How either Ron Paul Or Ralph Nader Could Win!

The GOP is pleased that Ralph Nader has joined the frey, envisioning a split occuring in the Democratic Party after the Superdelegates select Hillary. But should they be so happy?

On the subject of immigration, Nader or Paul have a huge hole to drive a truck thru the other two parties. All 3 major candidates support amnesty. Paul could say we should determine how many illegal immigrants we need and issue visas to that many and still retain his libertarianism. Nader could just say close the borders. I believe that would attract people from both parties and have a far greater impact on the election than any third party has since the early 20th Century. The American public is militantly anti-amnesty. When they discover items like this:
MojoPojo sends us this pamphlet from the Mexican government on how to sneak into America. No, I'm not kidding.
www.amren.com...

they tend to get really mad. If the candidate took a stand against amnesty and siphoned off 25% from EACH party (and such a stance would hit BOTH parties not just one) we could be looking at the emergence of a new party and the end of one.

reply to post by Psychomike

The GOP is pleased that Ralph Nader has joined the fray . . On the subject of immigration, Nader or Paul have a huge hole to drive a truck thru the other two parties. All 3 major candidates support amnesty. Paul could say we should determine how many illegal immigrants we need and issue visas to that many and still retain his libertarianism. Nader could just say close the borders. The American public is militantly anti-amnesty. When they discover items like this:

MojoPojo sends us this pamphlet from the Mexican government on how to sneak into America. No, I'm not kidding. www.amren.com ... they tend to get really mad. If the candidate took a stand against amnesty and siphoned off 25% from EACH party (and such a stance would hit BOTH parties not just one) we could be looking at the emergence of a new party and the end of one.

Well, it’s not that easy. This problem has grown gradually all of my adult life. I recall visiting in LA in the late 1970s and the common joke was that all the car washes in CA were operated by Spanish speaking Mexicans. But they were doing a bang-up job and had long lines waiting.

If there are 12 million undocumented workers in the US - how do we really know how many there are? - there is no way we can do anything to them they are not willing to accept. I have written elsewhere on ATS that it took the very efficient Germans from 1938 to 1945 to transport 6 million Jews to the death camps and Hitler gave those trains priority. And I pointed out that Amtrak does not run to Mexico. So that is an impossible task.

Another approach is indicated. Call it anything you want, but it cannot involve criminalizing the otherwise lawful conduct of 12 million people. Did you note the US recently passed the 1% level of adults in prisons and jails inside the US? Did you observe the story reported the cost to taxpayers of operating so many prisons is increasing 6 times as fast as our support of higher education? Remember the definition of insanity, you keep doing the same thing but you keep expecting a different outcome.

Well I happen to think every ethnic group that comes here has to face the same battle the Mexicans are going through.

But elections are not won on what is, but "change", "new" and of course, the famous 40 promises all the dems already broke.

I didn't say it could work. I said it could get them elected!

posted by Psychomike
I didn't say it could work. I said it could get them elected!

Touche!

I know it is a serious problem. I do not believe all or even most of the illegals want US citizenship. I do think all of them want to work here legally so they can come and go as it pleases them and their employers. I do not see how we would be worse off giving them all a BLUE Card (not a Green Card) and a social security number so we can get them contributing into the correct account. Let's face it, borders are passe.

My father's grandparents walked across a Texas border to have my dad, which made him a citizen. He would join the Navy and serve as a lifer. He thought it was a way to pay back the nation for his citizenship. When I was raised, everyone around me was told to only speak English to me.

Today we have a dangerous situation. Whole areas of major cities no longer speak english, refuse to learn it and refuse to become part of any melting pot. Part of the reason people are taking out immigration frustration with Mexicans when they didn't drop any planes into any buildings, is we are going far out of our way to not offend Moslems. In Chicago posters of Osama were for sale before 911. In Bridgeview Moslems burned flags at the post office after 911. Yet in Chicago, police can't hold illegal immigrants for Immigration. They can't even ask if they are here legally if they are caught in a crime!

So our attention turns to Mexicans. As we create mini- Beiruts all I can ask is, we return to Civics classes, and make people WANT to become U.S. citizens. This madness of scapegoating and refusal to confront problems isn't helping.

posted by Psychomike
My father's grandparents walked across a Texas border to have my dad, which made him a citizen. He would join the Navy and serve as a lifer. He thought it was a way to pay back the nation for his citizenship. When I was raised, everyone around me was told to only speak English to me.

1910-1920? What can I say? That was our thinking when your grandparents made their decision. All outsiders were to become insiders. Regardless. You could read that attitude to be one of superiority. “My way is better than your way.” America is a hyper-patriotic country. Many of us fall for the demagogues who say you must support the troops and by implication you must support me! However dumb that may be. For my part, I’ve never subscribed to the jingo “my country right or wrong.” It is not only (lazy) and thoughtless, but it is dangerous, leading to what I call the Nuremberg Syndrome. The Nazi’s excuse for murdering millions.

I have 3 Honorable Discharges. 2 from the US Air Force and 1 from the Army National Guard. I am a disabled American veteran. I think I am as patriotic as anyone needs to be. I don’t give a hoot if anyone wants to burn a flag. As long as it is their flag. Or stand on their head when the Star Spangled Banner is played. Or dodge the draft if they don't want to serve. Hey, it’s a free country, is it not?

Mexico is a special case. I don’t know much about Mexican history but I do know they have had three revolutions and the great majority of Mexicans ended getting screwed every time. Perhaps they will do better in their 4th revolution?

Today we have a dangerous situation. Whole areas of major cities no longer speak English, refuse to learn it and refuse to become part of any melting pot. Part of the reason people are taking out immigration frustration with Mexicans when they didn't drop any planes into any buildings, is we are going far out of our way to not offend Moslems. In Chicago posters of Osama were for sale before 911. In Bridgeview Moslems burned flags at the post office after 911.

I see that as a non-issue. After a while, we’ll learn some Spanish and they’ll learn some English. It is in both our interest to do that. 15 years ago when my relatives hired a day time in home babysitter for their 2 children, I urged them to hire a Mexican woman with 2 children of about the same age. Speak Spanish in the daytime, speak English at night. Needless to say, my advice was ignored.

Did I give a hoot if she was “legal” or not? Heck no. I cared about her character and her ethics. Not her legal status or her religion. I’m Protestant and she’d likely have been Catholic but that matters next to nothing in real life. All I can say is, “It was a singular opportunity missed.”

I suppose the Chicago flag burners were angry! Did it ever occur to anyone to ask them why? Or did they work for a flag company and their boss set them out to increase flag sales? Osama has told us 2-3 times what motivated him to do the Nine Eleven Event. We ignore him or worse, we laugh at him! Including our top leaders.

Yet in Chicago, police can't hold illegal immigrants for Immigration. They can't even ask if they are here legally if they are caught in a crime!

Immigration is a Federal problem. Chicago (and most American cities) have all the crime they can handle and more. Let’s not make trouble for ourselves where none exists. I do think the Federal government should pay a handsome sum to the border states to defray the extra costs they incur every day. Health care. Education of children. Food stamps when not working. And etc. (I do not limit my feelings to Mexicans but include all people who live south of the Rio Grand).

So our attention turns to Mexicans. As we create mini- Beiruts all I can ask is, we return to Civics classes, and make people WANT to become U.S. citizens. This madness of scapegoating and refusal to confront problems isn't helping.

On your very excellent recommendations I can fully agree. I’m afraid your good example will be lost on most Americans. Most don’t know where Beirut is, don’t know its tragic history and don’t give a DAM!

But if as I have already posted, many “illegals” do not want to be US citizens, but do want to be legal so let's register them and give them a Blue Card. Let us treat them as guests. My Iranian friend was about to invite me to visit his family in Tehran in 1979. He explained as the honored guest, I would share with his father the special choice food - a whole roasted lamb and I’d get one of the eyes and his father the other eye. I am sorry for the hostage episode but I am glad I did not have to eat an eye. Even a roasted lamb’s eye. I may be stretching it a bit, but in the Middle East, if you are invited into the house as a guest, you can have anything in the house except the owner’s wife. That is hospitality.

[edit on 3/1/2008 by donwhite]

In an election year your ideas would be suicide, but I think you are in fact close to the mark.

posted by Psychomike
In an election year your ideas would be suicide, but I think you are in fact close to the mark.

I’ve spent many a happy half hour in front of a smallish b&w tv screen watching Groucho! And yes, Karl is in serious decline as a respected writer on economics. I still share his view on religion as being the “opium of the people.” But we found out his mantra “from each according to his ability, to each according to his need” did not work. Well, I’m not sure it was ever really tried seriously, but in any case, we all “say” it never worked.

We use that - Marxism's failure - as an excuse that allows us to use millions of bushels of corn every year to make ethanol which contains fewer BTUs than are consumed to make and sell it, all the while 10s of millions of people have one or 2 fewer meals per day than we enjoy. It’s called priorities. And choices. That widely distributed Christian Children’s Fund tv ad says 27,000 children die every day due to lack of food or to diseases exacerbated by malnutrition. Every day. That’s 10 million children a year. We say, “Fill’er up, Jack!”