Gut Feelings of SkepticOverlord and others

In August of 2007, a post that SkepticOverlord made caught my eye and I've thought about it frequently since then. I have a few questions and if SkepticOverlord or any “old timers” that were around then would care to answer them or comment on that time, it would be much appreciated. Of course, as always, I hope everyone will jump in with their thoughts.

Just to clarify: While Mr. Overlord's post was made in a thread concerning 9/11, THIS thread is not meant to re-hash the 9/11 theories.

Let's take a walk down memory lane...

The Pre-9/11 web was very different than the web of today. There were fewer people online, and "conspiracies" were not a popular topic. Nearly all of the handful of conspiracy-centric websites of that era are either no longer running, or no longer carry a record of pre-9/11 content.

For those of us who were paying attention to the dark web-corners where conspiracy aficionados spend time, we recall a general feeling of "something big is coming" in the months leading up to 9/11. In fact, there was direct speculation of a late-summer False Flag operation running rampant. And one should note that during this time of a more low-profile online stature of conspiracists, we had a unique mix of insiders and connected people providing information.

From this thread.

Questions:

1.Have you had that “general feeling” since that time? Before?

2.Do you think that, with conspiracy sites becoming more popular and living in a post-9/11 world, you would be able to have that awareness now?

3.Would you be willing to talk more of the “unique mix of insiders and connected people providing information”, how they played a role, and are they still lurking?

4.Other than what was mentioned in SO's post, what else set off the alarm bells? Was it one thing more than another?

5.Did you trust your instinct? Act on it in any way? Figure you were just being paranoid?


I think most of us have been on edge since that September, but it seems to me that recently more and more comments are being made about people having a feeling that “something is about to happen”. While I've heard these comments in the “real world” also, I was wondering if on a site like ATS this is the natural ebb and flow, or if maybe there is something substantial here.

otherhalf

I'm going to bump this for the morning shift.

Even if you are not an "old timer", jump in with your thoughts.

i'd like to see some thoughts posted in here as well since i'm relatively new to ATS. i think it would be an interesting conversation.

My feeling, as a UK-based poster, is that Skeptic's point may be valid, but there is a bit more to it than that.

Though conspiracy theories on the web have certainly increased their presence since 9/11, there have been other peaks in interest in the past. I remember whole lifestyle magazines given over to analysis of the X-Files during the peak of its powers in the 90s - it sounds like a relatively glib example but I think it's true.

I think what 9/11 did was offer a focus to the collection of conspiracy theorists that were on the net - or at least, American ones. It gave rise to thoughtful comment and reasoned debate since 9/11 touched so many modern political, religious, and social issues and made them much more "real". Prior to 9/11 there may well have been many theorists focussing on aliens or government coverups or arms deals, or what have you. But this was a tragic, unifying force.

With respect to Skeptic and those who felt they had a "something big is coming" feeling - I think anyone who was inclined towards believing conspiracy theories prior to 9/11 would be entitled to a (I believe disingenuous) feeling of "I told you so" about what happened - precisely because the more extreme sides of politics, religion and social issues (where conspiracy theories tend to be born and lurk) were suddenly right in front of everyones faces.

It seems to me that one of the central parts of any conspiracy theorist's beliefs is the feeling, be it hope or expectation or desire, for something to happen as a result of what they believe. People who believe in aliens believe that one day they will land and talk to them. People who believe in government conspiracies long for the big disclosure. Perhaps I am pushing it, but I believe this is akin to religious beliefs in Messiah figures - and proof of divine powers at work.

LW

I am no old timer, but I think that months prior to 9-11 we were barraged with news articles that warned of a situation on the horizon. As the time drew closer, we had more warnings from intel from other countries that were either ignored or downplayed. I have this amazing book that is almost exclusively comprised of news articles that prove that we were warned so many times of this happening that it is mind boggling. When you compare the articles and presidential staff quotes month by month, you see that they have lied to us numerous times. Here is the book THE TERROR TIMELINE.

Inside you will find hundreds of pages of these comparisons.
So in answer to your question, yes, our antennae were all up (be it by news articles anyway) waiting for the shoe to drop so to speak.
I think now a days you will have a much harder time decerning what to see as a pattern and what is misinformation because of our now increased paranoia.

I would urge you to check out the book. I grabbed it used for a few dollars. I feel that the real conspiracy lies within the whitehouse and what they were warned about versus what we were told.

Thanks for the responses!

Originally posted by LoneWeasel

It seems to me that one of the central parts of any conspiracy theorist's beliefs is the feeling, be it hope or expectation or desire, for something to happen as a result of what they believe. People who believe in aliens believe that one day they will land and talk to them. People who believe in government conspiracies long for the big disclosure. Perhaps I am pushing it, but I believe this is akin to religious beliefs in Messiah figures - and proof of divine powers at work.

LoneWeasel, I agree with you on this. I think a big reason for that is the time invested in beliefs. If you spend a big part of your life researching, talking about, worrying about and preparing for the situation or event, and then it's not true or doesn't happen, you're going to feel like you just wasted part of your life for nothing. Proof would be justification of that effort. (Oh man, now I feel like I should turn off the computer and cure a disease or save a kitty or something.)

shadow watcher, thanks for the book suggestion. I will check it out.

Originally posted by shadow watcher

I think now a days you will have a much harder time decerning what to see as a pattern and what is misinformation because of our now increased paranoia.

This is exactly what I was pondering when I started this thread. It seems like there is so much information to sort though lately (even within the last few months) and it's hard to determine what is, and isn't suspicious (especially with our increased paranoia, as you pointed out).

I continue to see more and more posts pop up with comments that people feel something is going to happen soon.

Anyone else want to jump in with their perspective on this?

Are people reacting to "signs", or just the usual CTer paranoia?

Ok, the word "conspiracy" at this point really bothers me.

There is no conspiracy. When you have facts and proof and so much obvious underhanding, futzing with your head, terror everywhere, things moving very rapidly towards that ultimate goal, it ceases to be a conspiracy and it becomes fact.

Paranoia? How can you actually look around you and call everything we are experiencing on a daily basis paranoia?? There's a very dark hand at work here and i will also get into this because if i dont its going to kill me.
BACK OPS.
SCHOOLS

What better way to instill fear into the hearts of people than to have shootings at schools, the very places where we send our young to learn and be protected while we work??? Double talk? NO.
I will tell you that pattern of "Johnny didnt take his meds" or he did take his meds and opened fire on an entire school (with a huge amount of guns, some legal, some not) is not KOSHER and it smells.
The end is always the same. They kill themselves.
ARENT ANY OF YOU HEARING ANY ALARM BELLS HERE???

You see, we should be afraid of Al Qaeda, the #1, #2, #2 boogeyman, bla bla bla....but they underestimate the masses. WE ARE NOT AS SCARED AS THEY WOULD LIKE US TO BE, so we are throwing stuff here and there to the public and getting them where it really hurts: CHILDREN.

For Petes sakes, i had a cowgirl outfit complete with 2 guns and i am not a murderess.

Someone has to start questioning these shootings in schools-
SOON, very soon!

Its beyond "gut" feeling, way beyond.

reply to post by otherhalf


I believe I've had this feeling of "something big going to happen" even years before 911. I think it has to do with the same kind of awareness as animals do when they feel an earthquake or or hurricane and yes, I've had it recently as well... only worse.

Hi DG
I have had that thought in the back of my mind for some time but what it tells me is that these events are being used as a tool towards the sitx.
I do not feel it as a Psy-op where some evil group is cranking them out Manchurian style. I think it is just an opportunity or a foothold. I think that the media is sensationalizing these atrosities and that this too is another foothold.

If a lockdown is on the horizon, the plan is long and slow in coming.
These opportunities are the advancements needed. Those in control know that we will eventually hang ourselves by our own actions. If they chip away at our freedoms in the name of security, we will beg our masters to protect us. If there is a NWO in reality, they will sit and watch the civil erosion until martial law is demanded by the citizens.

I think that there has been a confluence of events creating a great environment for the discussion of conspiracies.

ATS now is very different from the site that I joined, we've sort of shifted away from the more traditional conspiracy routes. The conspiracy du jours seem to be 9/11, It used to be FEMA, the reptilians, aliens etc. Just a long line of stories that get greater attention.

Phases really, an evolution some might say.

reply to post by otherhalf


I have to say kudos to otherhalf for his original post and I am intrigued Myself to see if SkepticOverlord actually takes the time to read and or post a response to it. I will give My own theory on what SO may have been referring to, and what degree I see that intelligence data flowing. I know speaking for Myself that I have learned what "someone in the know" knows is what's called "Open Source Intelligence". Some ways of collecting this type of intelligence information would also be collecting "F.O.I.A." requests, or Freedom Of Information Act requests, or through media sources like magazines, newspapers, periodicals, etc. The list of course goes on and on, and is why I selected to give you the reader of this post a link to it to find your own definition.

"Open Source Intelligence" is that tidbit of information that you or anyone who was listening when they weren't supposed to be, or someone was speaking and thought no one else had heard, or even posted to a conspiracy theory website like ATS here. The actualy source of that intelligence data that was collected is most likely something that should have never slipped out and the original person speaking about it has absolutely no clue that they were overheard. Remember the "Furby" doll that the Pentagon and Department of Defense had a hissy fit over? Well, they were afraid of something being recorded and then later disseminated by accident or even on purpose.

Of course, some "open source intelligence" is also known as disinformation. This would be leaked intelligence data that is let out "by accident" to see where it will go, how it will affect the "grapevine", etc. Basically it is known as something only partially true so that it is deniable if anyone comes back looking for a confirmation. This would be a game of Chinese Whispers like I have referred to numerous times in other posts here on ATS.

This is what I am considering as SO's tpye of source information from My own point of view and of course if he says differently, well then it's a perspective based soley on My opinion. Of course you must remember that everyone has their own perspectives, based on their own individual life experiences, and processes that information or intelligence dats in their own unique way.


[edit on 15-2-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Originally posted by Nerdling


Phases really, an evolution some might say.

from conspiracies to what is real obvious now?

Look, Did we walk on the moon? We dont know
Do aliens exist? Who really knows?!
Are the governments of the world desperate to have us begging from protection on our knees? YOU BET. HENCE, there is no conspiracy here.
Just fact.

Hello all, I do remember having a 'gut-feeling about 2-3 weeks before 911'. I believe, that, being in a state of heightened awareness;( Dictionary-defininition of paranoia), keeps us all frightened.As I sometimes think the gov.(or at least some parts of it), want us to be frightened.
At any rate; here is a link to a 'something's happening',Now,Type Article...
Anyone else have any INFO on this "meeting", that the article says took place "Nov.12th, at The United Nations N.Y. Offices"...
Please do respond, this is 'one of those articles', that does "heighten our state of awareness"...Let's see if this is TRUE, someone else 'know anything about this "meeting"???
Here's The Link. I admitt, it is a doosey if there is truth in it at all!
Peace+enlightenmenmt to all, LibBLVRdoc

www.ufodigest.com...










--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The year's hottest artists on the red carpet at the Grammy Awards. AOL Music takes you there

www.youtube.com...
This video, I offer to those who should know Ron Paul was Not On the 'ballots in many places on *Super Tuesday'...He is the only candidate who will even speak out regarding the New World Order; and his Name Was not included on many ballots...to me this is just another example of the 'puppetmaster's, pulling their strings'...I'm willing to take this guy's word on what "The Board of Elections told him, in reponse to his anger at Ron Paul Name NOT being included on the ballots. Let this young man speak for me, I believe he is telling the truth.
As for the HORRID school shootings, that is a symptom of the disease, yes!
As for my 'wanting a Ufo to come down +speak with me'...I don't want that;
I just want a Government that does not *Keep Secrets From "We The People"...nor pulls "false flag ops/Black-Ops Schools".
Yes, its already happening...open our eyes do I need SO, to tell me what has been happening in our Nation/World? I repsect him, but I can see for myself...I only wih to open the eyes of others.... www.youtube.com...

Peace to all, LibBLVRdoc

i would like to add something here, which i think is on topic, if not then let it be, but i remember before 9/11 that the internet was most definately more varied when doing research, ever since then i have noticed a steep decline in information actually made available to researchers, via search engines, and as for google these days, wheres the variety gone, a few years back you could google something with amazing results hence even the name applied to the method, google, u would say go and google .. so and so, etc etc, but now remembering how it used to be, actually makes me slightly angry, in that for new comers, they can and will see no difference, but i can, do and shall remember.

Sorry for going MIA on my own thread, guys. Kid with RSV doesn't leave much time for eating and showering, let alone playing on the computer.

I haven't had a lot of sleep, so I'm going to wait and reread the posts when I can think straight. I'm sure I'll have more to say then.

Was just wondering if there is still interest in this thread???





reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


Thanks.

I, too, was hoping that SO would see this thread and give us more insight.
(hint hint)

I'm not an ATS old-timer, so it was called, but i do remember haunting a few places on the web prior to 9/11.

2001 was a big time, we'd all just gotten over that y2k fiasco so everyone's emotions were a little frayed (possible psychological tactic?) - everyone had already been expecting the worst, so when 9/11 came by people kinda realised they could ease off when it came to their job security.

My belief is that the three years following 2000 have more or less shaped everything since then - that the issues and problems we face today not only could've been predicted, but also avoided.

It would be humourous to come back to this in 20 years time and as a group we decide that the 00s would be labelled the 'Fake Decade'.

edit; this post made me consider the psychological impact of the various prophecies actually - like how whether or not any false-flag operations in the future could coincide with one of the prophecies, in order to make the official story even more inassailable.

But n/m that - let's hear what SO has to say!

[edit on 21-2-2008 by Throbber]

I think that the heightened awareness was over whelming for the perpetrators of 911. Even the animals were acting strange at least 2-3 weeks before the event.

As people begin to awaken, it must be less predictable for the malevolent ones.