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Anti Depressants, SSRI's, Suicides, Rash of Recent Killings

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posted on Feb, 16 2008 @ 05:29 AM
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I've seen the extreme example of antidepressant withdrawl firsthand. Before I became a police officer, I was a corrections officer with my department. This gentleman was arrested early in the morning (I can't recall exactly what he was arrested for). While they were on thew way to our jail, they told us that this guy had been taking antidepressants and had suddenly stopped and was prone to ciolence. He came in and we booked him in and took him back to his cell. He didn't give us a single problem. However, during the day, he snapped and hurt one of our CO's. It took about 5 or 6 police officers to get him under control. The thing that amazed me the most is that they completely emptied 4 cans of pepper spray on him (Fox 5.3, the strongest spray on the market i believe) and he didn't even feel it. One of the officers involved in the fight wound up having to take a medical retirement because the subject put his eye out with a broom handle or something.




posted on Feb, 16 2008 @ 07:47 AM
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From what I understand the guy who recently shot up the college in IL was psychotic, taking antipsychotic meds?

Those are very different from selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitors.

In most cases these drugs are like miracles, helping people function on some level.

Now that all of our stuff is being made in China, maybe our drugs are being made there too now.

The Chinese don't seem to care what they put in their products. That's what we get when we become a communist countries largest consumer.

It's as if we sold out to the Chinese. And our government doesn't really care. Only after something shows up on the TV news, then the government says it would look into it.

I think if there is ever the potential for a real conspiracy, it could involve having our food, clothes, products, and drugs manufactured by communist China.

Our government sold us all out to the Chinese.



posted on Feb, 16 2008 @ 08:01 AM
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Originally posted by WEOPPOSEDECEPTION
If you stop taking an SSRI abruptly you will go bonkers. Google "paxil withdrawal" for some interesting stories. The patients are not informed of this fact beforehand, unfortunately. I have seen people wind up in psych emergency units because of this.
The media is making it sound like it was the person's fault. If he would have just kept taking the drug for the rest of his life this would not have happened.


The recent shooter was taking antipsychotic meds? If he was a psychotic then the drugs are the only thing keeping him functional in society.

If he was only depressed than, that's very different.

You have to "taper" off all of the SSRI's. The doctors who prescribe should be the one's who warn and educate patients.

If you take them as prescribed, don't combine them with alcohol or other drugs, then taper yourself off of them, most people do great.

YOu hear these stories in the news most recently of the actor who sadly passed. Some people aren't informed when they are prescribed these drugs. So they take the SSRI's with alcohol, or sleeping pills, and sometimes other antidepressants or anti anxiety drugs. Those drugs have a synergistic effect when taken together. It's not like 1+1=2, it becomes 1+1=3.

Too much for the central nervous system.

That's why people on SSRI's should be monitored. But I don't think most are. They give those out like candy these days.



[edit on 16-2-2008 by Electro38]



posted on Feb, 16 2008 @ 08:22 AM
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The problem with the medical industry is, half they time they dont even understand the mechanism of action of a medication, just that it has an end effect.

Now tell me .. if you dont understand how it works, how are you going to know what its going to do to me in the long term, and what its gonna do if I quit taking it? give me a break. seriously, a popular antidepressent for example.. welbutrin, look it up. they dont even understand how it works on the brain! "The mechanism of action on humans is unclear, however..."

Now, one thing I wanted to mention was Benzodiazepines. Valium, Xanax, Ativan, Klonopin, all are members of this family of drug. Some may know them as tranquilizers or muscle relaxers, but theyre really for anxiety attacks and seizures and so forth. Anyways, most doctors dont even tell you that abruptly stopping the meds cold turkey will cause a life threatening state where you can have a seizure or stroke, or have a heart problem and die, it is called "Delirium Tremens", and its what happens to lifetime alcoholics who kick the drink, this is why they can get seizures too, same thing. Anyway, doctors never tell you this, and once you start taking it for a few years, you have to ween off so freaking slow or else itll make you stark raving mad. Little bits, like half a pill every few days until you eventually get to zero pills. Crazyness.

Now if you do cold turkey something like barbituates or benzodiazepines, it causes these life threatening conditions, but also makes the person extremely agitated, gives them hallucinations, lack of sleep, strange thoughts, paranoia, panic attacks, twitches, the shakes, near-sighted vision loss, and the list goes on. These symptoms can persist for up to 2 weeks if you have an obscene amount of medicine built up in your body over the many years. If you've been using 3 years or less at a reasonably low level, they make only persist for one week.

Often times, Benzodiazepines get grouped under "Anti-depressants" when they are really just a type of CNS depressant. If that kid had been in a very heavy benzo/barbiturate withdrawl, it very well could've made him temporarily insane enough to perform this killing. What happens is, your brain stops producing its' own natural tranquilizer chemical. This chemical, known as GABA, is responsible for many functions, including sleep, relaxation, clear thinking, pain relief, good mood, the list goes on. When your body doesn't produce it, you become the opposite of all those, so unrelaxed, not clear thinking, lots of tension/pain/stress, horrible mood, incredibly hard depression as if the world is just .. crushing you, its quite profound and will make you come to tears for seemingly no reason. Does it sound like I've been through this before? Lol..



Originally posted by WEOPPOSEDECEPTION
If you stop taking an SSRI abruptly you will go bonkers. Google "paxil withdrawal" for some interesting stories. The patients are not informed of this fact beforehand, unfortunately. I have seen people wind up in psych emergency units because of this.
The media is making it sound like it was the person's fault. If he would have just kept taking the drug for the rest of his life this would not have happened.


It also would've never happened if he never introduced the drug into his body on a daily regimen. This is why is takes a couple weeks for some anti-depressants to really work they say, because it has to saturate your brain totally so to speak, so that you have quite a bit in your blood at all times. This corroborates all of my information, it's so sad. And see, it happens with SSRI's too. Paxil as he said is notorious for this, so is Zoloft.

Be wise, my friends .. just say NO to Benzos. They make kicking Heroin look like a walk in the park? Lol.

[edit on 2/16/2008 by runetang]



posted on Feb, 16 2008 @ 08:29 AM
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reply to post by runetang
 


Wow, I haven't seen some of those words since Pharmacy school.
St. John's University

You got it doc.

[edit on 16-2-2008 by Electro38]



posted on Feb, 16 2008 @ 08:41 AM
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Somehow I think putting the blame for these rash of killings and suicides on anti-depressants is over-simplifying the issue. You're not taking into account environmental factors. By that I mean stuff like the neighbourhood these individuals belong to, their socio-economic status, their relationship with other people. You might argue that if that's the case, then why aren't other people from similar backgrounds 'going postal'? Bear in mind that they might just be undiagnosed, or that they are less unstable. Also bear in mind that because these individuals on anti-depressants are unstable and/or have other mental problems, that's why they were prescribed the drugs in the first place.

In short, I think the drugs are just one of the many factors to consider. It can be said that they are just a plug or a patch to a deeper underlying problem with society as a whole.



posted on Feb, 16 2008 @ 08:57 AM
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reply to post by Beachcoma
 



You're right. Your environment plays a huge factor in your psychological well being. But most of the time your environment only plays a significant role during early development, when you're a baby.

Most people who suffer from some type of psychosis first exhibit signs in their early teens. Many times (mostly) psychosis runs in the family, someone somewhere in your family also suffered. It's mostly genetic. The same with clinical/chronic depression.

But, the recent shooters all came from decent homes with supportive families. If you look into it, you'll see their environment had nothing to do with it in most cases. It's a genetic illness.

I think your environment as an adult influences illicit drug and alcohol use, which can then trigger a genetic predisposition to psychosis or depression. But environment alone would not cause psychotic behaviour. (In my humble opinion.)

You've brought up the eternal question of "nature vs. nurture"








[edit on 16-2-2008 by Electro38]



posted on Feb, 16 2008 @ 08:57 AM
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Brooklyn College of Pharmacy. Great profession to be in right now. Big pharma has done such a great con job on the public that the number of prescriptions keeps growing by leaps and bounds. Keep em' sick and keep those drugs flowing, boys!



posted on Feb, 16 2008 @ 09:04 AM
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[edit on 16-2-2008 by Electro38]



posted on Feb, 16 2008 @ 09:13 AM
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They do not work because of many factors. The main factor of why they don't work is due to the fact that the triggers that cause the depression in the person (seeing a certain person, seeing a certain place, having to do a certain thing) is overriding the supposed 'effect' on the brain.

I myself have tried 6 different combinations of anti-depressants with no success and I realized that my emotional triggers are to strong for the drug. Emotions are a tricky thing and i understand what those people went through before ending their existence and it is not very pleasant.



posted on Feb, 16 2008 @ 09:23 AM
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reply to post by xion329alpha
 


I think that's a big part of the problem. These drugs don't actually change the situations that the person is in. And those situations are usually the cause of the stress/anixety/depression that these people are feeling. Really you can just think of these things as painkillers. They don't get rid of the problem, they just cover-up the bad feelings associated with the problem.



posted on Feb, 16 2008 @ 09:26 AM
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I got out of retail pharmacy after 12 years. Didn't like arguing with customers about their insurance copays all day long.
Now I'm in hospital pharmacy. Don't have to stand all day long, no customers. All I do is type orders into a computer and schmooze the nurses. Fifty bucks an hour and jobs galore.
Yeah, a lot of chemistry for nothing. I had done all of mine previously at Stony Brook where I took a biology B.S. and found it useless for job seeking.



posted on Feb, 16 2008 @ 09:45 AM
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reply to post by Realtruth
 


Very well thought out thread!


I believe that a lot of these drugs are highly dangerous.
I remember back when I was in high school and wellbutrin came out on the market and my doc put me on it for depression.
It had the complete opposite effect of what it was supposed to.
I became violent and easily angered.
It was really weird, because while I was on the stuff, I didn't think that my behavior was bad.
It just seemed to come naturally.
Then a friend of mine pointed out the difference in my attitude since taking the drug, and I freaked out and stopped taking it.
Eventually I went back to my normal self and in retrospect, I realized how dangerous that stuff was.

I just thought I'd share my experience with you all in the hopes that it might help someone someday.

(oh, consequently, you might want to check out my sleep driving thread because it relates to this topic. www.belowtopsecret.com...)





posted on Feb, 16 2008 @ 09:45 AM
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Very good thread... It is becoming more and more evident that there is a very dark side ot antidepressants.



posted on Feb, 16 2008 @ 11:05 AM
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Originally posted by Electro38
You've brought up the eternal question of "nature vs. nurture"


That wasn't my point. My point is that blaming it on anti-depressant use deflects from the real issue -- that there is a serious problem within society. Blaming anti-depressant use is your proverbial "convenient scapegoat".



posted on Feb, 16 2008 @ 11:19 AM
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Originally posted by Beachcoma

Originally posted by Electro38
You've brought up the eternal question of "nature vs. nurture"


That wasn't my point. My point is that blaming it on anti-depressant use deflects from the real issue -- that there is a serious problem within society. Blaming anti-depressant use is your proverbial "convenient scapegoat".


Well, what I meant was that your post, and my reply to it has inadvertently brought up the question of environment, social or economical (i.e. your argument), and genetics (my argument).

Hence, nature vs. nurture. (Nature = genetics; Nuture = environment)

I should have said I brought up the eternal question by way of my reply. My apologies.

I did understand what you're saying about the evironmental factors, and using drugs as a convenient excuse.



[edit on 16-2-2008 by Electro38]



posted on Feb, 16 2008 @ 11:35 AM
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I was on and off meds...mostly on, for about 6yrs. I disagree that people taper-down, or off, and do just fine. They only do 'fine' if they come-off after productive therapy, under the care and timing of a professional. An exception might be if they happen to hit that 'sweet-spot' between cycles...otherwise, the original symptoms will be patiently waiting in the wings. If an acute bi-polar decides to solo-off meds...schools out, it's back to mania, or depression...most riki-tik. Before they know it, they'll be strapped-down to a gurney channeling Moses again, and wondering what all the fuss is about.

After the meds begin to take effect, and people begin to feel better, there is a strong tendency to believe that perhaps they aren't needed anymore (the reality-testing I referred to earlier). It was at this juncture, in my infinite wisdom, that I cold turkey'd several times. I never experienced 'dangerous' withdrawal symptoms...just an uncomfortable mind/body sensation that dissipated after 5 or 6 days. Eventually, what I did get was depressed as hell...I'd get back-on.

You know how folks joke around; Hey dude, did you forget to take your meds today?
Well, my significant-other asked me that question repeatedly, only she was serious. If I missed a day or two (which I often did), she could tell immediately...I couldn't. In my opinion, people that live alone...loners on meds, are at a real disadvantage, especially without professional supervision.

This whole new psudo-industry...the evil off-spring of a marriage between pharmaceutical companies & Madison avenue is another story. Parents that treat emotionally neglected children like they suffer from a Valium deficiency, should be dealt with severely.



posted on Feb, 16 2008 @ 11:45 AM
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reply to post by OBE1
 



I was taking wellbutrin back in 2000 for anxiety attacks, along with clonepin. I wasn't depressed, but just had anxiety attacks.

I tapered myself off both only after about 3 months. And never needed them again.

The wellbutrin was a weird/scary med. At one point about 1 month into the drug I thought I was having a stroke. And I said that's it.

The clonepin really helped me. But it can be very addictive.
If you don't have supervison/monitoring you could be in big trouble.

But I think the point people were making is that whether you do well or not afterwards it is better to taper off the SSRI drugs, rather than stopping cold since it could make things worse.

Your real experience is more than mine, so what you're saying holds more water. Appreciate your insight.


[edit on 16-2-2008 by Electro38]



posted on Feb, 16 2008 @ 12:05 PM
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reply to post by Electro38
 


I guess we each have our own story Electro38, each as valid as the next to the folks that lived them. I happen to have the genetic component, in combination with a bit of trauma. The important thing is...we're still here


Thanks for responding, and thanks to Realtruth for starting this thread. Good to dump some of this stuff occasionally.

Peace/o



posted on Feb, 16 2008 @ 12:06 PM
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The monoamine hypothesis (chemical imbalance in depression) is just that, a hypothesis. It has never been proven scientifically. Big pharma like to present a disease state to the sheeple as a simple mechanism- for which they have the magic cure. Depressed? Oh, you just have a chemical imbalance. Heart disease? Your cholesterol is too high.
What is known is that taking SSRI's causes your serotonin receptors to down-regulate, or shut down in response to being flooded with excess serotonin. When the drug is stopped these receptors need a lot of time to readjust.






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