concept of God in a scientific debate because it is beyond the scope of science and instruments etc. It is also beyond organized religions capacity to 'teach'.

Now obviously, none of this has anything to do with a conspiracy in religion and this thread will probably be moved to abovereligion or belowtopsecret. Cya

reply to post by Nohup


youtube.com...

~Ducky~

Well, I believe in God 100%. 99% sure it is Jesus but 100% sure God exists. I was waiting for you to give the go ahead.

YOU MUST ALL refrain from telling me your post.....unlless it is u2u.

~Ducky~

I have found that Theists and Ateiists alike, are presenting their theories abound.

This is a sensitive topic, and Im working with both sides at this time.

~Ducky~