Saudi men arrested for 'flirting'

Saudi men arrested for 'flirting'

news.bbc.co.uk

Prosecutors in Saudi Arabia have begun investigating 57 young men who were arrested on Thursday for flirting with girls at shopping centres in Mecca.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Damnnn i can't stop laughing!! This is just plain crazy...

Whats next? Getting head chopped off for looking at a female?

These guys are just tooooo strict... A westerner would commit suicide living in a country like this.





news.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

But it's their beliefs. We have no right to laugh at what someone else believes in, no matter how arcane it may seem.
Considering more than 1/3 of the Western society believes that some bloke from some book who claims to have made the universe is telling the truth, or something along those lines, we are hardly in a position to judge others.

reply to post by watch_the_rocks


Yeh its not laughing matter as i realised later on...It was abit of a shocker when i read the headline at the start.

If people living there don't have a problem with it than why should we.

Originally posted by watch_the_rocks
But it's their beliefs. We have no right to laugh at what someone else believes in, no matter how arcane it may seem.

But that's the problem it's not their beliefs, it's not based from the Quran, it's all made up laws.

The men are accused of wearing indecent clothes, playing loud music and dancing in order to attract the attention of girls, the Saudi Gazette reported.

news.bbc.co.uk...

This is why there are no boy bands from the Middle East.

On a more serious note, this is the first time I've read of heterosexual males being arrested for something like this. It's almost always either women or homosexual males you read about. The female rape victim to be flogged, the two homosexual lovers being hanged together, a woman stoned for being pregnant outside of wedlock while you never hear about the man, etc.

Does anyone know what will become of these men? Like Phoenix said, I do not believe such laws are Koranic and truly, truly hope they won't receive a violent sentence. Even if it only comes down to their legal/moralistic beliefs, it is still saddening.

reply to post by _Phoenix_


All of our laws are made up too. I'm sure there's many who laugh at America's laws. One state you get a ticket for ingesting a natural plant and another state you might get confined for 10 years. Alcohol is an illegal drug in many countries, but here it's considered a legal beverage - unless your driving or underage. Some countries its perfectly normal to have sex with a 16 year old wife & have babies and some places you are jailed and branded a pedophile the rest of your life.

Funny most laws in most places have a good reason behind them, but the reason is often lost once it becomes a law.

^^ some states in the USA its legal to have a 14 year old girl firnd - where as others you`ll be locked up if she was 18.....

Originally posted by Harlequin
^^ some states in the USA its legal to have a 14 year old girl firnd - where as others you`ll be locked up if she was 18.....

Yeah every heard about that guy who is 19 and his girl is 17, he gets arrested for that!

Crazy rules.

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
But that's the problem it's not their beliefs, it's not based from the Quran, it's all made up laws.

Alot of what is made out to be "Islamic" beliefs, such as the Burhka, or the strict sexual laws in Saudi, are actually cultural beliefs and traditions that stem from pre-Islamic beliefs and society. Christianity was very much the same only a few decades ago. People were seen as being rude for going outside without a hat

Problem is, they got carried over and some of the Islamic laws have been "misinterpreted" to give a desired result. Religion is control, remember that.

Originally posted by _Phoenix_

But that's the problem it's not their beliefs, it's not based from the Quran, it's all made up laws.

Hmmm interesting...

Muslims follow the Sharia Law and it is compiled from the hadiths.Hadiths are something that the Prophet Muhammad did and those actions/speech he did were recorded by (sahabas) companions.

There is alot of strength to the hadith in order to uderstand it would be nice to read up on the basics of Quraan.

For example:consider this

Quran give a direct command to wash the feet to make wudhu..where as we get ahadith from more than 70 Sahaba (companions) that Prophet Muhammad did masah over khuffs for his wudhu. To think that, that many sahaba(companions) gathered to make a lie upon Prophet Muhammad is not plausable.. so such a hadith gains a right to have strength to abrogate the ruling of Quran. Now if somone is wearing the khuff the direct commandment of washing the feet doesnt hold true since it has been replaced by something totally different established from Rasulullah.

However one needs to read up on these in more detail to get a total idea..

According to Quran you need to fulfil the obligation of washing your feet to obtain Wudhu. If you make masah on your feet then your wudhu will not be correct. That comes in the definition of washing.

When hadith says that Rasulullah made masah on khuf.. it was without any substanciation from quran and in direct contradiction with the rule that to obtain wudu one needs to wash the feed.. not only pass a wet hand.

So according to Quran, A person who is wearing the khuff or who is not wearing khuff, who is old or young, who is in safar(traveller) or muqeem.. in all condition he has to wash the feet to attain the wudhu.. while from the hadeeth we see that in you are wearing khuff then you can merely pass wet hands on the khuff and it will suffice for washing the feet.

This means that this mutawatir hadeeth changed the ruling of the Quran.

Example of abrogation of the Quraan by mutawatir hadith:

The Quraan ayah states that if your wives were involved in adulterous acts then you should imprison them in their homes.

This rule was abrogated by the mutawatir hadith stating that married people who commit adultery will be stoned to death.
(al Fusool fil Usool Vol.2 Pg.365)

time change and peoples change - take victorian england - quenn victoria refused to believe 2 women could `love` each other so lesbian wasn`t even recognised - and the age of consent was lower than now.

I knew I was opening up a window perhaps I should'nt have when I wrote that.

You seem a little too excited about that prospect Harlequin, maybe we should put you on a watch list. j/k of course.

[edit on 23-2-2008 by verylowfrequency]

Originally posted by AshleyD

The men are accused of wearing indecent clothes, playing loud music and dancing in order to attract the attention of girls, the Saudi Gazette reported.

news.bbc.co.uk...

This is why there are no boy bands from the Middle East.

Just saying, to be more specific, your wording is a bit wrong, I don't know about saudi arabia, but there are a lot of music artists male and female in the middle east, possibly not in saudi arabia, I don't know but, there are a lot of famous singers out there.

Just some handy info there for ya.



[edit on 23-2-2008 by _Phoenix_]

reply to post by Attari


I believe the hadiths are not true to their words, kind of like chinese whispers.

There are many things in the hadiths that are the opposite of what the quran states, therefore what would you believe the quran by Mohammed, or the hadiths written 200 years after his death! Crazy.





[edit on 23-2-2008 by _Phoenix_]

reply to post by verylowfrequency


erm ok

many americans are ignorant of what is legal or not in other states ; the most recognised one of course is age of consent (no point in quoting something less `direct` like differences in driving rules is there) - SC and MI its 14 , whilst in calif its 18 ; gay relationships (mm and FF) are illegal in alot of southern states , yet legal at 18 in calif , 16 in indiana and 13 in new mexico!

alot of variety within the USA - the world average is 16 btw

reply to post by _Phoenix_


The hadiths werent wirtten 200 years ago.They were written by the companions of Prophet Muhammad as he spoke and acted.

Its like someone carrying a video recorder and recording all your actions etc.. everyday during your life.Thats the same as the a few companions just recorded what Prophet Muhammad did during his lifetime.

Proof of the importance of the Sunnah(what Prophet Muhammad did) from the Qur'an itself:

1.Allah says (interpretation of the meaning): “He who obeys the Messenger has indeed obeyed Allah...” [4:80] Allah described obedience to the Prophet (peace be upon him) as being a part of obedience to Him. Then He made a connection between obedience to Him and obedience to the Prophet (peace be upon him): “O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger...” [4:59]

2.Allah warns us not to go against the Prophet (peace be upon him), and states that whoever disobeys him will be doomed to eternal Hell. Allah says (interpretation of the meaning): “...And let those who oppose the Messenger’s commandment beware, lest some fitnah (trial, affliction, etc.) befall them or a painful torment be inflicted on them.” [24:63]


3.Allah has made obedience to His Prophet a religious duty; resisting or opposing it is a sign of hypocrisy: ”But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith, until they make you [Muhammad] judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission.” [4:65]


4.Allah commands His slaves to respond to Him and His Messenger: “O you who believe! Answer Allah (by obeying Him) and (His) Messenger when he calls you to that which will give you life...” [8:24]


5.Allah also commands His slaves to refer all disputes to him: “... (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger...” [4:59]

6.Allah also calls all people who accept Allah but refute the Messenger as 'Real Kafirs': “Verily, those who deny Allâh and His Messengers and (those who) wish to separate Allah from His Messengers (by believing in Allâh and disbelieving in His Messengers), saying: "We believe in some but reject others": and (those who) wish to adopt a way in between. They are in truth (equally) Unbelievers; and We have prepared for Unbelievers a humiliating Punishment. To those who believe in Allah and His Messengers and make no distinction between any of the Messengers, We shall soon give their (due) rewards: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful.” [4:150-153]

The Hadiths have alot of strength themselves.For one to understand you have to read more in-depth about Islam to understand the whole thing.


[edit on 23-2-2008 by Attari]

reply to post by Attari


I said Hadiths were written 200 years after his death, not 200 years ago.

Yes the quran says follow mohammed, but isn't the quran everything you need to follow him!

The hadiths were written by other people when mohamed wasnt around, how can you trust their words, they can write anything they want!

The Quran even says that everything you need is in the quran, because the quran is whole and the word of god.

Here's a post I made before, you can read that if you want, instead of me writting it here again.

"
Hi Ashley.

I believe the hadiths are lies created by men who possibly hate women and dogs etc. I don't believe the hadiths represent much truth, The hadiths were written 200 years!!! after Mohammeds death, how can anyone say these are the words of Mohammed, how can muslims follow these hadiths more than the Quran. It's crazy, but it happens because of tradition, and follow the crowd type thing. They don't think for themselves.

Anyway to the point, all these crazy things you hear, all these crazy rules, they end up coming from the hadiths, suprise suprise, you cannot find anything like this in the Quran, for example stoning to death, not touching dogs, all these things about womans submission to her husband etc. They are not in the quran.

For example in the hadiths, it says you cannot live in the same house as dogs because angels wont come in.

BUT in the Quran there is a story about Mohammed sleeping in the same place as a dog, waking up with a dog beside them. haha what should we believe the Quran by Mohammed, or the hadiths by men 200 years later?

There are so many more things in the hadith that are the opposite of what the Quran shows. To me thats proof that the hadiths are lies created for men to have control over the people.

Anyway sorry for the long post, basically there are Hadiths about drawing being wrong, but there is nothing in the Quran. All the Quran states is that we should'nt worship Mohammed or anyone else, we should only worship God. Nice and simple."


[edit on 23-2-2008 by _Phoenix_]

reply to post by _Phoenix_


I said the hadiths were recorded while Prophet Muhammad was alive not 200 years after he passed away!!

Yes Quran is everything that Muslims need to follow but God sent Prophets from Adam to Muhammad to guide the humans practically.

Like i said before hadiths themselves carry alot of strength aswel because following hadith is basically following Quran which states to follow the Sunnah (what Prophet Muhammad did) in his life time.

I have done my research looking at the contradiction between Quran and hadith and it all made sense when i red more books and talking to Muslims with Islamic knowledge etc..

You just need to look into it properly than you will understand the importance of the hadiths.

If hadiths are wrong than that means Muslims who pray 5 times a day are all doing it wrong aswel! I dont think 1.4 Bil Muslims are soo dumb that they cant figure out right/wrong.

reply to post by watch_the_rocks


What are you talking about? I am an American, it's my God given right to laugh at others and point my finger!