Is this what 9/11 Truth is all about? Think about it.

Originally posted by Wizard_In_The_Woods

No, something else was afoot on 9-11 at the WTC’s. People got sick too quickly and too seriously. They were inhaling ‘leftovers’ from the nukes used to raze WTC1, 2, 6 and 7.

Greetings,
The Wizard In The Woods


[edit on 2/29/2008 by Wizard_In_The_Woods]

People get bad knees from running on concrete over the years, too. But when a guy jumps off of a building and lands on concrete, he not just gets bad knees, his whole body sort of becomes this horribly disfigured blob of quality fertilizer........ the police must have put a special person-smashing device right below him before he jumped.... the damage to his knees just happened too fast!

Seriously - construction workers breathe in... what, very tiny amounts of that stuff on any given day? You're looking at maybe a few hundred parts per million versus several thousand parts per million at WTC ground zero....... the body can handle normal, 'natural' amounts of that stuff without many problems. But exceed certain parameters, and your body's ability to cope with situations decreases exponentially.

But there wasn't any plutonium or uranium present. There were probably elevated amounts of Radon in the atmosphere, because a lot of underground cavities that could have been collecting radon for God-knows-how-long suddenly got a chance to vent to the open atmosphere. But you're not talking anything 'funky' about the air, aside from the septillions of tiny shards of glass and dry-wall flying around all over the place (which act like lots of tiny little razor blades - fun stuff - and that's not counting fiberglass insulation and other niceties).

And, I'll move on to you, Griff, here in a minute.... don't feel left out buddy

Originally posted by Aim64C
But there wasn't any plutonium or uranium present.

Really?

Care to look into it before we start spouting things that are erroneous?

Look at the entire Chemistry Figure 1 from the USGS.

Uranium is very much present. I just couldn't post the entire chart.

pubs.usgs.gov...

Look and inform yourself.

And, I'll move on to you, Griff, here in a minute.... don't feel left out buddy

I'm all abuzz with anticipation.

Originally posted by GriffFor one. Thermobarics are not magical. Two: Placing them at the mecahanical floors would be my guess. As those floors were the most reinforced.

You would guess? You know, what if I accused you of murdering thousands (arguably millions - considering the ensuing events) of people simply on a "guess"? "Mr. Aim, how did Mr. Griff blow up the Blues Stadium?" "He used a temporal shifting device. I guess if you locate the flux capacitor next to the Tesla-Teflon coil, it would create oscillating neutrino waves that would cause the third and ninth quark rings of neutrons to behave erratically, destabilizing the mater and causing it to shift rapidly between states of mater and antimatter."

"And where is this.... temporal doohickey?"

"He hid it - he's lying - the 45*45 pixel youtube video proves it!"

C'mon, now - hell, at least try and impress me with numbers, lambdas, omegas, and logarithmic functions to show me how a few of these strategically placed bombs would take down this structure.

Third: The plane damage would be insignificant when planning a demolition. The only thing it would do is help the process by making more damage.

Assuming there was a demolition. And assuming one could use explosives that could be considered 'covert'.

Because everyone knows that the buildings would fall straight down right? At least that is what we are told why the buildings didn't tip.

Why would they tip? What would be influencing them to tip? Remember, it's all a steel-framed structure held together as if it were one contiguous entity. You should know what that implies if you're a structural engineer.

As long as the buildings are hit above the top mechanical floor, there really isn't that much precision needed. That's what? Some 20-30 stories worth of target?

Hmm.... possibly. But there again - what's your demolition method? Blow the hell out of the building?

Would they be observed through the dust? I can't observe what is going on in those buildings through the dust. Can you?

Um, yeah. Bombs have a rather distinct effect on enclosed structures made of glass..... even very small yield bombs. Especially your explosives with ridiculously high detonation velocities - which are the ones you need to maximized damage against rigid supports)

This is after initiation with thermate of course.

Riiiight.... That wouldn't be noticed before 9/11... not at all.....

You mean place the bombs after the plane struck? I'm talking about before.

I'm talking about any time. Just who is rigging these explosives?

There are people who had passes that have been caught in other nefarious dealings. Like the guy who had a basement level pass to "work on the sprinklers". Too bad the Port Authority did their own sprinkler work. So, what was he really doing there and who signed for his pass?

Sounds like standard security screw ups to me. Believe it or not, the people working on issuing various passes, IDs, etc aren't always the most security-conscious individuals in the world.

Chances are they were a former employee and wanted to try and exact revenge on their boss, or something.

Who says it has to be one of our countrymen? You believe in terrorists right?

So, why slam planes into the building and let most of the people escape when they could have just brought the whole works down with the bombs, alone - people and all? Or are you suggesting that the two were separate plots and just happened to coincide on the same day?

While it doesn't have to be someone from our own country - that is the general assumption and point of debate. Regardless, I have yet to see any real evidence to support a bomb, or anything like a bomb (aside from the planes smacking into the towers - although that was more of like a high-velocity inferno - not a bomb)

Do you really believe that with all the inconsistancies and coincidences, that the simplest explination is that 19 highjackers were able to inflitrate our trillion dollar defenses?

Um, yeah. People operate security equipment and enforce security guidelines. People forget the past and forget the importance of their duties, and tend to 'slack off' and 'let things slide' simply for the sake of getting things done quickly and efficiently.

And after the Clinton administration got done decapitating our military and intelligence agencies, we could have missed a full-out amphibious assault wave inbound on California pretty easily (exaggeration).

Or could they have been helped from the inside? Again, I don't mean good Americans. I mean double agents who have infiltrated our agencies. It wouldn't be the first time. Chineese agents downloading our nuclear secrets from our own computers comes to mind.

Wow, you get a cookie! That is why they call it a "Terrorist Cell Network" ..... ...Here...

Haven't read that all the way through - but it seems to address the main functionalities of terrorist cell networks. Sheesh.... now that we're on the same damned page.....

Why is this so hard to take one step farther and include the terrorists planting the bombs? I never said OUR countrymen did that. That is your assumption not mine.

Oy - it is my assumption that such was your assumption - as that is the common assumption made. It's also somewhat insinuated in a number of your posts.

Ah - stop thinking about how to counter what I've said - or how it doesn't apply - stop..... stop...... go back over what it is you are proposing, and have been proposing. Think about it.

Ok. So, I should just listen to you because you say so? OK.

[edit on 2/29/2008 by Griff]

No - I didn't say that - I said stop and reconsider and rethink your own standpoint. You could come to the same conclusion, or a different one, but I know how easy it is for people to run off, thinking a counter-response before the words of another have even fully processed in their brain (I'm guilty of it from time to time).

Edit: fixed quote tags

[edit on 29-2-2008 by Aim64C]

Originally posted by Griff

Originally posted by Aim64C
But there wasn't any plutonium or uranium present.

Really?

Care to look into it before we start spouting things that are erroneous?

Look at the entire Chemistry Figure 1 from the USGS.

Uranium is very much present. I just couldn't post the entire chart.

pubs.usgs.gov...

Look and inform yourself.

And, I'll move on to you, Griff, here in a minute.... don't feel left out buddy

I'm all abuzz with anticipation.

/Facepalm

Yeah, there are trace amounts of uranium in the room with me, now, too. My point was that it wasn't abnormally high levels of it in the air that would be consistent with any sort of nuclear fission device.

lol... wow... either you're a funny guy, or way too serious... or both.

Edit: on further analysis of the chart - it shows very elevated amounts of silicon and calcium - Silicon being the primary component of glass, and Calcium being synonymous with dry-wall/Sheetrock. I'd also postulate that the increased amount of sulfur would not be very healthy to inhale, either. I do believe certain isotopes of that can be radioactive (though I don't know what their half-life is, or how toxic they are considered). Though I know potassium is alpha radioactive (yes, bananas are radioactive), and that a nice isotope of lead found in coal and crude oil is radioactive (and very, very unpleasant).

[edit on 29-2-2008 by Aim64C]

Originally posted by Aim64C
Oy - it is my assumption that such was your assumption - as that is the common assumption made. It's also somewhat insinuated in a number of your posts.

I have never insinuated that it was an inside job. Just that it was covered up for incompetence. They don't want us to know that the terrorists infiltrated our government and defenses. That is my theory. That's it.

Originally posted by Griff

Originally posted by Aim64C
Oy - it is my assumption that such was your assumption - as that is the common assumption made. It's also somewhat insinuated in a number of your posts.

I have never insinuated that it was an inside job. Just that it was covered up for incompetence. They don't want us to know that the terrorists infiltrated our government and defenses. That is my theory. That's it.

Well everyone who has half a sense of how such organizations work knows that they have various cells located all over the world an inside of our government and agencies.

That is why things like Echelon have been stepped-up, and the CIA has been getting pumped back up to snuff after 9/11. Before 9/11 - the CIA had been scaled back to something equivalent to a weather report on the activities of other countries - a rough guess of what was going on. We believed that the threat was over after the collapse of the USSR and the fact that Russia no longer proved to be a threat to our intellectual security.

It's not unlike the spy games of old, now - where we have operatives in their organizations and they have operatives in ours, and we try to play the game of finding out who is an operative, and then decide whether or not to blow their cover, or try and use them - feed them information and guide the enemy into a trap.

Although if you are wondering how China got our designs for nuclear weapons - I'm sure if you crack open a Nuclear weapon, there will be "Made in China" stickers plastered all over the damned thing......

I bought a candle last night and was shocked to see that it was made in the U.S. I'm so used to all of our goods being made by other countries.... it's no wonder they have half our dang weapons - they probably make a good 70% of them.

And our civilian laptop computers are more powerful than the ones used in any of the jet aircraft today. I mean, shoot - the AWG-9 - the F-14's unparalleled radar capable of Scan-While-Track, was powered by a mil-spec 8080! The 8080pwns all! lol (you might not understand unless you're a computer electronics guru.......)

Anyway.... I forgot where I was going with this.........

Originally posted by Aim64C
Anyway.... I forgot where I was going with this.........

Happens to me all the time too. LOL

Too much stuff going on with answering on this forum board. It's easy to get lost within a conversation and who we are talking to.

[edit on 2/29/2008 by Griff]

Uranium is very much present. I just couldn't post the entire chart.

Come on Griff - you should know better than this. Uranium is present
in small amounts in granite, also clay which was major component of
cement and tile is the result of chemical weathering of such minerals
as feldspar or mica. Guess what granite is made up of feldspar and mica
(along with quartz) so isn't unusual to find traces of uranium or thorium
in such samples.

In a building like WTC granite panels are often present in lobbies as
wall or floor panels. One must consider the presence of uranium/thorium
traces in minerals used in the cement.

Before jumping to conclusionshould consider altenative sources before
running off with half baked paranoid fantasties....

reply to posts by thedman and Aim64C


You have to analyze the USGS dust analysis a bit more than just talk about uranium in granite and such like.

The major components of the dust werethe friables: the drywall and the spray-on fireproofing. Take those amounts away and the relative amounts of exotics--and of iron and copper as well--go off the charts for what is left.

Exceeding strange.

USGS attributes the presence of iron and copper to structural components, pipes and wiring in their own analysis. But just how does a building collapse create such significant amounts of iron and copper dust?

Drop that copper pipe or wire or piece of steel ad infinitum from the height of the top of the WTC--heck, batter it with other pipes and I-beams on the way down all you want--and it is not going to turn to dust.

Drop that copper pipe or wire or piece of steel ad infinitum from the height of the top of the WTC--heck, batter it with other pipes and I-beams on the way down all you want--and it is not going to turn to dust.

You would be right if all that happened was someone dropping a pipe
or wire from top of building - what happened was lot more violent and
chaotic. Have a swirling mass of debris as floors collapse into each
other, objects violently slam into others as fall 1000 feet. Bits and
pieces are going to knocked off and abraded as debris crashes down.
Would expect to find dust from steel (and alloying elements) and copper,
along with lead/tin from solder.

Originally posted by Aim64C

This is after initiation with thermate of course.

Riiiight.... That wouldn't be noticed before 9/11... not at all.....

Remember the 3-day shutdown the weekend before (I think it was) 9/11 when they had "contractors" in to "do maintenance"?? The same weekend the sniffer dogs were removed from the building for the duration??

Too many co-incidences for my liking.

reply to post by mirageofdeceit


Mirage..
please provide documentation to show this 3 day shut down. You wont be able to, because it didn't happen.

Also, the dogs that were removed were extra dogs, that were there due to recent bomb scares at the WTC. Security dogs were there full time since 1993, and had their own kennel in the sub basments of the towers.

Please do a google search for "Sirius", the bomb snigging dog that died during the collapse.

Thank you



[edit on 2-3-2008 by CaptainObvious]

reply to post by thedman


Actually, there'd be more kinetic energy transferred to something that is dropped 1100 feet from the air, than there would be something dropping 12 feet at a time for 1100 feet (progressive/pancake collapse).

Not to mention all the energy used to dustify the concrete taking away from the total energy.

reply to post by CaptainObvious


CO,

Since you brought up Sirius. Just how many dogs were present that day? I have heard of ONE. Sirius. Was one dog able to smell the entire complex?

Sirius was in the basement checking trucks. Meaning that ANYONE could have walked through the front door with explosives without a dog smelling them.

reply to post by Griff



Griff ~

I don't know. It is also a poor attempt on your part at moving the goal posts. Mirage made an incorrect statement and I corrected it. If you wold like to debate on the likelyhood of the planting of explosives, death rays, nukes, or anything like that, please start a thread... i will be more than happen to add to it

thanks dude

CO

Originally posted by Griff
reply to post by thedman

 

Actually, there'd be more kinetic energy transferred to something that is dropped 1100 feet from the air, than there would be something dropping 12 feet at a time for 1100 feet (progressive/pancake collapse).

Not to mention all the energy used to dustify the concrete taking away from the total energy.

You made want to read and join in on this thread, Griff:

Momentum transfer in WTC1 revisited
forums.randi.org...

Originally posted by jthomas
You made want to read and join in on this thread, Griff:

Momentum transfer in WTC1 revisited
forums.randi.org...

Second post in there explains it all.

All of the columns of some floor did not just magically disappear to initiate the theoretical gravity-driven collapse. This is the fundamental absurdity of the Bazant model. So, the Available Energy value of 1,180 MJ has to be discounted in a meaningful way for any of this to be taken seriously.

Mr. bofors is right on the money.

Let the record state that Griff has decided to punt rather than expose himself to an actual debate on the merits.

And here I gave Griff the benefit of the doubt that he was interested in the truth of wherever the evidence led.

Quel dommage.

reply to post by jthomas


I have read the Bazant report. They start off with the assumption that the cap fell (how that happens without ALL the columns being severed at the exact same time is beyond me....or you) a full floor's worth to produce that kinetic energy. This beginning assumption would be erroneous to anyone who thinks about how steel behaves.

Why should I go any further? First assumption is erroneous. Therefore, the entire conclusion resulting from that assumption would be erroneous.

Hail Mary and TOUCH DOWN!!!!

I fake punted there.

Originally posted by jthomas
Let the record state that Griff has decided to punt rather than expose himself to an actual debate on the merits.

Who do you speak to? Are we in a court room? "Ladies and gentlemen, let the record state". BS. Get off your high horse.