Not everyone who calls on Jesus is saved

Originally posted by Anticipation of Peace
So therefore, no we are NOT saved by grace.

I, ABSOLUTELY, cannot believe, that you said what you did. I am blown away by your statement. You, who refers to himself a Christian, making an absurd comment like that, "We are not Saved by Grace." You have insulted the Spirit of Grace.

You fit the following scripture, as I have never seen anyone fit it:

Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee , and the other a publican . The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. (Luke 18:10-14)

What you see is a comparison to LAW and GRACE. If you will notice, God was not even paying attention the Pharisee's prayer. The Pharisee was merely praying to himself.

The truth to the matter is this:

Matt 7

21Every One that write close the host to me, Lord (Self), Lord (Self), I will command enter being to the ever close lasting hell the superphysical; but he-I that do close my Conscious as the host the will my Father (Me) which is being the superphysical.


22Many will write to me being that day, Lord (Self), Lord (Self), have we prophesied being thy name? being thy name have cast out devils? being thy name done many wonderful works?

23Then will I-You profess to them, I-You ever knew you-Me: depart from me-You, the self (the ego) that work iniquity.

24There close fore who close so close ever understand close my Conscious as the host these writings mine-Your's, do close my Conscious as the host them, I-You will liken him to a wise man, which built his person up close on a block:

25The rain descended, the floods came (left), the enforcers blew, beat up close on that person; it (I-You) fell: for it (I-You) was founded up close on a block.

26Every One that understand close my Conscious as the host these writings mine-Your's, do close my Conscious as the host them, I will command be likened to a foolish man, which built his person up close on the sand (moldable block):

27The rain descended, the floods came (left), the enforcers blew, beat up close on that person; it (I-You) fell: great was the fall it (I-You).

28It (I-You) came (left) to pass (exceed, succeed, go beyond), when Jesus had ended these writings, the people were astonished at his (My)-Their (Your) doctrine:

29For he (I)-They (You) taught them as One having authority, as the scribes.

^^"What followed is the story, what proceeded was the glue."--2pac

Configured: ReQuest(ion) followed is the story, ReQuest(ion) proceeded was the glue.

^^The "I" on "I-You" wont stick because it was instead of is. Though the ReQuest(ion) remains still standing to the One way or the Other.

Here the problem. There are fakers ever in christianty. And on tv there is alot of them. When Jesus teach did he ask for money. When he gave worishop did he ask for money. Look at the christian tv shows and watch on how many times they ask for money. They even ask for a certain amount. Any they use scripure to ask for money.

antichrist all of them if you ask me. You can get on your knees and pray in a church, but does that mean you know your talking to God. You can ask forgivness but does that mean you know you did wrong that you need forgiveness.

BEWARE and I mean beware of the preach on tv that in the teach doing healing. Why are you ging to do the work of God in the church alone. Jesus did works outside and inside the church.

REMEMBER GOD KNOWS THE HEARTS OF HIS SON AND DAUGHTERS. He knows whos hearts are pure and for him. And some know God and Jesus, there just not enough.

Here the problem. There are fakers ever in christianty. And on tv there is alot of them. When Jesus teach did he ask for money. When he gave worishop did he ask for money. Look at the christian tv shows and watch on how many times they ask for money. They even ask for a certain amount. Any they use scripure to ask for money.

antichrist all of them if you ask me. You can get on your knees and pray in a church, but does that mean you know your talking to God. You can ask forgivness but does that mean you know you did wrong that you need forgiveness.

BEWARE and I mean beware of the preach on tv that in the teach doing healing. Why are you ging to do the work of God in the church alone. Jesus did works outside and inside the church.

REMEMBER GOD KNOWS THE HEARTS OF HIS SON AND DAUGHTERS. He knows whos hearts are pure and for him. And some know God and Jesus, there just not enough.

Originally posted by jdposey
reply to post by doctorex

 

I suppose it depends as to what your object of faith is.

But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ,.. (Galatians 6:14)

Men love to take the cross and add "works" to it, like the LAW. If in any of this there is room for me to say, "I" , then "I" have added to the cross of Christ. God doesn't leave any room for man except to begin in faith and end in faith:

For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

And as for works:

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Unless your focus is on the right object of faith, the Cross of Christ, any vain attempt outside of that is just that, vain. I love the way God set the plan of salvation up! Men love to abide by Laws, because it is something they can say "I" keep, "I do." But the way God devised the plan of salvation, working from the inside out, only He can create the will and only He can provide the ability to do that will, which He created in you. Like I said, From Faith to Faith.

Most people don't even understand what grace is. Grace is God choosing you, not you choosing God. That is the grace of God, that he loved and called you while you were still a sinner. Simply growing up in a Christian household and going through the motions and even believing is not being called.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Romans 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Once called, you have to make a choice, to obey God in order to be chosen.

Matthew 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

Grace isn't you being able to do what you want and simply saying "it's okay, I'm under grace".

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

What is sin?

1John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

If the Law was completely done away with, then so was sin, and you are now free to whatever it is you choose. Why not, we're all "under grace" right? As paul said, "God forbid"!

As for works...

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works.

James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

James 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

And I hope this supply the Topic to.

Warning Against Rejecting Wisdom
20 Wisdom calls aloud in the street,
she raises her voice in the public squares;

21 at the head of the noisy streets [a] she cries out,
in the gateways of the city she makes her speech:

22 "How long will you simple ones love your simple ways?
How long will mockers delight in mockery
and fools hate knowledge?

23 If you had responded to my rebuke,
I would have poured out my heart to you
and made my thoughts known to you.

24 But since you rejected me when I called
and no one gave heed when I stretched out my hand,

25 since you ignored all my advice
and would not accept my rebuke,

26 I in turn will laugh at your disaster;
I will mock when calamity overtakes you-

27 when calamity overtakes you like a storm,
when disaster sweeps over you like a whirlwind,
when distress and trouble overwhelm you.

28 "Then they will call to me but I will not answer;
they will look for me but will not find me.

29 Since they hated knowledge
and did not choose to fear the LORD,

THE NEXT GENERATION THE YOUTH OF THE NATION

Originally posted by doctorex
What is sin?

For whatsoever is not of faith is sin. (Romans 14:23)

This is applicable to every case in regard to the walk which we have been called into by grace. Read my signature below. Your conscience doesn't remotely bear the facts of the cross and the effects of the atonement of Christ.

This is the ground I stand: You or anyone else who promotes Church of God doctrine, as TRUTH, will not convince me of anything. Herbert W. Armstrong, who was a False Prophet founded the World Wide Church of God, and any offshoots from that foundation ( World Wide Church of God) is unsound by way of doctrine.

As I have stated before, elsewhere, False Prophets do not sow sound truth by way of doctrine. Ronald Weinland, an offshoot of Armstrong, the same applies, as to any other branch of Church of God doctrine, based on the fact, the entire church and its doctrine came from the mind of a False Prophet, a documented False Prophet I might add.

No matter how convinced you, or anyone else may be- that you have the TRUTH, the whole TRUTH and nothing but the TRUTH, just the fact that False Prophets keep rising up out of that doctrine should convince you and anyone else of something, but, I wager, you and everyone tied to the doctrine, will continue to defend it as, truth, when it is clear that it has come from the mind of men.

Originally posted by jdposey

Originally posted by doctorex
What is sin?

For whatsoever is not of faith is sin. (Romans 14:23)

Yes we need faith, don't get me wrong, but how do we show faith?

James 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works.

Why do you only listen to the verses that at first glance seem to agree with your own doctrine, and seem to turn a blind eye to the verses that explain the ones you quote in further detail?

No faith is sin (Romans 14:23)
Faith is shown by works (James 2:18)
And what works? By obedience to God....

1John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Romans 14:23 and 1John 3:4 are saying exactly the same thing. No faith is sin, and you cannot have faith without works, which is not trangressing the commandments of God, yet by turning a blind eye to James 2:18 and 1John 3:4, you loose the meaning Romans 14:23.

Originally posted by jdposey
This is applicable to every case in regard to the walk which we have been called into by grace. Read my signature below. Your conscience doesn't remotely bear the facts of the cross and the effects of the atonement of Christ.

If you think that then you are judging me when you don't remotely know my conscience. I thank God everyday for his grace and for giving his Son for the atonement of my sins, without which His spirit could not dwell in me.

Originally posted by jdposey
This is the ground I stand: You or anyone else who promotes Church of God doctrine, as TRUTH, will not convince me of anything. Herbert W. Armstrong, who was a False Prophet founded the World Wide Church of God, and any offshoots from that foundation ( World Wide Church of God) is unsound by way of doctrine.

As I have stated before, elsewhere, False Prophets do not sow sound truth by way of doctrine. Ronald Weinland, an offshoot of Armstrong, the same applies, as to any other branch of Church of God doctrine, based on the fact, the entire church and its doctrine came from the mind of a False Prophet, a documented False Prophet I might add.

No matter how convinced you, or anyone else may be- that you have the TRUTH, the whole TRUTH and nothing but the TRUTH, just the fact that False Prophets keep rising up out of that doctrine should convince you and anyone else of something, but, I wager, you and everyone tied to the doctrine, will continue to defend it as, truth, when it is clear that it has come from the mind of men.

In this conversation I have quoted nothing but scripture, scriptures that disprove your doctrine of no need for works (so would that make you a flase prophet?) such as...

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Revelation 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

....yet you say nothing about those verses and deflect by going off into a rant about Ron Weinland and Herbert Armstrong. I'm not trying to convince you of anything, that is between you and God. May he bless you.

reply to post by doctorex

When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. (Matthew 25:31-36)

I believe the differing point between what I am converying and what you are conveying regarding works is that I associate the works which come out of our faith, like that of the above scripture, and you, on the other hand are perceving works, as in association to law, or, keeping of commandments. If you work in that manner, then the works you do will be reckoned as a debt owed to you.

I don’t doubt your sincerity where faith is concerned, nor your desire to please God. That is not the point. As for my continual, so it seems, pointing to Armstrong as well as Weinland, it is evident how they have conditioned your thinking toward scripture, especially in the area of works. Paul advised the Corinthians to examine themselves, prove themselves concerning whether or not they were in the faith.( II Cor 13:5) How was that to be done? Determining if Christ was “ within” them. It would be easy to look outwardly at ones own self and say, ‘I am in the faith because I am doing this, I am keeping this, etc.. But the true examination and issue of proving faith, rests within the individua,l and the effect of that power in regard to transformation of ones heart and the fruit being produced inwardly, working its way outwardly. That fruit, or, works, as James refers to it, is why he addressed the issue of what a pure and undefiled religion truly was. (James 1:27)

This verse is talking about False prophets and the people who fall for them.

"For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear."(2 Tim 4:3)


I would puit the wealth and prosperity preachers in that category and Binny Hinn,

Benny Hinn "stated clearly that he had seen saints ("dead saints") and that they talked to him, gave him instructions, and told him they were praying for him. This is clearly necromancy or communication with the dead. He went further to state that his necromancy was Biblically supported by Jesus Christ’s experience on the Mount of Transfiguration when Moses and Elijah talked to the Lord."

source

reply to post by Bigwhammy


Yes, Mr. Hinn, as well as a host today have transformed the gospel into a gospel of prosperity, and I have seen people receive correspondence from some of these people and it lends the idea that God functions around money and one's faith is established by their check book and giving. Kind of like twisting words to the point that a man's faith is measured by his monetary abundance.

Giving is indeed good, but when it comes down to the point of giving to get, which is basically the core of the prosperity message, it misses out on the true point as to why we give, out of abundance, to fill the need in another's life.

reply to post by heliosprime


This verse quoted being one of the lower forms of the higher law for the sole purpose that people might learn the necessity and requirement of responsible self action for their own self progression...

Within the higher law, ALL ARE SAVED, it is just a matter of their choosing when.

Use all scripture with all other scripture taken into account. One law can not stand without them all! And it is said we will have No Fear.

love first always,
Laon

When Jesus made this statement, he had just been expounding on various commandments and rituals. So, a person needs to implement his teachings, into their daily lives, so that when we call on him - he hears us.

We are accountable for everything. It's a command not to murder, but he says that we will be judged for even holding a grudge.

This is why he speaks to the fact, that the true path is so narrow. We must do the things that truly make the Father happy - and he likes things done in secret. We are to pray in secret, do charitable works in secret and fast in secret. And our reward is in secret.

ALL I CAN SAY IS "AGREED" YATADE

You have to be able to accept that things were added to the Bible by the Catholic church, like being baptized in order to be saved and other such things. Take a look at the last chapters of Revelation. There are those in the outer darkness, there are those who are allowed to leave the holy city, and Jesus mentions those who never ever leave the holy city. It is difficult to interpret, but what I see (and I do not say this is exactly what it means) that there might be several levels to being saved. And once a year, the leaves from the tree of life are distributed to those who live in the outer darkness for their healing, the healing of the nations. What I see are people who are saved from the Lake of fire, but who can never ever enter God's Holy City. They will be in eternal bad health, and those who deliver the leaves of healing are like Priests. "And I will make of you a kingdom of priests." Just consider this is all I ask. I've no idea if it is the exact case. This is what it looks to be. "I will cast that man into the outer darkness and there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." Those in the darkness will never escape it, but also they will never face Hellfire. So, those who obey God, get to go inside the city. those who are saved but do not obey God go into the darkness. All are saved, but they are divided by light and darkness in the New Heavens and New Earth. It is the only thing that makes sense, but, I am just a man. What do I know?

reply to post by Anticipation of Peace



"" Now, that is enough for me to know that He chooses us first. And that my friends is INCREDIBLE.""


So, you don't think it is possible for God to see what is in your heart and see how you act before He chooses you?

Originally posted by jdposey
This is the ground I stand: You or anyone else who promotes Church of God doctrine, as TRUTH, will not convince me of anything.

i never heard of this church, are they particularly radical?

As I have stated before, elsewhere, False Prophets do not sow sound truth by way of doctrine....

No matter how convinced you, or anyone else may be- that you have the TRUTH, the whole TRUTH and nothing but the TRUTH, just the fact that False Prophets keep rising up out of that doctrine should convince you and anyone else of something, but, I wager, you and everyone tied to the doctrine, will continue to defend it as, truth, when it is clear that it has come from the mind of men.

luke 13:[23] Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them, [24] Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

1 corinthians 5:[11] But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. [12] For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? [13] But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

ephesians 4:26 - 5:5[26] Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: [27] Neither give place to the devil. [28] Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth. [29] Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. [30] And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. [31] Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: [32] And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. [1] Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; [2] And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. [3] But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; [4] Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. [5] For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

jude [4] For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

acts 17:[30] And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

matthew 10:[22] And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

1 cor 9:[24] Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

1 peter 4:[17] For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

2 peter 2 :[20] For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

matt 28:[19] Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: [20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

john 15:[6] If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

there is enough scripture, both from jesus' mouth and that of the apostles that suggest that faith is not enough and that infact it is difficult to stay in good standing.

even jesus' parables of the watchman, or of the door that the man struggle through. what about the virgins waiting for the bride groom with their lamps?

its convenient to say that all you have to do is believe, but it is true, satan believes, but there is no indication he will be saved.

another thing to consider, if obedience in law is not required, then why were adam and eve condemned for disobediance? why would satan try to turn the congregation? doesnt satan try to make us disobedient?

its not a question of what church follows what. these are what the scriptures say.

What it means is that you better hope to hell you are on Jesus's good side... pardon the pun...

reply to post by miriam0566

i never heard of this church, are they particularly radical?

In my last post in the thread, Is Jesus God? I wrote about this kid at my work who was some kind of Pentecostal.
He wanted to use this man, Henn as proof that his religion was right.
He told me there is documented evidence that Henn had raised people from the dead.