How does the Catholic Church get away with it?

Why is it that the Catholic Church can “make up” its own rules and make the whole Christian world obey?
A few examples that initially come to mind are

1. No meat on Good Friday
Many Catholics take this to the extreme of every Friday. It is my understanding that this was initialed to boost the failing fishing trade in Italy. Good Friday is merely an extension of Passover (which is the day Jesus died symbolically as the “ultimate sacrifice”) and on Passover we are meant to kill and eat a lamb (Meat yeah?)

2. Praying to Mary and the saints.
Many Catholics have been known to pray to Statues of Mary and the various Saints. Does this not go against the second commandment?

3. Purgatory
Although not practiced so much these days, the Catholic Church once had the practice of selling passes so people can “BUY” their way out of Purgatory and into heaven. Jesus said non get to heaven but by him not BUY him. This was just another get rich quick scheme by the then broke church.

Please correct me if I am wrong on these and by all means please add to the list if you think of anything else.


[edit on 14/2/2008 by VIKINGANT]

The many different forms & I say "FORMS" of Christianity has their own system of keeping their members in line. For myself I'am a born again Southern Baptist, We have our own hang-ups.
However as a good friend of mine reminds me we are not to judge people. The important thing is that as Catholics they to have accepted Christ. [meaning they will go to heaven] so why torment over the little things

Don't forget the greedy roman catholics with all their ancient treasure that they keep to themselves. Religion should not be classed as a charity.

1 Ti 4:3;
"Forbidding to marry, [and commanding] to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth."

"3. Sensuality leads to false spiritualism. Their own inward impurity is reflected in their eyes in the world without them, and hence their asceticism (Tit 1:14, 15) [Wiesinger]. By a spurious spiritualism (2Ti 2:18), which made moral perfection consist in abstinence from outward things, they pretended to attain to a higher perfection. Mt 19:10-12 (compare 1Co 7:8, 26, 38) gave a seeming handle to their "forbidding marriage" (contrast 1Ti 5:14); and the Old Testament distinction as to clean and unclean, gave a pretext for teaching to "abstain from meats" (compare Col 2:16, 17, 20-23). As these Judaizing Gnostics combined the harlot or apostate Old Testament Church with the beast (Re 17:3), or Gnostic spiritualizing anti-Christianity, so Rome's Judaizing elements (1Ti 4:3) shall ultimately be combined with the open worldly-wise anti-Christianity of the false prophet or beast (1Ti 6:20, 21; Col 2:8; 1Jo 4:1-3; Re 13:12-15). Austerity gained for them a show of sanctity while preaching false doctrine (Col 2:23). Eusebius [Ecclesiastical History, 4.29] quotes from Irenæus [1.28] a statement that Saturninus, Marcion, and the Encratites preached abstinence from marriage and animal meats. Paul prophetically warns against such notions, the seeds of which already were being sown (1Ti 6:20; 2Ti 2:17, 18)."Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary

The catholic church WAS the Babylonian church, The Two Babylons

reply to post by xion329alpha


So True. The Roman Catholic Church is the richest (cash and property) origanisation on earth.

barmshadow84,
I understand what you are saying. I myself am Lutheran (that is not why I am anti Catholic by the way) and there are many rituals I dont understand the meanings of but my main beef is the way they feel they can "own" the Christians. the above examples show how they manipulate to public in the name of God for thier own purpose. Particularly Eg 1 & 3. Do you eat fish on good Friday?

reply to post by VIKINGANT



In Revelation 17, The Mystery Babylon is described as having splendid wealth
and luxuries. She WILL control the Beast.


[edit on 14-2-2008 by Clearskies]

reply to post by VIKINGANT


I eat what ever I'm in the mood for,meat, fish apples ect.. I'm for letting the Catholics take this one. As a Baptist were blamed for a lot as it is.
THere was this guy in a neiborhood of mainly catholics who always barbuced on friday's which bothered the catholics. So they converted him. On the next Friday they smelled his smoker & called the priest who came by and saw this

reply to post by barmshadow84


Very Good

As I used to say to a Basptist friend of mine...Repent and be Baptist!

Originally posted by VIKINGANT
Why is it that the Catholic Church can “make up” its own rules and make the whole Christian world obey?

[edit on 14/2/2008 by VIKINGANT]

What on earth are you talking about? I was going to reply with a tongue in cheek retort about Jesuit overlords and how other denominations are coerced into doing their bidding, but I couldn't be bothered.

Seriously, what the heck are you talking about? Are Priests getting together in roving bands and beating up Ministers who don't fall into line?

Get real. If you are going to be a dedicated anti-Catholic bigot, at least put some effort into it. Get at least marginally educated. I don't agree with almost anything that Clearskies says on the topic of Catholicism, but at least I respect her scholarship.

The Lenten abstaining from meat is not mandatory and is in remembrance of the 40 day fasts of Christ, Moses and Elijah. Fasting prior to Easter was practiced by the early church fathers and became more formal around 325 ad.

No, asking Mary and the saints for their prayers is not in violation of the second commandment.

What are you discussing about purgatory? It's existence or plenuiry indulgences?

Eric

Originally posted by VIKINGANT
reply to post by xion329alpha

 

So True. The Roman Catholic Church is the richest (cash and property) origanisation on earth.

Really? How much money do they have? Where is it kept? Who is in second place? How much do they have? What about third place? Where are you getting your figures from?

Eric

Originally posted by barmshadow84
reply to post by VIKINGANT

 

I eat what ever I'm in the mood for,meat, fish apples ect.. I'm for letting the Catholics take this one. As a Baptist were blamed for a lot as it is.
THere was this guy in a neiborhood of mainly catholics who always barbuced on friday's which bothered the catholics. So they converted him. On the next Friday they smelled his smoker & called the priest who came by and saw this

Just to be sure here, that was a joke, right?

Eric

The Catholic Church hierarchy, especially Eugenio Pacelli, before and after he became Pope Pius XII, aided the Nazis. Indeed, Pacelli and the Church played a central role in making Hitler the dictator of Germany.

Hitlers mix of Church and State was highly influenced by the Catholic Church and you can see many symbols of the church in Hitlers government.

The Catholic Church has brought much violence in the world during it's reign of terror. Maybe not so much in the modern age but conquest for booty and power was very common in the Catholic Church going back to the middle ages.


Today, we see the Catholic Church as a part of the beast kingdom in revelations. Germany was the last beast kingdom which the Catholic Church backed. Germany was attributed to Rome and the revived Roman Empire along with the Catholic Church.

Today we see that same beast in America. The statue of liberties 7 rays on her crown which represent the 7 hills. The statue itself derives from Libertas, ancient Rome's goddess of freedom from slavery, oppression, and tyranny. There have been found Libertas temples on the Palatine Hill and Aventine Hill, two of the Seven hills of Rome on which ancient Rome was built.

The beast who was wounded by the sword but came back to life is the German Nazi movement which is now in America. All will be in awe when the beast comes back to life in America, the one who was wounded by the sword and did live. All will claim "Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with him?"

Many will run to the mountains and hills at the site of the beast. The beast will rise and make war with the saints, those jews and christians who will not give allegiance to the beast. You will not be safe even as Americans.

You can already see the Nazi playbook being carried out in the USA through it's anti-terror laws, removal of civil liberties, removal of habeas corpus, and an invisible enemy used to oppress the citizenry. This is nothing new, this is the revival of Rome. The next Pope will be Peter the Roman. The Catholic Church, the United Nations, the UK, the USA and various other governments will fall through a revolution of civil unrest. These organizations have been worshiping the Golden Calf and they will accuse you if you do not worship them, and they will setup their courts to judge you as if they are God.

[edit on 16-2-2008 by libertytoall]

reply to post by VIKINGANT


The church (body of believers) has become so distant from what it originally was, which is obvious by way of the multitude of doctrinal beliefs which exists today, all coming out of one book, that, what I am certain of is that deception is as rampant as it has ever been. So rampant and clearly obvious that one has to ask themself honestly, "How do I know I am not deceived or, have been deceive by way of church doctrine? After all, when Jesus was asked what would be the signs of his coming, the very first thing on His mind and out of his mouth was, 'Let no man deceive you."

The question then arises, how can one safeguard themself against deception? I had to ask myself this question. What I discovered was II Timothy 4:7 and Paul's FINAL words before being beheaded:

"I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:.."

That told me ONE thing and One thing only, when Paul came down to death, what mattered most to him was that he had fought a great battle throughout his life and at its end, he had not lost his faith. Paul did much throughout his life and could have bragged much, but that meant nothing at death's door.

So, what did Paul mean when he said, I have kept the faith? Was it a church doctrine he kept? No, he was found holding what he had begun with, his faith in the atonement of Christ and His shed blood. And that was what mattered most. And if you have walked this walk of faith for any certain amount of time, you will agree, with everything that goes on in and around you, it is indeed a battle to keep that faith centered in the cross of Christ.

But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. (Written by Paul: Galatians 6:14)

Yikes! I see that people are trotting out the old 'Nazi Pope' canard.

If you are interested in researched and unbiased fact as opposed to anti-Catholic bigotry, you may be interested in taking a look at the work of David G. Dalin.

Dalin is an expert on modern Jewish history, has a doctorate from Brandeis, is a Rabbi and is a professor of history. He is the author of numerous highly acclaimed books and has no dog in the fight either way.

Google him and take a look at his research and conclusions.

I am purposefully NOT providing a Catholic refutation to charges that the Pope or the Church was in league with Hitler.


Eric

reply to post by jdposey


Kudos JDPosey!

Sublime, IMHO



[edit on 16-2-2008 by deenamarie53]

reply to post by deenamarie53
[mor

I agree about jdposey...this is yet another well-pronounced, beautiful way to say what you mean. Very well written, yet again. I'm new to ATS but picked up on your posts immediately. Thanks for BEING what you believe.


[edit on 2/16/2008 by idle_rocker]

Ok here's my opinion based on my study of scripture.

Originally posted by VIKINGANT
Why is it that the Catholic Church can “make up” its own rules and make the whole Christian world obey?
A few examples that initially come to mind are

1. No meat on Good Friday
Many Catholics take this to the extreme of every Friday. It is my understanding that this was initialed to boost the failing fishing trade in Italy. Good Friday is merely an extension of Passover (which is the day Jesus died symbolically as the “ultimate sacrifice”) and on Passover we are meant to kill and eat a lamb (Meat yeah?)

Romans:14:13-15
Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died.

2. Praying to Mary and the saints.
Many Catholics have been known to pray to Statues of Mary and the various Saints. Does this not go against the second commandment?

I suppose it is idolotry but it is also Necromancy (conjuration of the spirits of the dead ). You don't know who's listening, or replying, you are likely to be deceived. Saints are dead people. Talking to dead people in necromancy, which is forbidden for Christians.

3. Purgatory
Although not practiced so much these days, the Catholic Church once had the practice of selling passes so people can “BUY” their way out of Purgatory and into heaven. Jesus said non get to heaven but by him not BUY him. This was just another get rich quick scheme by the then broke church.

Indulgences were a complete scam. Here's a true story from the reformation. The church sold a forgiveness indulgence in advance of the sin. Martin Luther buys one in advance, telling the bishop selling it to him, "I am angry and I am going to assault someone". The Bishop sells him the indulgence, and Luther smacks the Bishop upside the head, knocking him to floor. "Oh yes I forgot to mention it was You, how do you like it now?"

Purgatory the place is derived from an Apocryphal book, but it's probably a more accurate idea of the afterlife for the unsaved than eternal hellfire. Hades is a temporary place of punishment. It gets destroyed along with death (Rev.20:14)

Please correct me if I am wrong on these and by all means please add to the list if you think of anything else.

The idea of Hell being eternal torture. There is no single place Hell in scripture. There are places described like what is mistranslated "Hell" but they are not eternal torture. There are sheol, Hades, tartatroo, Gehanna, lake of fire. They are not one in the same. See my thread here





[edit on 2/16/2008 by Bigwhammy]

reply to post by jdposey


Absolutely! All this controversy can be fun to discuss, but when it comes down to it is our opinion. Hold on to the gospel, faith in the atonement of Christ and His shed blood, it is really all that matters in the end.

"If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing." (1Corin 13:2)

Remember the greatest commandment is: Love the Lord your God - Love your neighbor as yourself


[edit on 2/16/2008 by Bigwhammy]

You speak well and wisely Bigwhammy.

Thanks for your input!

Whatever of the Lord's (lost) flock remains let's not be guilty of scattering them. God forbid that I (or anyone should be guilty of this....preventing His calling of even ONE lost soul). I would rather die right here right now than to sin/OFFEND My Father in such a way.

I get shudders thinking about this.

Peace all.

All you guys need to stop persecuting the Christians. You're all terrible, immoral people in service to Satan. I'll pray for you! You're just like the Nazis. Next you'll be gassing the poor Christians in camps!

...Bwahahahaha.

For real, what the hell is this with people hating on the Catholics? Especially people who profess to not know much about Catholics, at that! Why does nobody gripe about hte Calvinists or the Baptists? 'Cause frankly there are crazier, scarier protestants than Catholics, I would think.