Space Station Crew Can Access Gun

Interesting article about a gun on the space station (provided by the Russians in a survival kit):

"CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. -- Astronauts aboard the International Space Station apparently have access to a gun.

Russian Cosmonauts carry a gun on their Soyuz space capsule, which is attached to the space station."

link to the article here: www.wesh.com...


On one hand, I can see the utility of a gun for the cosmonaut survival kit, but on the other hand it really rings incongruous to have a gun there. If an astronaut snaps, of course there are many things they could do to to jeopardize the life of everyone else.

What do you think, is it necessary to have a gun on the space station? Or even advisable?

mod edit to use "ex" tags instead of "quote" tags
Quote Reference.

[edit on 14-2-2008 by sanctum]

reply to post by G_Ponderovo


From what I understand, the gun is meant to be used after the capsule reenters the earth's atmosphere and touches down. Unlike American capsules that land on water the Russian capsules tend to land on, um, land. The gun is meant to be used by the crew for protection from wild animals and to potentially hunt for food in the event that the crew can't be recovered before the first nightfall.

Jon

Yep - what Voxel said... those crazy Russians favour land landings and I the past they have landed somewhat off target and had to wait a while for a pick up, Bears and Wolves would be more than happy to eat and hapless cosmonaut's, and some may want the capsule as a souvenir.

Also the Salyut 3 space station had a machine gun mounted on it for protection against those sneaky Yank's . The whole station would have to be aligned to attack any target so as retro's could fire at the same time ~ would be rather comical if those retros failed, be like in the cartoons where you fire a gun and go in the opposite direction.

This sounds like a very handy piece of equipment.

For decades, the standard Soyuz survival pack has included a gun. And not just any gun, but a deluxe all-in-one weapon with three barrels and a folding stock that doubles as a shovel and contains a swing-out machete. Three types of ammunition — rifle bullets, shotgun shells and flares — come in a belt attached to the gun.
www.msnbc.msn.com...

This link has a picture of Ansari practicing with a gun during her training to go to the ISS.

Direct training
This is carried out in the relevant environments; e.g. at sea, in the forest and the desert (the last at Kazakhstan). Here the crew can integrate what they have learnt and gain valuable practical experience. Some survival tasks learnt include learning to build a makeshift shelter, firing the TP-82 (ТП-82) pistol and firing off flares (smoke and light).
suzymchale.com...

Though the gun she is firing doesn't look like what's described in the other article.
Here's a wiki link to the TP-82, but it doesn't have much information.

en.wikipedia.org...

Okay now that is cool. Spade, Machete, Flair, Pistol, Rifle Vodka dispenser (well it should dispense vodka too IMO)

Originally posted by V Kaminski
The current publicly acknowledged STS shuttle orbiters in the NASA fleet have no weapons per se. None. No guns publicly other than a caulking gun called a T-RAD. Not on American craft or the ISS - no US guns.

Tools? Got lots, some "pointy and sharp" for working on machines and humans. Many instruments and devices with big capacitors too - zap! American manned launches before Shuttle did not have handguns either and were designed as "splash-down" vehicles - guns aren't much use bobbing around in the Pacific.

NASA does have plans for when an astronaut freaks out on orbit... Duct tape, tranqs (IM, IV and Oral) and bungees are the prescription. They have a full medicine cabinet. A Space.com article "NASA Has Plan for Unstable Astronauts". The article tells the story as far as NASA and spaceflight and handguns is concerned. I was unable to locate any policy documents at NASA on this to confirm. It also claims "During missions in 1985 and 1995, shuttle commanders put padlocks on the spaceships' hatches as a precaution since they didn't know the scientists aboard". The "new best way forward" is being worked up by NASA to respond to the recent Astronaut Health Study recommendations, "Findings of NASA Safety Review Following Astronaut Health Reviews". PDF's and video.

Do Russian Soyuz have weapons? Yes. A nifty sawed-off shotgun tucked under the commander's seat. There have been several types over the years. A Baikal double-barrel was the earliest and was made flight hardware after a Soyuz (hard-ground landing) crew was harassed by wolves.

More recently TTI-82 and TP-82 Russian 3 barrel scatterguns have been used. They all can fire shells, shot, or flares... the one three barrel deal has a small third barrel for something the equivalent of a 22 caliber-ish payload - not shot likely... a dart or bullet perhaps. A Russian handgun webpage with pics of the TTI-82 here. There are training photos of Anousheh Ansari discharging the weapon over at suzymchale.com and a piece on Soyuz Survival Training here.

Light Sabers? Yup. NASA will fly a "prop" this Fall according to The Flame Trench over at FloridaToday.com.

The Soyuz shotgun was last used on on the return of ISS Expedition 6 when the vehicle came up short 300KM and Cosmonaut Budarin discharged a few rounds to try and attract attention of locals while waiting for the ground support helicopters.

Here's a related ATS thread for those with an interest "Weaponry » Should the Space Shuttle Be Armed?"

Cheers,

Vic

I would not go into space without access to some sort of weaponry. They most certainly should have more than just a pistol up there. Yes it is always possible that someone could snap, but these people are more at home in space than on terrafirma. Have you seen movies like Alien? If some sort of mutant strain takes over the space station I would hate to see them fending off the danger with screw drivers and mre's.

Originally posted by antar
Have you seen movies like Alien?

Yes - and the guns did them a fat lot of good - all they did was risk the crew's life by burning holes in the ships hull

interesting thread... could u imagine someone using it in the iss boom... oops.... the entire thing is done for... even in airplanes at 30,000 ft they are a last ditch weapon and only fully certified air marshals and a few pilots even have access to them b/c they are considered to be so dangerous to the hull of the plane, even then they generally prefer rubber bullets so they don't puncture anything. now do that in a vacuum not ones best idea... anyways i do understand its for when they land which is actually a really smart idea, you don't want some of your smartest people getting eaten by wolves because they landed off target.

raptor1

Originally posted by Voxel
reply to post by G_Ponderovo

 

From what I understand, the gun is meant to be used after the capsule reenters the earth's atmosphere and touches down. Unlike American capsules that land on water the Russian capsules tend to land on, um, land. The gun is meant to be used by the crew for protection from wild animals and to potentially hunt for food in the event that the crew can't be recovered before the first nightfall.

Jon

They must have enough food on board since they're very small in size (capsules, pills) and if they were to disable someone on board for whatever psychological issues, butter to put them to sleep then to kill them! I'm kinda worried the gun wasn't made to be used on earth and maybe on some other beings if they were a threat to these astronauts.

Well, I'm sure they'd be able to survive with that Russian gun if they landed happened to find themselves on the moon, according to Lear
I hear those moon bears get some hungry.

Originally posted by Voxel
reply to post by G_Ponderovo

 

From what I understand, the gun is meant to be used after the capsule reenters the earth's atmosphere and touches down. Unlike American capsules that land on water the Russian capsules tend to land on, um, land. The gun is meant to be used by the crew for protection from wild animals and to potentially hunt for food in the event that the crew can't be recovered before the first nightfall.

Jon

For NASA's new spacecraft -- The Orion CEV -- They are considering having the capsule that return to Earth via a parachute and airbags onto dry land (no more splashdowns). It seems as if they are leaning towards the familiar water-splashdowns, but if they chose a dry-land landing, does this mean the Americans will also carry a gun for survival in case of an off-course landing or past nightfall recovery?

Here's a link to a story about the Orion Spacecraft's landing options:
www.space.com...

[edit on 2/15/2008 by Soylent Green Is People]

Originally posted by raptor1
interesting thread... could u imagine someone using it in the iss boom... oops.... the entire thing is done for... even in airplanes at 30,000 ft they are a last ditch weapon and only fully certified air marshals and a few pilots even have access to them b/c they are considered to be so dangerous to the hull of the plane, even then they generally prefer rubber bullets so they don't puncture anything. now do that in a vacuum not ones best idea... anyways i do understand its for when they land which is actually a really smart idea, you don't want some of your smartest people getting eaten by wolves because they landed off target.

raptor1

Actually on MythBusters they shot a hole directly into the window while pressurized to the same as cruising altitude, and nothing happened. The bullet penetrated both windows but there was no blow out or anything. They had to create a much bigger hole for anything detrimental to happen.

a gun has salt peter and can fire in space

The use of firearms can be avoided even in case of alien contact. Simply follow rule number 1.

Rule number 1. Never, under any circumstances, go looking for the ships cat.